[vision-master]

and unprecedented ecological damage to the pristine coastal areas. Capitalism will destory Cuba.......

[Sixstrings]

They're transitioning to the Chinese model. Good from them.. Chinese state capitalism isn't freedom, but it's a lot better than old school communism.

[sjn]

They're transitioning to the Chinese model. Good from them.. Chinese state capitalism isn't freedom, but it's a lot better than old school communism.

For whom?

[Questionmark]

Welcome to 1991. The Cuban govt was forced to give land grants to private farmers and allow privately run businesses to exist in the early 1990's during the Special Period in order to prevent a complete collapse of society and some serious civil unrest. This is nothing new.

[Questionmark]

Welcome to 1991. The Cuban govt was forced to give land grants to private farmers and allow privately run businesses to exist in the early 1990's during the Special Period in order to prevent a complete collapse of society and some serious civil unrest. This is nothing new.

[radon]

Welcome to 1991. The Cuban govt was forced to give land grants to private farmers and allow privately run businesses to exist in the early 1990's during the Special Period in order to prevent a complete collapse of society and some serious civil unrest. This is nothing new.

It might be a bit different this time actually. It may well be that they are not really concerned with the ideology, communist or capitalist. Rather, they are just trying to sort out the succession issue.

Cuban authorities are reestablishing property markets:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13125104

From this article:

Cuba says it will allow people to buy and sell their homes for the first time since the communist revolution in 1959.

This is a single cautionary change, not a comprehensive reform. So it is difficult to derive conclusively what they are really up to.

This gives people rights to dispose of their houses without restrictions as they see fit, providing them essentially with full ownership rights. Sounds like privatization. It is likely that they will have a wave of homeless people as a result - those who sold their houses and/or disposed of their money unwisely this or that way. But they are not deterred, despite the social burden and discontent arising from the homelessness.

Further from the article:

He said the party leadership was in need of renewal and should subject itself to severe self-criticism.

These are literally the words from which "perestroika" started in the Soviet Union. You would see Gorbachev saying them from the TV screen every day, especially the "severe self-criticism", the funny part. Gradual privatization of the "public" property was one of the strong real drivers behind perestroika.

In any known socialist type society with dominant "public" ownership, this "public" ownership was in essence the ownership by a few people or a single person at the top, as those were in position to make any decisions with regard to the "public" property. Cuba, specifically, is different from the Soviet Union of perestroika's time in that Cuba's present social order hinges significantly on Fidel Castro's personality.

It is not guaranteed that Cubans will accept that F.Castro's successors are in position to exercise as much control over the "public" property as their exalted revolutionary hero. In order words, those successors may lack F.Castro's legitimacy in the view of Cubans. In order to overcome this legitimacy issue, the successors may now be trying to introduce the institute of privatization.

The housing in Cuba is most likely state-owned - better to check with people on the ground. This means that if you are a party boss, you are probably living in a more or less luxurious apartments, but if and when you are sacked, you have to vacate them.

In order to be able to sell your house, you need to register it as you private property, in order words - privatize it. This way, vacating of the property is no longer an issue for a party boss regardless of his fortunes or misfortunes with the party.

Housing is a good testing ground, as it is universal. Almost everyone has some sort of housing. You will not be blamed for introducing inequality. When widely accepted, this practice may be more easily extended to other parts of economy.

This measure is not as much an indication of collapse of communism, which has been non-existent in Cuba (or anywhere) to start with, as it is an attempt to deal with the succession/legitimacy issue.

This is just a guess and observation. I am not saying that the thing that they are doing is either good or bad.

[Sixstrings]

They're transitioning to the Chinese model. Good from them.. Chinese state capitalism isn't freedom, but it's a lot better than old school communism.

For whom?

Better for the Cubans.. hopefully anyway. Assuming they don't lose their cheap / free healthcare, housing, and don't starve then more freedom is definitely and improvement. The Chinese aren't as free as us, but they're much more free than the Cuban people. At least the Chinese can own property, travel, start businesses, and more to the point actually run their businesses without government overly-micromanaging.

If Cuba goes full-on Chinese model, then it's bad for us -- there's more jobs gone, but what the hell we're losing them to everywhere else anyway let the Cubans have some too. Cubans have suffered long enough, way too long, they need reform and we need to end that stupid embargo. Now that we've been in bed with communist China for thirty years we have no moral justification to deprive all these people just off our border simply because they're "communist." It's unfair, why are Cubans our enemy while the communist Chinese are "most favored nation?"

[Cid_Yama]

More than a half century of Cold War and lingering enmity came to an abrupt but quiet end on Monday as the United States and Cuba restored full diplomatic relations.

The new era began with little fanfare when an agreement between the two nations to resume normal ties on July 20 came into force just after midnight Sunday and the diplomatic missions of each country were upgraded from interests sections to embassies. When clocks struck 12:00 in Washington and Havana, they tolled a knell for policy approaches spawned and hardened over the five decades since President John F. Kennedy first tangled with youthful revolutionary Fidel Castro over Soviet expansion in the Americas.

Without ceremony in the pre-dawn hours, maintenance workers were to hang the Cuban flag in the lobby of the State Department alongside those of other nations with which the U.S. has diplomatic relations. The historic shift will be publicly memorialized later Monday when Cuban officials formally inaugurate their embassy in Washington and Cuba's blue, red and white-starred flag will fly for the first time since the countries severed ties in 1961. Secretary of State John Kerry will then meet his Cuban counterpart, Bruno Rodriguez, and address reporters at a joint news conference.

link

Cuban beaches await! The Cuba Libras are on ice and the cigars in humidors next to the beach chairs.

Que Bueno Baila Usted

[americandream]

Long overdue in my opinion. Of course, it will spell the end of separation from crazy planet destroying consumerism but that issue needs to be resolved on a planet wide basis, not in isolation behind iron curtains.

[Quinny]

That's another holiday destination spoiled

[Cog]

I doubt it. I'm just wondering how many times he bowed down to Raul.

[ennui2]

I know how this goes.

If Obama continues the status quo Cuba policy, he's just persisting the Cold War for no good reason, exerting collective punishment, yada yada.

If Obama normalizes relations, though, then it's a "sign" of "desperation" of the US "Empire".

Notice how there's no analysis that frames things in a way where Obama is doing it out of a good conscience. It has to be greed or desperation or whatever.

Same analysis is applied to, let's say Iran. The deal with Iran wasn't a triumph of peacenik diplomacy. It was just a way to open up Iran's oil markets.

Really, nobody here has any idea how monochromatic their analysis is. The reality is simply not as mustache-twisting evil as people would like it to be.

[Cog]

So vote for Hillary ennui. You know you are going to. She has embraced every part of Obama's policies.

[efarmer]

I see some interesting things possible.

1. I think an 800 mile long island nation right off the tip of Florida is probably good to
have relations with. Maybe this time we do better, last time our mobs and East Coast
thugs had Havana as a casino and whorehouse and our corporations had the country as
virtual slave labor sugar production, this mentality was reinforced by Bush II putting
Islamic militants in Cuba for anything goes treatment or prosecution, which was along
the same 1950's fat Yankee in the Banana Republic meme.

2. The US political leadership has mauled healthcare, both parties love to keep the state
by state insurance monopolies that prevent free market competition from taking place
because it yields big fat campaign checks and to a lesser extent, gives state pols a shot
at hot button issues like abortion. Meanwhile Americans find a mole or a wart or cyst
is "cosmetic surgery" and not covered, and what is covered is after thousands of dollars
out of pocket to reach the threshold where the insurance the consumer pays for starts
to partially match the bills incurred. I would love to see Cuba become a mecca for
Americans to receive affordable minor surgery and treatment not affordable or possible
from the money sucking monster America and it's paid for pols afflicted it's citizens with.
It is still of course the very best health care on earth that money can buy if you have enough.
The money is against America having any decent system for the foreseeable future, so we need
a close in alternative source to prove the free market works. Cuba.

3. Southwest Airlines will surely have the cheap airfare to Cuba and your choice will be
$1200 out of pocket for a minor medical procedure or $600 for you and the spouse to go
to Cuba, have it done, spend two days on the beach, and have enough left to make that steep
payment on your health insurance so you can have a $2M ICU death when you get terminally
ill someday.

4. With the drought in California and the water shortages, I predict Cuba is going to be
a natural alternative to California's artificial growing regions.

5. President Trump can lay in the hooks and make the connection to get a Trump Casino in
Cuba, he may not be able to bring in labor from the Phillipines, but instead have to pay
the backbreaking wages prevalent in Cuba. In honor of this, Raul Castro will still have the
raw political power to ban importing Trump pinatas from Mexico and insulting the American
Emporor while the art of the deal goes forward.

6. Congress will be able to smoke Cuban cigars in public. This will result in the colloquial
pork industry axiom being said more often:

"You know it's gonna rain, when you see the hogs running around with sticks hanging out of
their mouths."

[ennui2]

Doomers embody extremist ideology. Why is it that doomers spend so much of their time grieving over the fact that they can't find anyone to vote for? Democracy tends to average things out to the middle. Believe it or not, Obama is a moderate. Due to the polarization in politics we've seen over the last few decades, the left sees him as too right-wing and the right sees him as too left-wing. But that's how the presidential elections function. Everything averages out and you wind up with a moderate president. GWB was probably the last true right-wing candidate we're likely to get because demographics (increasing minorities in the red states) now tilts to the democrats. Until the GOP finds a way to expand their tent in a way to appeal to women and minorities, they will keep losing presidential elections.

This lesson was served to the GOP out 4 years ago and rather than learn from it, the GOP doubled down on their base. But even Rubio, the candidate that was supposed to be able to appeal to hispanics, couldn't even win his home state of Florida.

So really, what else is there to say here? It would have been nice if the democrats had found a worthy alternative to Hillary other than a glorified 3rd party candidate. The Democrats stepped aside and just assumed that Hillary was the heir apparent, putting all their eggs in one basket. And knowing that the GOP is a scandal machine (i.e. them never letting Benghazi go) the Democrats should have known that Hillary would face a barrage endless accusations about the emails. I don't know who else is/was out there with enough name recognition to have served as a Hillary alternative.

When it comes to politics, I'm a pragmatist. When I keep hearing these screeds about how this or that politician is an (insert negative label) I just shake my head because I sincerely believe that we get the government that we vote for. Considering that nobody in the US even wants to serve jury duty, we have this sense of entitlement to great politicians but we'd never want to be one ourselves. Doing so amounts to placing a huge bullseye on our foreheads. Most people don't have the constitution to withstand the kind of petty criticism and bashing that politicians get. And so through the filtering process, the kinds of people who pursue politics tend to skew towards the sociopathic. But the tenor of political discourse is something we've created. This is the monster we've created. So it's not fair to blame someone like Cruz or Trump for being a sociopath, because we've turned the election process into a petty reality show mixed with a professional wrestling match.

Again, it all comes down to this sense of entitlement. We want a utopia and we fail to take responsibility for our role in setting a dysfunctional political stage. We want to view ourselves as hapless victims rather than co-conspirators. I find it all very myopic.

[efarmer]

What you said Ennui2, you done it really good.
I want all the bums thrown out except the one that
takes my bribes and pumps me sunshine...
E

[onlooker]

Again, it all comes down to this sense of entitlement. We want a utopia and we fail to take responsibility for our role in setting a dysfunctional political stage. We want to view ourselves as hapless victims rather than co-conspirators. I find it all very myopic.

Actually, Ennui I find that very shallow thinking. You can chose not to believe that a group of very wealth hidden cosmopolitan people are not calling the shots, but your gullibility relative to politics is quite poignant. You rail against tinfoil perceptions and doomer perceptions with great gusto which shows me your blind spot. Politics has always been a corrupt endeavor since the dawn of civilization. The US political arena has been hopelessly corrupted over time, many people can see this. We are not truly given legitimate choices as to who to vote for. Our political system is completely co-opted by money. The bar for breaking the Dem/Rep monopoly has been set so high nobody from any other party can even hardly run much less win. Looks at the last few decades and who was allowed to even participate in the debates. Very few from outside the establishment. Just to run for any office nowdays one has to be wealthy. The whole political system is subservient to big financial interests. Do you really think one person can make a difference against that? You call some of us doomers and tinfoilers. Well I call you naive and somewhat brainwashed. Even though I know you are intelligent. The masses know this that is why they have such apathy and cynicism.

[Subjectivist]

Personally I wish President Carter of President Clinton had opened Cuba decades ago, but we can not change the past. No Republican was going to do it when the revered Democrat JFK was the one who put the embargo in place.

[ennui2]

Actually, Ennui I find that very shallow thinking. You can chose not to believe that a group of very wealth hidden cosmopolitan people are not calling the shots, but your gullibility relative to politics is quite poignant.

Is Bernie Sanders one of these? What prevents him from getting the nomination...or Ralph Nader or other 3rd party types that have come and gone? YOUR NEIGHBORS. But are you going to go rap on your neighbors' doors and berate them for not supporting Bernie? No. You're going to go all-out tinfoil fatalist, because it's easier to shake your fist at a boogeyman than it is to accept that you're asking for a candidate and an ideology that your neighbors don't want and will never want.

The alternatives are out there but their style and their message doesn't resonate with joe sixpack. Trump and company do. No illuminaughties necessary.

The masses know this that is why they have such apathy and cynicism.

No, their response is....TRUMP! To hoist up a 1% as their savior!

[Plantagenet]

Notice how there's no analysis that frames things in a way where Obama is doing it out of a good conscience. It has to be greed or desperation or whatever.

You didn't read very carefully.

As I made clear when I started this threat, Obama's opening of Cuba is a win-win situation. Its Fair Play for Cuba and Fair Play for US corporations who want to operate in Cuba.

By opening up Cuba Obama provides attractive opportunities for US corporations and banks to expand their businesses into another country. And as US corporations expand into Cuba, there will more opportunities for Cubans to get decent jobs and earn a living wage. Right now Cuba is the 2nd most impoverished country in the Americas after Haiti. By giving Cubans jobs as bank tellers, hotel waiters, McDonald's janitors, musical entertainers, etc., etc. O's opening of Cuba will benefit the average Cuban as well as benefitting US corporate interests.

Win-Win!

Cheers!