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THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:26:46

Newfie wrote:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-look-at-who-does-and-doesnt-pay-u-s-income-tax/

06156921-2E4C-4330-A685-55A347810311.png


As bad as that looks the 'effective tax rate' definition they use is bogus because a large number of those in the lower tiers get 'earned income tax credit' which results in a larger return each year than the total of federal taxes paid into the system. A large number of people on that end of the filing system only file because they get EITC, the taxes they pay in are minimal to start with and they automatically get them all back. If you qualify for a full refund for several years in a row you can apply for tax exempt status, at least you used to be able to back when I was just out of college and fit in that poverty range. If you throw all those folks who get back more than they pay in that 'share of taxes paid' and 'effective tax rate' for people making under $30,000.00 disappears. That in turn shifts the burden up slightly on all the higher income brackets.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 31 Jan 2019, 18:23:20

Tanada wrote:
Newfie wrote:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-look-at-who-does-and-doesnt-pay-u-s-income-tax/

06156921-2E4C-4330-A685-55A347810311.png


As bad as that looks the 'effective tax rate' definition they use is bogus because a large number of those in the lower tiers get 'earned income tax credit' which results in a larger return each year than the total of federal taxes paid into the system. A large number of people on that end of the filing system only file because they get EITC, the taxes they pay in are minimal to start with and they automatically get them all back. If you qualify for a full refund for several years in a row you can apply for tax exempt status, at least you used to be able to back when I was just out of college and fit in that poverty range. If you throw all those folks who get back more than they pay in that 'share of taxes paid' and 'effective tax rate' for people making under $30,000.00 disappears. That in turn shifts the burden up slightly on all the higher income brackets.
And you are also not considering the other taxes that a poor person can't escape. Sales tax on many things , cigarette tax if they smoke. , liqueur and beer tax if they want to drown their sorrows, property tax embedded in their rent, gas tax if they drive a car, stupidity tax if they play the lottery, etc. etc.
Even if they are on the dole how much of what they receive is funneled right back to one government entity or another?
It would not surprise me if the average poor persons real tax rate was in excess of twenty five percent.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 07:10:47

This could fit in the Trump Domestic thread as well.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/marc-th ... -president

. This is the problem with our politics today. Both sides have decided that the way to win is no longer to persuade those in the middle, but rather to throw red meat to their hardcore supporters and get them more worked up than those on the other side. Lost in the shuffle are millions of reasonable, persuadable citizens who are left to choose between two unpalatable alternatives.


I’ve been saying for a bit some bright light might try to jump into the middle and use that energy to boost himself. I don’t know if this is serious or not. Trump is essentially a third party candidate that bored his way through the Republican primary system. Maybe Schultz is onto something.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 07:57:47

Chicago columnist has a pretty good handle on the Schultz situation I think

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ ... story.html
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 08:25:37

Newfie wrote:Chicago columnist has a pretty good handle on the Schultz situation I think

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ ... story.html


His conclusions are nonsense. Schultz will pull votes from the Dems and they are quite aware of it. The last thing they want is a moderate in the race. The Democrat candidates are far left. Further left than even Bernie Sanders. If Schultz is a viable third party candidate, Trump wins easily.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 11:01:09

Maybe, maybe not. Trump won against a poor candidate. I think Schultz would mess with his strategy to win 2020. There are plenty of R’s who could also swing.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 11:15:43

I'm waiting for Nicky Haley or Jim Mattis to get in on the Republican side. I can think of a few other possibilities but once one enters the real debate will begin.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 11:37:23

No one, except that idiot Kasich perhaps, is even going to attempt to run against Trump in the Republican primary. Total waste of time and Trump has no problem with raising money.

You are going to have two choices. A far left loon or Donald J. Trump. Pick one.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 11:56:36

Cog wrote:No one, except that idiot Kasich perhaps, is even going to attempt to run against Trump in the Republican primary. Total waste of time and Trump has no problem with raising money.

You are going to have two choices. A far left loon or Donald J. Trump. Pick one.

If that stays the choice then the loon will win. But we will see. You repeatedly saying it will not make it so.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 18:35:43

Cog wrote: If Schultz is a viable third party candidate, Trump wins easily.


Unless Schultz wins.

There are plenty of Americans who don't like the Ds on the far left and don't like Trump on the right or whatever side Trump is on.

An independent candidate has plenty of room in the middle to run. Personally I hope Schultz runs in 2020. Trump said Schultz doesn't "have the guts to run"......I'd like to see Schultz prove him wrong.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 18:54:30

LOL I have no problem with him running. But why do you think the Democrats are screeching about it? They know full well which party loses votes and it ain't Trump.

Since I'm probably the only Trump voter and supporter on this entire board, I can tell you our loyalty and desire to vote for Trump hasn't wavered one bit. We will be there in 2020 again. You can call us right but that really isn't an apt description of who we are. We are a different type of voter. Something you people on the left coast, who ignore fly-over land, simply can't process. Its literally beyond your comprehension.

Which is why Ibon, Newfie, and a whole cast of others here refer to Trump supporters as racists, xenophobes, Nazi's, etc. Because in their world, they simply can't comprehend why a person would not only vote against Hillary Clinton but actually like Trump and what he is doing. Its beyond them. They live in a different world in their liberal thinking enclave, therefore anyone who actually likes Trump must suffer from some type of mental illness, be completely ignorant, or just be a racist.

This is why you lost. But you still can't process why you lost.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 19:49:25

Cog wrote:LOL I have no problem with him running. But why do you think the Democrats are screeching about it? They know full well which party loses votes and it ain't Trump.

When you're right, you're right, and you totally nailed that one.

...

As an independent, one thing that pisses me off a lot is when clowns claim that candidate "C" shouldn't be allowed to run because it will hurt party "P" (a major party, of course).

For Americans who claim to want freedom to make such claims is, IMO, outrageous.
Last edited by Outcast_Searcher on Fri 01 Feb 2019, 19:55:10, edited 1 time in total.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 19:53:30

Plantagenet wrote:
Cog wrote: If Schultz is a viable third party candidate, Trump wins easily.


Unless Schultz wins.

There are plenty of Americans who don't like the Ds on the far left and don't like Trump on the right or whatever side Trump is on.

An independent candidate has plenty of room in the middle to run. Personally I hope Schultz runs in 2020. Trump said Schultz doesn't "have the guts to run"......I'd like to see Schultz prove him wrong.

Cheers!

Given the choices, both the major parties are certainly deserving of having him run and win.

For the dems, it appears the goal is which candidate can propose the most outrageous tax raises, citing "morality". I thought "Thou shall not steal" was a thing, for some reason...

For the GOP, if no one will stand up to Trump, they deserve to lose.

I suppose I should be alarmed, but at this point I have so little confidence in the American political system, I just find it amusing -- like the world's biggest and stupidest clown car.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 19:57:42

vtsnowedin wrote:
Cog wrote:No one, except that idiot Kasich perhaps, is even going to attempt to run against Trump in the Republican primary.

Funny, because if Kaisch is an idiot, then Trump by comparison has the intelligence of, roughly, a Mollusk. At least a Mollusk wouldn't constantly lie.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 19:58:42

Which is why Ibon, Newfie, and a whole cast of others here refer to Trump supporters as racists, xenophobes, Nazi's, etc.


OK, youve got me here. I know I’m old but I don’t recall doing that. Please provide a link.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 19:59:37

What policies or laws have been enacted under the Trump administration that has you moderates in full melt down? Be specific. Is it Trump's desire to enforce border laws? Was it the tax cut? Or cutting regulations? Or getting the US out of bad trade deals?

There has to be something that Trump has done that is giving you moderates a case of the vapors. You sound like old women.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 20:01:48

Newfie wrote:
Which is why Ibon, Newfie, and a whole cast of others here refer to Trump supporters as racists, xenophobes, Nazi's, etc.


OK, youve got me here. I know I’m old but I don’t recall doing that. Please provide a link.


I can retrieve the whole exchange if you like. Ibon called me a racist and you said yep he is. When I challenged you to produce one single racist post I had ever made, you said "I'm not going to take the time to find one". You don't remember this exchange at all? I'll dig it up for you. But you might want to get tested.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 20:11:29

Ahh here we go Newfie.

healing-the-partisan-divide-pt-2-t73530-60.html?hilit=racist

Cog,

At one point there was another poster using your same avatar, can't recall the same ATM. Someone using that avatar went in a full blow racist rant one day, made a really nasty post. Then went silent for a couple of days thereafter.

Now I can't recall which poster it was and I'm not going back to find out. BUT folks could be excused for confusing the two posters using a single avatar. Mprobably a practice we should ban.

All that said there is something in your affect that does lead one to assume you have racist tendencies. Your posts have that "smell."

I know you have disavowed it in the past, but it lingers.


Still waiting for you to find that racist smell to my posts or perhaps an apology would do.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 20:16:15

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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 20:20:15

Cog wrote:What policies or laws have been enacted under the Trump administration that has you moderates in full melt down? Be specific. Is it Trump's desire to enforce border laws? Was it the tax cut? Or cutting regulations? Or getting the US out of bad trade deals?

There has to be something that Trump has done that is giving you moderates a case of the vapors. You sound like old women.

Ah, yes. If you want political substance, then claim that expressing a view you don't like is "sounding like old women". Because that says SO much about how right your position is. :roll:

1). Trump insisting on a wall is wasteful. It won't work, so it's stupid. It's just playing politics. Shutting down government for it is pure insanity. (If he'd go for a virtual (say, E-verify type with strong sanctions) wall by making it very hard to get US jobs by illegals, and actually disincentivize illegals from staying, I'd be behind that.)

2). I disagree with the way Trump is conducting trade policy with China. Harming the economy with little or nothing to show for it isn't making America great again. Who knows when or if anything good will come out of this? It's not like we can trust Trump's claims.

3). I completely disagree with the Trump strategy on climate change including the climate denial.

4). Between the tax cuts and spending, Trump is expanding government deficits. I disagree with any politician who does that.

5). And as a general principle (vs. a specific policy) I hate Trump's constant lying. When he makes HRC look like a truth teller in comparison, that's really, really bad.

...

That's off the top. Sorry if that triggers you, but in America, people have a right to different opinions.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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