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THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Amazon Update

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 04 Oct 2013, 12:21:29

Apparently the Ecuadorian govt was more interested in cashing in then protecting the environment. I suspect a philosophy we'll more commonly see from most govts as we roll further down the PO path. I'm sure they gave their best effort at extortion but it just didn't work. From RigZone:

"Ecuador (AP) — Lawmakers in Ecuador on Thursday authorized the extraction of oil from Yasuni National Park, a pristine Amazon reserve. The president in August announced that he was abandoning a unique plan to persuade rich countries to pay Ecuador not to drill in the Yasuni, saying wealthy nations had failed to pledge enough money. Environmentalists had hailed the initiative when it was announced in 2007, saying Correa was setting a precedent in the fight against global warming by lowering the high cost to poor countries of preserving the environment. Correa had sought $3.6 billion in contributions to maintain a moratorium on Yasuni drilling. But he said Ecuador managed to raise just $13 million. It's unclear when drilling would begin."

IMHO it appears he's set a president that proposing to prevent oil/NG development for the sake of the environment is a hollow threat if there's govt revenue on the line.
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Re: Amazon Update

Unread postby americandream » Sat 05 Oct 2013, 05:05:39

ROCKMAN wrote:Apparently the Ecuadorian govt was more interested in cashing in then protecting the environment. I suspect a philosophy we'll more commonly see from most govts as we roll further down the PO path. I'm sure they gave their best effort at extortion but it just didn't work. From RigZone:

"Ecuador (AP) — Lawmakers in Ecuador on Thursday authorized the extraction of oil from Yasuni National Park, a pristine Amazon reserve. The president in August announced that he was abandoning a unique plan to persuade rich countries to pay Ecuador not to drill in the Yasuni, saying wealthy nations had failed to pledge enough money. Environmentalists had hailed the initiative when it was announced in 2007, saying Correa was setting a precedent in the fight against global warming by lowering the high cost to poor countries of preserving the environment. Correa had sought $3.6 billion in contributions to maintain a moratorium on Yasuni drilling. But he said Ecuador managed to raise just $13 million. It's unclear when drilling would begin."

IMHO it appears he's set a president that proposing to prevent oil/NG development for the sake of the environment is a hollow threat if there's govt revenue on the line.


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Re: Amazon Update

Unread postby radon1 » Sat 05 Oct 2013, 08:28:44

The would drill it anyway, sooner or later, with or without donations.
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Re: Amazon Update

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 05 Oct 2013, 10:29:18

radon1 wrote:The would drill it anyway, sooner or later, with or without donations.

Exactly, the more valuable the resource the sooner poor nations will access them. It isn't evil, just human nature at work.
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Re: Amazon Update

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 05 Oct 2013, 14:20:51

Well, given that one of the richest nations on the planet is dong a bang up job exploiting hydrocarbons it shouldn't be much of a surprise. After all the US gov't is the single largest mineral owner in the country and collects about $10 billion a year just from royalties alone. And given it has put up over 20 million acres of offshore leases for sale in just the last year as well as approving over 400 drilling permits they seem more intent than the Ecuadorian gov't to exploit what they own.
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Re: Amazon Update

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 07 Nov 2013, 20:06:40

Amazon Deforestation Could Mean Droughts for Western U.S.

n research meant to highlight how the destruction of the Amazon rainforest could affect climate elsewhere, Princeton University-led researchers report that the total deforestation of the Amazon may significantly reduce rain and snowfall in the western United States, resulting in water and food shortages, and a greater risk of forest fires.

The researchers report in the Journal of Climate that an Amazon stripped bare could mean 20 percent less rain for the coastal Northwest and a 50 percent reduction in the Sierra Nevada snowpack, a crucial source of water for cities and farms in California. Previous research has shown that deforestation will likely produce dry air over the Amazon. Using high-resolution climate simulations, the researchers are the first to find that the atmosphere's normal weather-moving mechanics would create a ripple effect that would move that dry air directly over the western United States from December to February.

Specifically, a denuded Amazon would develop a weather cycle consisting of abnormally dry air in the sun-scorched northern Amazon around the equator weighted by wetter air in the cooler south. Research has speculated that this pattern would be similar to the warm-water climate pattern El Niño, which during the winter months brings heavy precipitation to southern California and the Sierra Nevada region while drying out the Pacific Northwest.


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Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 14 Nov 2013, 23:03:36

http://earthenginepartners.appspot.com/ ... bal-forest

The consequences of fires in Siberia, Alaska and northern Canada are very notable.
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Re: Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 15 Nov 2013, 03:20:16

dohboi wrote:http://earthenginepartners.appspot.com/science-2013-global-forest

The consequences of fires in Siberia, Alaska and northern Canada are very notable.
The 2003 Lost Creek Fire. I am just below where it says 24 Ave at the top.
LOST_CREEK_FIRE.png


I think the size of the fire was due to decades of fire suppression (at public expense) for the benefit of the logging industry. Before that there would be smaller fires every year set by lightning, so there was never enough fuel for such a large fire.

They got to do some salvage logging for a couple of years before the beetles got the burnt trees.

PS: I should go back next summer and get pics of the same locations. There are 2-3 metre trees now.
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Re: Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 15 Nov 2013, 06:47:33

Wow. Did you have to evacuate?

The issue of regrowth is an interesting one. I wonder how long it is before the label regrowth as new forest. If you zoom in on Siberia, there are patches of blue (new forest) that are the same range of shapes and sizes as the patches of red (forest loss, in this case, mostly through fire). So I have to assume that those blue patches are regrowth in old areas of fire. But I'm not sure how big the trees have to be to qualify as regrowth.
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Re: Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby rollin » Fri 15 Nov 2013, 10:58:04

Here is Joe Romm's testimony to a House Committee on the subject of global warming and wildfires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVhOyuO6LFM

If that doesn't stir you, find his Fossil Fuels are a Ponzi scheme speech.

Great map dohboi, by the way, thanks for bringing it to our attention.
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Re: Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:03:23

Joe's a true climate warrior. Some fault his site for being too advocacy focused, but I think that there is room for that as well as the more purely science-y sites like RC and SkSc. Thanks for the link.

(Your handle keeps reminding me of great songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDgYN5qeG4Y '-) )
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Re: Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby rollin » Fri 22 Nov 2013, 11:22:57

The latest scam is to cut down whole trees to provide pelletized "green" fuel to Europe so they can comply with their legal requirements and not pay carbon taxes. The forests of the southern US are particularly at risk for this gimmick.

Add to that the destruction of tropical forests to grow palm oil so the Netherlands and others can use "green" bio-fuel to bypass the carbon taxes and comply, we have a huge carbon signature added to the atmosphere and extreme loss of habitats. Experts say that it will take 400 years for the palm oil farms to break even as far as carbon output from forest destruction vs. carbon saved by burning palm oil.
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Re: Map tracks global forest loss

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 22 Nov 2013, 16:37:01

That's a human feedback that I think some underestimate--as more and more people start getting a glimmer of the enormity of the catastrophe they are causing by their every day life style, many individuals and policy makers will fall prey to the latest snake (or in this case palm) oil sales man that comes along and claims that by just paying a bit more for this or that innovative technique, their carbon sins will all be absolved. But most of these will not only not help, but will make things much worse.

We already see this in various alternative liquid fuels, whether it's palm oil or corn ethanol.

Our ability to delude and to be deluded (not to mention our ability to rationalize) far outstrips our abilities to think rationally through the maths and moral calculus of various (but rapidly shrinking) viable (and seemingly viable) options before us.
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THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Lore » Wed 01 Jul 2015, 19:46:23

Graeme wrote:That's great. I'm also doing that here too. I think you've seen that I had my fair share of fights. But mostly I'm bringing news. Something interesting turns up almost daily.


I have always appreciated your information and dedication. I just fear that the effort is now being wasted. That is other than PO being a utility to you.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 01 Jul 2015, 19:49:55

If admin notices that visits start to fall off dramatically, they could always change threads to public view back that way it was before. It's up to them.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread (merged)

Unread postby Lore » Wed 01 Jul 2015, 19:52:14

Graeme wrote:If admin notices that visits start to fall off dramatically, they could always change threads to public view back that way it was before. It's up to them.


Well I would have tested it first.

Try a new topic in the "Environment" and see what you get for views?
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 01 Jul 2015, 21:59:15

Graham, what are you up to? What's your plan?

The interest is always in the verb! The action!
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 02 Jul 2015, 22:43:50

It's early days yet so I can't reveal.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 29 Jul 2015, 01:02:21

My last day posting here will be Sunday 2nd August.

Sebastião Salgado focuses on big picture with parable of reforestation in Brazil

When the renowned Brazilian photographer Sebastião Salgado took over family land in the state of Minas Gerais, instead of the tropical paradise that he remembered as a child, he found the trees cut down and the wildlife gone. He was devastated.

It was 1994 and he had just returned from a traumatic assignment reporting on the genocide in Rwanda, he told a meeting of religious leaders discussing climate change in Paris last week.

“The land was as sick as I was – everything was destroyed,” said Salgado. “Only about 0.5% of the land was covered in trees. Then my wife had a fabulous idea to replant this forest. And when we began to do that, then all the insects and birds and fish returned and, thanks to this increase of the trees I, too, was reborn – this was the most important moment.”

Salgado and his family set up the Instituto Terra and have now planted more than 2 million trees, transforming the environment. In doing so, he says, he has found one answer to climate change – as well as creative inspiration.

“Perhaps we have a solution. There is a single being which can transform CO2 to oxygen, which is the tree. We need to replant the forest. You need forest with native trees, and you need to gather the seeds in the same region you plant them or the serpents and the termites won’t come. And if you plant forests that don’t belong, the animals don’t come there and the forest is silent.


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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 29 Jul 2015, 09:52:07

Here like in this deforestation thread, or here like on POForums??

If the latter, is it changes in the administration of the site that's driving you away, or just life?

In any case, you'll be missed.
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