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THE China Thread pt 7 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby ItalyRules » Thu 01 Dec 2011, 02:12:48

China, India play dangerous new game
It was billed as a new assertiveness, when India's usually meek Prime Minister Manmohan Singh supposedly looked his Chinese counterpart in the eye at a summit in Bali last weekend and defended his country's "commercial" right to explore for oil and gas in the South China Sea.

But it was also a sign of rising frictions between India and China, and of what experts see as a dangerous new game between the world's most populous nations.

Threatened by China's rapidly growing ties with its South Asian neighbors, India is increasingly trying to penetrate Beijing's traditional sphere of influence, and the mutual irritations are beginning to show.

Coming just after India and Vietnam agreed to jointly explore two ocean blocks just off the fiercely contested Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, Mr. Singh's stance in Bali prompted a frosty response from the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

"We don't hope to see outside forces involved in the South China Sea dispute and do not want to see foreign companies engage in activities that will undermine China's sovereignty and rights and interests," Foreign Ministry spokesman Lin Weimin told reporters in Beijing.

The Chinese Communist Party newspaper put it even more bluntly in an editorial last month, accusing India and Vietnam of "reckless attempts in confronting China" and warning that Indian society was unprepared for a "fierce conflict" with China on the issue.

link


United Germany's fast-rising economic and military power was seen by the British Empire, which then ruled a quarter of the globe, as a dire threat.

However, Bismarck managed to cleverly divide or distract Germany's foes or rivals and maintain Europe's balance of power. But the new, headstrong young kaiser, Wilhelm II, foolishly dismissed the domineering Bismarck and soon plunged his nation into confrontation with Imperial Britain over naval power, colonies, and trade.

Britain's imperialists determined to crush rival Germany. The fuse of World War I was lit.

We see the first steps of a similar great power clash taking shape today in South Asia.

China is usually very cautious in its foreign affairs. But of late, Beijing has been aggressively asserting maritime claims in the resource-rich South China Sea, a region bordered by Indonesia, Vietnam, Brunei, the Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and China.

Japan, India, South Korea and the United States also assert strategic interests in this hotly disputed sea, which is believed to contain 100 billion barrels of oil and 700 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

China has repeatedly clashed with Vietnam and the Philippines over the Spratly and Paracel islands and even mere rocks in the China Sea. Tensions are high.

In 2010, the US strongly backed the maritime resource claims by the smaller Asian states, warning off China and reasserting the US Navy's right to patrol anywhere. Beijing took this as a direct challenge to its regional suzerainty.

Last week, Washington raised the stakes in this power game, announcing it will permanently base 2,500 Marines at the remote northern Australian port of Darwin.

A Marine regiment can't do much in such a vast, remote region, but Washington's symbolic troop deployment is another strong signal to China to keep its hands off the South China Sea. China and nearby Indonesia reacted with alarm. Memories in Indonesia of 1960's intervention by CIA mercenaries and British troops remain vivid.

The US is increasingly worried by China's military modernization and growing naval capabilities. Washington has forged a new, unofficial military alliance with India, and aided Delhi's nuclear weapons development, a pact clearly aimed at China. China and India are locked in a nuclear and conventional arms race.

US military forces now train in Mongolia. China may deploy a new Fourth Fleet in the South China Sea. Washington expresses concern over China's new aircraft carrier, anti-ship missiles and submarines, though these alarms coming from the world's leading naval power seem bit much.

The US is talking about selling advanced arms to Vietnam, an historic foe of China. The US is also modernizing Taiwan's and Japan's armed forces.

These moves sharpen China's growing fears of being encircled by a network of America's regional allies.

The recent ASEAN summit in Indonesia calling for a US-led "Trans-Pacific Partnership" was seen by Beijing as an effort to create an Asian NATO directed against China.

Rising tensions over the South China Sea disturbingly recall the naval race between Britain and Germany during the dreadnaught era that played a key role in triggering World War I.

We should also recall the pre-1914 great power race to build railroads, such as the famed Berlin to Baghdad line, that were that era's version of today's energy pipeline competition.

link

A new world war appears on the horizon. Only silver lining is it won't be in Europe this time.
The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide; he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, life, which should be high and full, lived for oneself, but not, above all, for others.”
—Benito Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism, 1933
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Re: China's move to energy efficient bulbs is a glimmer of h

Unread postby Margarethe » Fri 02 Dec 2011, 04:10:10

Talk about making a HUGE difference in global issues. It spans continents and time zones. And I hope, mindsets as well.
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby sparky » Sat 03 Dec 2011, 15:52:32

.
I've had a bit of a brain flash ,
it started with complete incomprehension on why the U.S. is hassling Iran,
up to pushing them down the military nuclear path , like with the medical 20% enriched sources
either Washington are complete idiots or what ???
Then it dawn to me without a pretend Iranian threat there is absolutely no reasons to develop
a Missile shield ,on top of a missile theater system .
so ... just the military-industrials looking after its bacon ???

but then why were ALL the Washington Establishment pushing crap uphill to get
the new start treaty with the Russians passed , out of goodness and reason ?????


Then , I though of what the Russians whine like mad about
A missile shield with a cut in the number of launchers would present interesting possibilities

should the U.S. prez wishes it a devastating first strike would eliminate 90% plus of the Russians strategic nukes , the few survivors would have a percentage of fail to launch and those going airborne would be picked by the shield ,
A statistically small number would get through ,
very useful to justifies the spin that the Russians started it
if none does , maybe something could localy be cooked up

I'm not saying that's the main line , but it would put the U.S. in a position of high stake blackmail
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Sat 03 Dec 2011, 19:12:06

China's becoming a bully in Southeast Asia, just like the US has been a bully in Central America.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby Margarethe » Sun 04 Dec 2011, 09:01:52

Oil is the last thing that should start a war, for goodness' sake. If I were a soldier, I wouldn't want to be gunned down just for an oil field.
(dying gasp) "I am fighting...so this oil field...can be used by my country and not yours!" *collapse*
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby Cog » Sun 04 Dec 2011, 09:32:48

Soldiers don't get to pick their wars.
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Sun 04 Dec 2011, 13:13:27

Margarethe wrote:Oil is the last thing that should start a war, for goodness' sake. If I were a soldier, I wouldn't want to be gunned down just for an oil field.
(dying gasp) "I am fighting...so this oil field...can be used by my country and not yours!" *collapse*

Read Brigadier General Smedley Darlington Butler's "War is a Crock" online. (its not that long) It was written like 80 years ago by a 2-time Medal of Honor recipient about American imperialism.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 04 Dec 2011, 13:29:56

Cog wrote:Soldiers don't get to pick their wars.

True, but if they don't believe in cause, they are tending to fight crappy.
They can even shoot their own commanding officer rather than an enemy...
So propaganda is extremely important during war.
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 04 Dec 2011, 15:05:14

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Cog wrote:Soldiers don't get to pick their wars.

True, but if they don't believe in cause, they are tending to fight crappy.
They can even shoot their own commanding officer rather than an enemy...
So propaganda is extremely important during war.

Or being told that they would be shot as traitors!
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.:Anonymous
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby eXpat » Tue 06 Dec 2011, 16:36:45

China's Hu urges navy to prepare for combat
Chinese President Hu Jintao on Tuesday urged the navy to prepare for military combat, amid growing regional tensions over maritime disputes and a US campaign to assert itself as a Pacific power.

The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security," he said.

Addressing the powerful Central Military Commission, Hu said: "Our work must closely encircle the main theme of national defence and military building."

His comments, which were posted in a statement on a government website, come as the United States and Beijing's neighbours have expressed concerns over its naval ambitions, particularly in the South China Sea.

Several Asian nations have competing claims over parts of the South China Sea, believed to encompass huge oil and gas reserves, while China claims it all. One-third of global seaborne trade passes through the region.

Vietnam and the Philippines have accused Chinese forces of increasing aggression there.

In a translation of Hu's comments, the official Xinhua news agency quoted the president as saying China's navy should "make extended preparations for warfare."

http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-hu-urges-navy-prepare-combat-160509787.html
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THE China & the Global Economy Thread Pt 3

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 12 Feb 2012, 16:15:34

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc7035dc-553b ... z1mCiTV0eA
China has instructed its banks to embark on a mammoth roll-over of loans to local governments, delaying the country’s reckoning with debts that have clouded its economic prospects.

China’s stimulus response to the global financial crisis saddled its provinces and cities with Rmb10.7tn ($1.7tn) in debts – about a quarter of the country’s output – and more than half those loans are scheduled to come due over the next three years.

While some analysts have warned that many loans will still go bad and that a roll-over only postpones the problem, government advisers believe that it will give Beijing time to find a more permanent solution to its debt troubles.

“An appropriate maturity extension is in the banks’ interest,” said Fan Jianping, chief economist of the State Information Centre, a think-tank within the government’s powerful planning agency.
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 20:07:55

Anyone seen this game changer ?

The US Department of Defense has stated that China has developed and reached initial operating capability of a conventionally-armed high hypersonic land-based anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-21.
This would be the world's first ASBM and the world's first weapons system capable of targeting a moving aircraft carrier strike group from long-range, land-based mobile launchers
The upgrades would greatly enhance China's ability to conduct sea-denial operations to prevent US carriers from intervening in the Taiwan Strait.

A professor at the U.S. Naval War College says that carrier-killing missiles underscore that the U.S. can no longer assume naval supremacy as it has since the end of World War II.


Check out the range
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _range.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-21
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 20:33:34

I knew Saudi Arabia had the version that could be nuclear equipped but they were supposed to be inaccurate, and thus more suitable for nuclear weapons only, than a precise strike.

The Russians have the Moskit cruise missile and the Bastion.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 20:33:34

I knew Saudi Arabia had the version that could be nuclear equipped but they were supposed to be inaccurate, and thus more suitable for nuclear weapons only, than a precise strike.

The Russians have the Moskit cruise missile and the Bastion.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 13 Feb 2012, 21:42:55

The way things are going Taiwan will likely be going cap in hand to China.
Nobody realistically is going to take China on.
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China double oil imports from Iran to 500k b/d

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 21 Feb 2012, 13:21:03

http://www.payvand.com/news/12/feb/1192.html

The National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) has reached an agreement with the International United Petroleum and Chemical Corporation (UNIPEC) to increase oil exports to China to 500,000 barrels per day (bpd).The agreement with UNIPEC, indicates that a decline in Iranian crude exports to China earlier this year was due to a commercial dispute rather than political reasons, Dow Jones Newswires reported

According to the report, the deal is another sign that China has no immediate plans to obey US sanctions, which were toughened late last year to increase pressure on Iran over its peaceful nuclear activities.

Although the terms of the new contract between NIOC and UNIPEC have not been made public, last year's contract was for 220,000 bpd of crude and 60,000 bpd of condensate from Iran's South Pars gas field.
********************************
To EU and US the message from China and Iran:

:P

M_B_S

More:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 90046.html

BEIJING—China's crude-oil imports from Iran last year were up 30% from 2010, to 27.76 million metric tons, China's General Administration of Customs reported Saturday. That works out to about 557,000 barrels a day.
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Re: China double oil imports from Iran to 500k b/d

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 21 Feb 2012, 13:50:48

Yes we are playing the oil endgame!

http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html


It is better to know something than to know nothing.

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Re: China double oil imports from Iran to 500k b/d

Unread postby bratticus » Wed 22 Feb 2012, 06:14:29

Coal to India Beating China on Singh Diktat
By Dinakar Sethuraman and Rakteem Katakey / Bloomberg / February 21, 2012


Purchases from abroad may exceed 118 million metric tons this year in India, compared with China’s 102 million tons, said Daniel Hynes, a director of commodity research at Citigroup Inc. in Sydney.

City facing 2GW power shortfall
Shanghai Daily via Eastday / February 18, 2012


SHANGHAI faces a power shortage of up to 2 gigawatts this summer - about 7 percent of its peak demand, government officials said, as the city works on securing more supplies from other regions.

World stocks muted as weaker yen, China credit easing hopes offset by Europe debt pessimism
Associated Press / Washington Post / February 22, 2012


Analysts at Barclays Capital in Hong Kong said the figure “will likely provide some comfort to the market” due to expectations that the People’s Bank of China will undertake further monetary easing in order to try to stimulate growth.

China’s Unexpected Holiday Inflation Pickup May Limit Easing Room: Economy
Bloomberg / February 9, 2012


Inflation quickening for the first time in six months adds pressure on officials to refrain from any immediate additional cut in banks’ reserve requirements.

... price gains accelerated ahead of the holiday, compared with last year’s early-February timing, said Zhang Zhiwei, a Hong Kong-based economist at Nomura Holdings Inc.

Western Journalists Attacked in Chinese Village Amid Unrest
J. DAVID GOODMAN / NY Times (blogs) / February 16, 2012


The protests in Panhe, in the eastern province of Zhejiang, have emerged under similar circumstances to those in Wukan, where villagers forced out the local Communist Party officials and took over the town briefly during an open rebellion in December.
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