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The coming Civil War

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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 10 Jan 2020, 23:26:41

Cog wrote:Every time a progressive uses the phrase "fair share", he wants to rob someone using the government as the stick up man.

Plus, they won't DEFINE what is fair. It's always "more".

In the real world, the rich pay a huge proportion of the US and state income taxes.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-lates ... 18-update/

Liz Warren recently supported confiscating 3% of the wealth of the wealthy -- ON TOP of all the other taxes they pay, including the death tax. That wasn't enough, so now she wants to take 6% every year. What's next? 12% or 24%? Or reducing the income level to the upper middle class? After all, the liberals want more money to have more programs -- unceasingly.

"Fair" is all a matter of opinion.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby careinke » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 20:29:48

So, tomorrow could be an interesting day for Virginia and the rest of the country over the Second Amendment. Opinions, and rumors, seem all over the map. Some examples:

1. Some conservatives are saying stay home because it is a trap.
2. West Virginia has offered to take in the 2A sanctuary counties.
3. Soros is funding Antifa to pull off a false flag operation.
4. Vets will become Domestic terrorists under the Patriot Act.
5. If you are pro 2nd Amendment, now is the time to take a stand

etc. etc.

I think there is about a 75% chance this breaks out into violence, both in Virginia and other states.

Thoughts???
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 21:20:42

careinke wrote:So, tomorrow could be an interesting day for Virginia and the rest of the country over the Second Amendment. Opinions, and rumors, seem all over the map. Some examples:

1. Some conservatives are saying stay home because it is a trap.
2. West Virginia has offered to take in the 2A sanctuary counties.
3. Soros is funding Antifa to pull off a false flag operation.
4. Vets will become Domestic terrorists under the Patriot Act.
5. If you are pro 2nd Amendment, now is the time to take a stand

etc. etc.

I think there is about a 75% chance this breaks out into violence, both in Virginia and other states.

Thoughts???

I think more like 5% chance. Then only if the liberals plant an instigator to trigger violence. Leaders on the gun rights side are aware of this possibility and are guarding against it.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Cog » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 21:40:25

Gun rights advocates have been lobbying peacefully for 18 years on January 20th. Blackface governor has turned the Capitol into a fenced compound using a fake emergency. Just remember this rally tomorrow is a warning to the govenor. Back off of your 72 gun bills or face the consequences.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby careinke » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 21:43:36

vtsnowedin wrote:
careinke wrote:So, tomorrow could be an interesting day for Virginia and the rest of the country over the Second Amendment. Opinions, and rumors, seem all over the map. Some examples:

1. Some conservatives are saying stay home because it is a trap.
2. West Virginia has offered to take in the 2A sanctuary counties.
3. Soros is funding Antifa to pull off a false flag operation.
4. Vets will become Domestic terrorists under the Patriot Act.
5. If you are pro 2nd Amendment, now is the time to take a stand

etc. etc.

I think there is about a 75% chance this breaks out into violence, both in Virginia and other states.

Thoughts???

I think more like 5% chance. Then only if the liberals plant an instigator to trigger violence. Leaders on the gun rights side are aware of this possibility and are guarding against it.


I hope you are right. +1
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 Jan 2020, 06:52:32

It’s interesting that I’ve seen almost nothing of this on the on line news. I think there was a bit on Fox yesterday.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Cog » Mon 20 Jan 2020, 13:08:33

There were some livestreams on youtube of the event. Search terms Richmond Virginia rally
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby dissident » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 11:03:55

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/tru ... nt-florida

This D. Party supporter terrorism pure and simple. Thanks CNN and the rest of the fake stream media for inducing the hysteria.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby dissident » Mon 10 Feb 2020, 14:04:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjoF4DNlAEE

Trump is not the source of the polarization in the USA. It is the ripening of the cultural Trotskyist rot (in the guise of socialism) that is driving the current hysteria in the D. Party and its base. As good little Trotskyists, they cannot tolerate dissent and want bloody final solutions like the Russian civil war after 1917. Even though Trotsky is painted as some dissident saint, he was a butcher and the origin of the Red Terror. This infection has afflicted the USA and you can see the insane intolerance and psychotic radicalism of the anti-Republican and anti-Trump hordes. These lunatics are also experiencing a propaganda echo chamber much like existed in the USSR and Nazi Germany but instead of some inefficient state run media, it is social media that is serving the same purpose. And I would say more effectively. The SJWs living on Twitter and Facebook group think are worse than the brow shirts since there is vastly more of them and they true believers in the agenda to the core.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby evilgenius » Tue 11 Feb 2020, 15:09:17

dissident wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjoF4DNlAEE

Trump is not the source of the polarization in the USA. It is the ripening of the cultural Trotskyist rot (in the guise of socialism) that is driving the current hysteria in the D. Party and its base. As good little Trotskyists, they cannot tolerate dissent and want bloody final solutions like the Russian civil war after 1917. Even though Trotsky is painted as some dissident saint, he was a butcher and the origin of the Red Terror. This infection has afflicted the USA and you can see the insane intolerance and psychotic radicalism of the anti-Republican and anti-Trump hordes. These lunatics are also experiencing a propaganda echo chamber much like existed in the USSR and Nazi Germany but instead of some inefficient state run media, it is social media that is serving the same purpose. And I would say more effectively. The SJWs living on Twitter and Facebook group think are worse than the brow shirts since there is vastly more of them and they true believers in the agenda to the core.

I think that's a grand oversimplification. Socialism has an appeal due to the perception that what people haven't been able to get, a fair wage that rises yearly, can be substituted for by a power grab. The idea becomes more appealing the farther away from the place where hard work pays off that people get. Things like labor unions, which the Soviets hated, are no longer seen as viable alternatives. Too many people who used to think the other way now believe in the sanctity of capital in the equation. People seem to want a solution that involves recognizing individual expression and free enterprise. They are against things like corporate welfare.

Many on the left are enticed by Sanders and Warren. They seem to offer an American version of socialism. I'm not in that camp, but I can see the appeal. They're plugged into that hating rich men while wanting to be a rich man thing. But, by no means, did the socialist impulse lead the thing. Sanders and Warren are just helping those people deal with the reality they find themselves in. It's like they are speaking something into existence which is made out of the same struggle that everybody else is going through, only some people think we can afford to go that way. I bet we can't.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby dissident » Sun 01 Mar 2020, 12:51:02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SscKZXAdss

The rot in the US judicial system is severe.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 01 Mar 2020, 13:54:09

Trickle-down, coddling big business and their lobbies, deregulation, etc... has regressed the country back to late 1800s robber baron territory. The only difference is that a significant chunk of the voterbase has been permanently brainwashed into thinking this pro-business approach is in their best interest. But the democrats haven't been able to formulate a moderate response to trickle-down economics and so they come across as sociality/communist rather than simply trying to get back to some golden mean. This isn't helped by the way their positions are further distorted and caricatured by the right.

The net result is that the country is locked in this MAGA delusion thinking that some combination of protectionism and American exceptionalist thinking will bring back a 1950s utopia. It's really just trickle-down 2.0.

At the same time, the overreach of the left in the social justice domain causes those in the middle who might be sympathetic to their economic policies to side with the right. There is unfortunately no third party that can offer a best-of mix of policies from each side. You're forced to pick the least objectionable side based on what your priorities may be.

People tend to be a poor judge of what's most important to our collective welfare. They largely don't give a rat's ass about the planet, for instance, so the difference in environmental policy between each side ends up favoring republicans. They are also driven by emotion so white straight males who feel demonized by the left will also favor republics. So pound for pound I still see the voterbase tilting right even though this is far worse for the planet long-term.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-I'm glad Trump is in there now. I think we'll have a vaccine in a couple of months. (mmasters, 3/17/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 01 Mar 2020, 15:22:03

Remember, America (USA) is 'exceptional' because it is a 'stable' democracy. At least, it was until recently.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 01 Mar 2020, 17:13:38

I do not now nor have I understood the desire some people have for a civil war that would result in millions of deaths because someone else disagrees with their ideas of how things should be done.

The ends never justify the means. Each act of violence can only be judged on its own merits, and not in a fog of emotional fervor as justification.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 01 Mar 2020, 17:49:26

Tanada wrote:I do not now nor have I understood the desire some people have for a civil war that would result in millions of deaths because someone else disagrees with their ideas of how things should be done.

The ends never justify the means. Each act of violence can only be judged on its own merits, and not in a fog of emotional fervor as justification.


+1

Your sentiment is, alas, the exception not the rule with what's left of the active posters here.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-I'm glad Trump is in there now. I think we'll have a vaccine in a couple of months. (mmasters, 3/17/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 07 Mar 2020, 16:55:57

asg70 wrote:
Tanada wrote:I do not now nor have I understood the desire some people have for a civil war that would result in millions of deaths because someone else disagrees with their ideas of how things should be done.

The ends never justify the means. Each act of violence can only be judged on its own merits, and not in a fog of emotional fervor as justification.


+1

Your sentiment is, alas, the exception not the rule with what's left of the active posters here.

As far as I can see, the right is the side drumming up this civil war business. People like me, and other middle or slightly left people, are mostly just recognizing the direction the right wants to head. They are driving this discussion. I don't know if it is like the fear of a constitutional coup in order to take power after losing an election, which is the fear of each side when they are out of power and they are complaining about the side that has power. The right said it about Obama, and now the left are saying the same about Trump. What it really seems to be saying is that the people's fear prevents them from believing in America's institutions, which are built to withstand such things. Why are Americans indulging in such fear? I think it is an indulgence, and not based upon anything materially wrong with the country.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 07 Mar 2020, 17:31:00

Evil,

My impression is the each side is blaming the other side. I don’t really think one is to blame more, or less, than the other.

My guess it’s just our personal bias that causes us to think it’s always the other guys fault.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 07 Mar 2020, 18:18:58

When all you have is a gun, every difficult situation is represented as something to shoot one's way out of, i.e. the hammer and nail phenomena.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 07 Mar 2020, 18:56:51

I guess you don’t own guns.

That’s a very rash statement. I may apply to some but not to the folks I know and damn sure doesn’t apply to me. And I e bit more guns than Cog.
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Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 07 Mar 2020, 21:04:41

I've come to believe that radicalism works in a ring-like pattern. The most radical elements tend to be nestled or protected within groups that ideologically support or encourage violent action but hide behind a plausibly deniable front (i.e. pretending to be a "humanitarian" group). This group is surrounded by another group who don't want to admit that the inner group is actually the catalyst for the terrorism. And that group is surrounded by an outermost group who just wave a generic ethno-religious banner.

You see the above formula work with Trump and the alt-right. Trump's rhetoric encourages violence and I think Trump knows this, but he doesn't want to be responsible for it, so he engages in dog-whistles and hides behind plausible deniability. When violence breaks out, he hesitates or issues a weak and unconvincing plea to stop it. But the bottom line is a strong adherence to an us vs. them mentality.

Antifa, same thing. "Punch a Nazi" is a meme. Violence is OK as long as you have applied the proper dehumanizing label to your opponent. It's just that right now most of the force being exerted by the left comes in the form of social ostracism--i.e. cancel-culture. It seems milder, but believe me, this can be just as destructive in its own way. The left is also the biggest threat to freedom of speech in the US today, an inversion of the moral majority and religious right's whining from the 80s. If the social contract crumbles, the country will follow.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-I'm glad Trump is in there now. I think we'll have a vaccine in a couple of months. (mmasters, 3/17/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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