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THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Mon 01 Apr 2019, 00:13:25

The notion of long chain hydrocarbons surviving cooking for millions of years is absurd regardless of pressure. There is no reversible chemistry involved where chain breaking is in equilibrium with chain re-forming. There is enough thermal energy available to break the chains into smaller and smaller units. These smaller pieces do not re-assemble since there is a high Gibbs' free energy barrier. Pressure does not stop this process since pressure is not chemistry and just keeps the stew in the pot.

The reason we can burn these long chain hydrocarbons is because their chains can be broken relatively easy and there is a net energy release in the process. Of course without an oxidant there is a Gibbs' free energy barrier but it is not high. If it was high, then the exothermic oxygen combustion chemistry would not apply.

This abiotic oil crankery can be debunked via a lab test where some petroleum is cooked under high pressure (we already have this in the form of thermal depolymerization). If this process had no net degradation effect, then we could cook oil from small chain hydrocarbons like CH4. In fact, it would be commercially viable.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 01 Apr 2019, 14:47:36

dissident wrote:This abiotic oil crankery can be debunked via a lab test where some petroleum is cooked under high pressure (we already have this in the form of thermal depolymerization). If this process had no net degradation effect, then we could cook oil from small chain hydrocarbons like CH4. In fact, it would be commercially viable.

Note how we get NADA from peakoilwhen re discussions of actual scientific test in a viable LAB to prove his theories? Only empty arm waving.

That says it all, no matter how much he flaps his arms, lips, and uses red font, etc.

I remember now why I gave up and put him on ignore long ago. I was hoping he had matured a bit and would at least deal a bit in facts. Nope. Well, back to ignoring his posts for a year or three, if he can't post actual content.

If he DOES post something meaningful, hopefully I'll see it in someone's quote.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby EdwinSm » Tue 02 Apr 2019, 01:58:56

For years and years in a row Saudi Arabia pumped huge amounts of oil and its reserves stayed the same. There is a whole thread about the possible (possibly never?) IPO that talks about the reserves being audited.

There are competing theories as to how Saudi Arabia could year after year replace exactly the amount of oil that was pumped.
Using Occam's razor [the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the right one] the idea of abiotic oil seems a simple explanation for this :P
However, there could be an even simpler explanation "The figures were made up." :roll: 8O
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 02 Apr 2019, 12:59:47

There are competing theories as to how Saudi Arabia could year after year replace exactly the amount of oil that was pumped.
Using Occam's razor [the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the right one] the idea of abiotic oil seems a simple explanation for this :P
However, there could be an even simpler explanation "The figures were made up." :roll: 8O


as I have pointed out numerous times the problem people encounter when dealing with understanding this is the difference between various classes of reserves. The D&M analysis which is now available through the bond prospectus points out the number SA has been talking about all these years is Proven reserves. Throughout this whole time new wells are added, new techniques (MRC), new recovery factors (Ghawar recovery on average has increased from ~40% to ~72%) etc and that allows Reserves that were previously classified as Probable or Possible or even Contingent Resource to be elevated to the Proven category. BTW the audited reserves information is now publically available so you'll have to find some other conspiracy theory to latch onto other than "SA is lying about their reserves".

As to using Abiotic theory to explain Saudi Reserves or reserves anywhere else.....please give your head a shake. :roll:
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 04 Aug 2020, 08:50:58

If you get bored read this, it should get you fired up at least for a while.

CONSIDERATIONS ABOUT RECENT PREDICTIONS

OF IMPENDING SHORTAGES OF PETROLEUM

EVALUATED FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF

MODERN PETROLEUM SCIENCE.
J. F. Kenney

Joint Institute of the Physics of the Earth

Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow;

Gas Resources Corporation, Houston.




ABSTRACT: For almost a century, various predictions have been made that the human race was imminently going to run out of available petroleum. The passing of time has proven all those predictions to have been utterly wrong. It is p ointed out here how all such predictions have depended fundamentally upon an archaic hypothesis from the 18th century that petroleum somehow (miraculously) evolved from biological detritus, and was accordingly limited in abundance. That hypoth esis has been replaced during the past forty years by the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins which has established that petroleum is a primordial material erupted from great depth. Therefore, petroleum abundances are li mited by little more than the quantities of its constituents as were incorporated into the Earth at the time of its formation; and its availability depends upon technological development and exploration competence.







"Rock oil originates as tiny bodies of animals buried in the sediments which, under the influence of increased temperature and pressure acting during an unimaginably long period of time, transform into rock oil [petroleum , or crude oil]"

Academician Mikhailo V. Lomonosov, Slovo o reshdenii metallov ot tryaseniya zemli, Proceedings of the Imperial Academy of Sciences, St. Petersburg, 1757.



"The overwhelming preponderance of geological evidence compels the conclusion that crude oil and natural petroleum gas have no intrinsic connection with biological matter originating near the surface of the Earth. They are prim ordial materials which have been erupted from great depths."

Academician Professor Vladimir B. Porfir’yev, senior petroleum exploration geologist for the U.S.S.R., at the All-Union Conference on Petroleum and Petroleum Geology, Moscow, 1956.

"Statistical thermodynamic analysis has established clearly that hydrocarbon molecules which comprise petroleum require very high pressures for their spontaneous formation, comparable to the pressures required for the same of diamond. In that sense, hydrocarbon molecules are the high-pressure polymorphs of the reduced carbon system as is diamond of elemental carbon. Any notion which might suggest that hydrocarbon molecules spontaneously evolve in the regimes of temperature and pressure characterized by the near-surface of the Earth, which are the regimes of methane creation and hydrocarbon destruction, does not even deserve consideration."

Professor Emmanuil B. Chekaliuk, at All-Union Conference on Petroleum and Petroleum Geology, Moscow, 1968.



"The eleven major and one giant oil and gas fields here described have been discovered in a region which had, forty years ago, been condemned as possessing no potential for petroleum production. The exploration for these fie lds was conducted entirely according to the perspective of the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins. The drilling which resulted in these discoveries was extended purposely deep into the crystalline basement rock, and it is in that basement where the greatest part of the reserves exist. These reserves amount to at least 8,200M metric tons of recoverable oil and 100B cubic meters of recoverable gas, and are thereby comparable to those of the North Slope of Alaska. It is conservatively estimated that, when developed, these fields will provide approximately thirty percent of the energy needs of the industrial nation of Ukraine."

Professor Vladilen A. Krayushkin, Chairman of the Department of Petroleum Exploration, Institute of Geological Sciences, Ukrainian Academy of Sciences, Kiev, and leader of the project for the exploration of the northern flank of the Dni eper-Donets Basin, at the VII-th International Symposium on the Observation of the Continental Crust Through Drilling, Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1994.





The purpose of this article is to present a perspective with which the presently existing data of known petroleum reserves and production ought best to be evaluated. The particular subject of this article is the application to such evaluation of the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins, an extensive body of knowledge which has been developed and applied during the last forty years. Thus this article must be understood as one dealing with the con text of certain statistical data involving the petroleum industry rather than one concerning with the detailed content of any part of that data. The specific data of the quantities of known recoverable petroleum presented by several recent wri ters will be taken in large part without comment. However, many of the conclusions drawn from such data, particularly such as purport to predict the future of available petroleum reserves and of the petroleum industry itself, will be weighed and rejected from the perspective of modern petroleum science.

Throughout the history of the petroleum industry, there have been written numerous articles or reports predicting an imminent demise of that industry all predicated upon assumptions that the supply of producible crude oil in the wor ld was (supposedly) being rapidly depleted and would soon (therefore) be exhausted.(Campbell 1991; Fuller 1993; Campbell 1994; Campbell 1995) In short, the world was (if such were believed), "running out of oil." Happily, all such predictions have, without a single exception, been proven wrong.

Contrarily, the statistics of the international petroleum industry establish that, far from diminishing, the net known recoverable reserves of petroleum have been growing steadily for the past fifty years. Those statistics show tha t, for every year since about 1946, the international petroleum industry has discovered at least five new tons of recoverable oil for every three which have been consumed. As Professor P. Odell has put the circumstance succinctly, instead of "runnin g out of oil," the human race by every measure seems to be "running into oil".(Odell 1984; Odell 1991; Odell 1994)

The remarkable facts of such unrelieved errors for the predictions of available petroleum contrasted against those of its true availability demand explanation. One purpose of this paper is to provide such explanation. The explanat ion involves two parts, both of which obtain from an extensive body of scientific knowledge which peculiarly remains little known outside its country of origin. The first part of the explanation is simply forthcoming by pointing out the single, simple, b ut utterly wrong assumption upon which have been based all the "disaster" predictions connected with fantasized shortages of petroleum. The second part consists even more simply of pointing out how the measured statistics of known petroleum res erves are consistent with what should be expected in light of modern petroleum science.

The errors concerning the abundances of petroleum on Earth all obtain from a common, but fundamental, misunderstanding about petroleum itself. All the predictions about expected shortages of petroleum hang by a single, weak thread on a remnant, eighteenth-century notion which has been thoroughly discredited in this century: the hypothesis that petroleum might somehow originate from biological detritus in sediments near the surface of the Earth. That "biological hypothesis&qu ot; was first published by the famous Russian scientist Mikhailo Vasilyevich Lomonosov in the year 1757 and is quoted above. That notion of an origin of petroleum from biological material has occasioned numerous misnomers concerning petroleum as, for exa mple, "fossil" fuel, and associated, misleading phrases like "vanishing resource." Because the volume of biological matter on Earth is itself limited, the misunderstanding that petroleum might originate from such has given rise conseq uentially to a notion that petroleum should be similarly limited, and somehow in connection with the quantity of biogenic material observed in sediments.

The hypothesis that petroleum might somehow originate from biological detritus in sediments near the surface of the Earth is utterly wrong. It deserves note that Lomonosov himself never meant for that hypothesis to be taken as more than a reasonable suggestion, to be tested against further observation and laboratory experiment. The "biological hypothesis" of petroleum origins has been rejected in this century by scientific petroleum geologists because it is formidably in consistent with the existing geological records "on the ground." That hypothesis has been rejected also by physicists, chemists, and engineers because it violates fundamental physical law.

Lomonosov’s eighteenth-century hypothesis of a biogenic origin of petroleum has been replaced during the past forty years by the modern theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins, an extensive and formidable body of scientific kno wledge which has been developed in the former U.S.S.R., particularly in the countries Russia and Ukraine. The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of petroleum has established that petroleum is a primordial material of deep origin which has been erupted into t he crust of the Earth.

With the elimination of the error that petroleum might be some manifestation of transformed, but limited, biological matter originating on the surface of the Earth, the consequential errors connected with its supposed limits both of quantity and habitat vanish. Thus the errors of all the "doomsday" predictions of petroleum shortages, which have never subsequently occurred, are explained, - or, more simply, eliminated.

Because the explanation of the errors connected with the predictions about petroleum shortages obtains simply from the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins, and because that theory is little known ou tside the former U.S.S.R., its subject deserves at least short mention.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is an extensive body of scientific knowledge covering the subjects of the chemical genesis of hydrocarbon molecules, the physical processes which occasion the ir terrestrial concentration, the dynamical processes of the movement of that material into geological reservoirs of petroleum, and the location and economic production of petroleum. As stated, the modern theory has determined that petroleum is a primord ial material of deep origin which is transported at high pressure via "cold" eruptive processes into the crust of the Earth. The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory is almost unique among what too often pass as "theories" in the field of geology (especially in the U.S.A.) in that it is based not only upon extensive geological observation but also upon rigorous, analytical, physical reasoning. Much of the modern Russian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum genesis developed from the scien ces of chemistry and thermodynamics, and accordingly the modern theory has steadfastly held as a central tenet that the generation of hydrocarbons must conform to the general laws of chemical thermodynamics, - as must likewise all matter. With the except ion of methane, the alkane of the lowest chemical potential of all hydrocarbons, and to a lesser extent ethene, the alkene of the lowest chemical potential of its homologous molecular series, petroleum has no intrinsic association with biological material . Methane is thermodynamically stable in the pressure and temperature regime of the near-surface crust of the Earth and accordingly can be generated there spontaneously, as is indeed observed for such phenomena as swamp gas or sewer gas. However, methan e is practically the sole hydrocarbon molecule possessing such characteristic in that thermodynamic regime; almost all other reduced hydrocarbon molecules excepting only the lightest ones, are high pressure polymorphs of the hydrogen-carbon system. The genesis of heavier hydrocarbons occurs only in multi-kilobar regimes of high pressures†.

The modern Russian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is no longer an item of academic debate among persons in university faculties in the former Soviet Union. This body of knowledge is now approximately a half century ol d and has moved considerably beyond the stages of academic research and scientific testing. Today the modern theory is applied as a useful tool and the guiding perspective in petroleum exploration throughout the former Soviet Union. Such was exactly one of the primary points brought out in a paper delivered at an international conference held in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in May 1994, concerning the discovery of the eleven major and one giant oil and gas fields in the Dnieper-Donets Basin.(Krayushkin, Tcheba nenko et al. 1994)

Because of the general lack of familiarity outside the former U.S.S.R. with the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins, several immediate facts about that body of knowledge deserve to be set forth.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is not new or recent. This theory was first enunciated by Professor Nikolai Kudryavtsev in 1951, almost a half century ago,(Kudryavtsev 1951) and has undergone extensive development, refinement, and application since its introduction. There have been more than four thousand articles published in the Soviet scientific journals, and many books, dealing with the modern theory. This writer is presently co-authoring a book upon the subject of the development and applications of the modern theory of petroleum for which the bibliography requires more than thirty pages.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is not the work of any one single man, - nor of a few men. The modern theory was developed by hundreds of scientists in the (now former ) U.S.S.R., including many of the finest geologists, geochemists, geophysicists, and thermodynamicists of that country. There have now been more than two generations of geologists, geophysicists, chemists, and other scientists in the U.S.S.R. who have wo rked upon and contributed to the development of the modern theory.(Kropotkin 1956; Anisimov, Vasilyev et al. 1959; Kudryavtsev 1959; Porfir'yev 1959; Kudryavtsev 1963; Raznitsyn 1963; Krayushkin 1965; Markevich 1966; Dolenko 1968; Dolenko 1971; Linetskii 1974; Letnikov, Karpov et al. 1977; Porfir'yev and Klochko 1981; Krayushkin 1984)ƒ

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is not untested or speculative. On the contrary, the modern theory was severely challenged by many traditionally-minded geologists at t he time of its introduction; and during the first decade thenafter, the modern theory was thoroughly examined, extensively reviewed, powerfully debated, and rigorously tested. Every year following 1951, there were important scientific conferences organi zed in the U.S.S.R. to debate and evaluate the modern theory, its development, and its predictions. The All-Union conferences in petroleum and petroleum geology in the years 1952-1964/5 dealt particularly with this subject. (During the period when the m odern theory was being subjected to extensive critical challenge and testing, a number of the men pointed out that there had never been any similar critical review or testing of the traditional hypothesis that petroleum might somehow have evolved spontane ously from biological detritus.)

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is not a vague, qualitative hypothesis, but stands as a rigorous analytic theory within the mainstream of the modern physical sciences. In this respect, the modern theory differs fundamentally not only from the previous hypothesis of a biological origin of petroleum but also from all traditional geological hypotheses. Since the nineteenth century, knowledgeable physicists, chemists, the rmodynamicists, and chemical engineers have regarded with grave reservations (if not outright disdain) the suggestion that highly reduced hydrocarbon molecules of high free enthalpy (the constituents of crude oil) might somehow evolve spontaneously from h ighly oxidized biogenic molecules of low free enthalpy. Beginning in 1964, Soviet scientists carried out extensive theoretical statistical thermodynamic analysis which established explicitly that the hypothesis of evolution of hydrocarbon molecules (exce pt methane) from biogenic ones in the temperature and pressure regime of the Earth’s near-surface crust was glaringly in violation of the second law of thermodynamics. They also determined that the evolution of reduced hydrocarbon molecules requires pres sures of magnitudes encountered at depths equal to such of the mantle of the Earth. During the second phase of its development, the modern theory of petroleum was entirely recast from a qualitative argument based upon a synthesis of many qualitative fact s into a quantitative argument based upon the analytical arguments of quantum statistical mechanics and thermodynamic stability theory.(Chekaliuk 1967; Boiko 1968; Chekaliuk 1971; Chekaliuk and Kenney 1991; Kenney 1995) With the transformation of the mod ern theory from a synthetic geology theory arguing by persuasion into an analytical physical theory arguing by compulsion, petroleum geology entered the mainstream of modern science.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of abyssal, abiotic petroleum origins is not controversial nor presently a matter of academic debate. The period of debate about this extensive body of knowledge has been ov er for approximately two decades(Simakov 1986). The modern theory is presently applied extensively throughout the former U.S.S.R. as the guiding perspective for petroleum exploration and development projects. There are presently more than 80 oil and gas fields in the Caspian district alone which were explored and developed by applying the perspective of the modern theory and which produce from the crystalline basement rock.(Krayushkin, Chebanenko et al. 1994) Similarly, such exploration in the western Siberia cratonic-rift sedimentary basin has developed 90 petroleum fields of which 80 produce either partly or entirely from the crystalline basement. The exploration and discoveries of the 11 major and 1 giant fields on the northern flank of the Dneiper -Donets basin have already been noted. There are presently deep drilling exploration projects under way in Azerbaijan, Tatarstan, and Asian Siberia directed to testing potential oil and gas reservoirs in the crystalline basement.

The errors involved in predictions about the future availability of petroleum, inevitably occasioned by an inappropriate application of the rococo hypothesis that petroleum somehow miraculously evolved from limited volumes of biogen ic matter, obtain generally from the very notion of such as a "limited, fossil" material. Correctly, one should better recognize that there exists no more reason to expect a future shortage of petroleum than of, say, mid-oceanic ridge basalt (M ORB). [MORB is the rock characteristic of the loci of the deep suture, spreading zones on the mid-ocean floor where new oceanic crust is constantly being erupted from the mantle of the Earth.] Those predictive errors obtain specifically from neglect of several extremely large potential sources of petroleum, of which a few are set forth here.

(1.) The potential to produce petroleum from the crystalline basement, from volcanic structures, from impact structures, and from non-sedimentary regions generally has been entirely neglected.

(2.) The petroleum potential of the riftogenic suture zones, both subsea and on-shore, have been largely neglected.

(3.) The petroleum which certainly exists and will surely be produced from reservoirs underneath those presently being produced has been almost entirely neglected‡.

(4.) The potential to produce petroleum gas from reservoirs beneath the methane clathrate zones has been completely neglected, as has mostly the same of the methane clathrate reserves themselves.

(5.) The potential that certain of the petroleum fields presently producing may be drawing pressured hydrocarbons from an open and active fault or conduit from the mantle, and therefore, may never be depleted,§ has been entirely neglected, as has the potential to develop non-depleting fields by deep drilling.(Mahfoud and Beck 1995)

In view of these considerations, there stands no reason to worry about, and even less to plan for, any predicted demise of the petroleum industry based upon a vanishing of petroleum reserves. On the contrary, these considerations c ompel additional investment and development in the technology and skills of deep drilling, of deep seismic measurement and interpretation, of the reservoir properties of crystalline rock, and of the associated completion and production practices which should be applied in such non-traditional reservoirs.

Not only are any predictions that the world is "running out of oil" invalid, so also are suggestions that the petroleum exploration and production industry is a "mature" or "declining" one. This writer ’s experience, gained from working in the former U.S.S.R. during the past five years, has provided compelling evidence that the petroleum industry is only now entering its adolescence.

LINKY
Yes I know it was first published in 1995 but it has been circulating again so I think it is at least passingly relevant to younger folks misunderstanding of how real world forces shape petroleum supplies.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 15:21:05

God, what drivel.

What does this bonehead think coal is? Was coal formed abiotically as well? Clearly organic fossilization is real and substantial. Trying to appeal to rock chemistry as "the only explanation" is inane. How could complex organic compounds originate from deep in the Earth? Where are all the super complex silicon based compounds? In fact, most of the minerals we know exist because of oxygen and it is life that has released oxygen from CO2 in order for them to form. Assuming that everything of importance in the Earth's crust is non biogenic is inane.

This pseudo-acadameic rubbish is not worth the time of day. It is a legacy of the Stalin period when all sorts of crank "science" was in vogue such as Lysenko's alternative theory of genetics which was total garbage as well. If we are to accept the notion that peak oil is prevented by abiotic oil formation then we can estimate the rate of this production. It is fast enough to offset human extraction. Stop and think about this for a moment, it implies that without human extraction there would be oil accumulating at the rate of billions of barrels per year in various "reservoir" locations. This would be happening for hundreds of millions if not billions of years at least. We would be living on some sort of planet version of Titan. Hydrocarbon concentrations in the environment would be insanely high.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby diemos » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 16:31:01

dissident wrote:Stop and think about this for a moment, it implies that without human extraction there would be oil accumulating at the rate of billions of barrels per year in various "reservoir" locations. This would be happening for hundreds of millions if not billions of years at least. We would be living on some sort of planet version of Titan. Hydrocarbon concentrations in the environment would be insanely high.


Now, now, dissident. Don't bring reality and simple cross-checks into this.

Logic, reason, and critical thinking are just tools of patriarchal oppression. \sarc
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Yonnipun » Mon 09 Nov 2020, 14:39:09

Which theory sounds more plausible - oil is formed in the earth s crust under certain favourable conditions or a a bunch of dinosaurs die and oil is simply somehow formed? Needless to say that I am now pretty sure the whole peak oil thing is hoax.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 09 Nov 2020, 21:28:16

Yonnipun wrote:Which theory sounds more plausible - oil is formed in the earth s crust under certain favourable conditions or a a bunch of dinosaurs die and oil is simply somehow formed? Needless to say that I am now pretty sure the whole peak oil thing is hoax.


Oil is not the result of Dinosaurs, it is the result of algae which is just about the oldest green plant type we know to exist being buried in sedimentary beds and being compressed and heated by geological forces. If you are going to call the science into question you have to at least try and refute the actual science, not some alley-oop cartoon from your imagination.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 09 Nov 2020, 21:45:16

Yonnipun wrote:Which theory sounds more plausible - oil is formed in the earth s crust under certain favourable conditions or a a bunch of dinosaurs die and oil is simply somehow formed? Needless to say that I am now pretty sure the whole peak oil thing is hoax.


Not a hoax as much as a bastardization of some pretty basic resource economic issues, related to geology. By folks who don't understand geology. Or economics. Or resources.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Yonnipun » Tue 10 Nov 2020, 10:59:43

Oil is created inside of earth s crust where conditions are favourable. Those conditions could be replicated aritificially in the lab - called Fischer-Tropsche process. The tale about dinosaurs and biomass rotting and transforming to oil is a fairy tale. Therefore the whole thing about peakoil is a hoax.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 10 Nov 2020, 12:13:42

Yonnipun wrote:Oil is created inside of earth s crust where conditions are favourable. Those conditions could be replicated aritificially in the lab - called Fischer-Tropsche process. The tale about dinosaurs and biomass rotting and transforming to oil is a fairy tale. Therefore the whole thing about peakoil is a hoax.


Even if the Abiotic hypothesis were correct the consumption rate of our current civilization outstrips generation to such a massive extent that oil availability will peak and decline.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 12 Nov 2020, 19:21:00

Yonnipun wrote:Oil is created inside of earth s crust where conditions are favourable. Those conditions could be replicated aritificially in the lab - called Fischer-Tropsche process. The tale about dinosaurs and biomass rotting and transforming to oil is a fairy tale. Therefore the whole thing about peakoil is a hoax.


If you honestly believe that why hang around a website dedicated to Peak Oil?
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sun 14 Mar 2021, 18:32:21

does this need discussion in 2021? Really abiotic oil has been debunked many, many times already.
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby aadbrd » Mon 15 Mar 2021, 13:19:52

DesuMaiden wrote:does this need discussion in 2021? Really abiotic oil has been debunked many, many times already.


You bumped a thread that hadn't had a reply to it since last November so it's not like this is much of a going concern anymore.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 19 Mar 2021, 15:06:22

I for one is happy for Desu to bring the subject back up. Being a petroleum geologist for 41 years I'm seldom one of the smartest people in the room. Unless it's a room full of petroleum geologists. LOL

As far as I'm concerned every one of the millions of bbls of oil I helped to discover had an abiotic origin. For the less evolved out there let me explain for the uptenth time: geologist don't explore for oil: we explore for potential hydrocarbon TRAPS that might contain oil. How the oil originated that could be contained in the traps is not part of the calculus. For all I know every bbl I've drilled into was created abiotically, biologically, by God or by Satan (part of his plan for to aid man in his destruction of the earth's ecology).

It made no difference in my efforts to identify and drill potential TRAPS where hydrocarbons could accumulate and ALSO BE PRODUCED FROM. The vast majority of oil has accumulated in TRAPS where SHALE is the rock formation. Sure, we've learned how to frac and produce some of those shale formations but those probably represent less the 1% of the oil bearing shale formations that exist on the planet. I've have personally drilled thru many hundreds of thousands of feet (if not millions) of shale formations that returned oil to the surface along with the rock cuttings. Geologists much smarter then the Rockman estimate that less then 1% of the oil generated in the earth's crust is capable of being produced. Finding oil by drilling is easier then finding big tits at a topless club in Houston. Finding oil in producible TRAPS is the real challenge for petroleum geologists...regardless of where that oil was created, Just as it is for finding women with big tits (regardless of how they were created: naturally or "abioticly") that will let them play with those tits. At least for free, anyway. LOL
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby diemos » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 16:19:17

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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby Armageddon » Sun 09 May 2021, 12:33:29

ROCKMAN wrote:I for one is happy for Desu to bring the subject back up. Being a petroleum geologist for 41 years I'm seldom one of the smartest people in the room. Unless it's a room full of petroleum geologists. LOL

As far as I'm concerned every one of the millions of bbls of oil I helped to discover had an abiotic origin. For the less evolved out there let me explain for the uptenth time: geologist don't explore for oil: we explore for potential hydrocarbon TRAPS that might contain oil. How the oil originated that could be contained in the traps is not part of the calculus. For all I know every bbl I've drilled into was created abiotically, biologically, by God or by Satan (part of his plan for to aid man in his destruction of the earth's ecology).

It made no difference in my efforts to identify and drill potential TRAPS where hydrocarbons could accumulate and ALSO BE PRODUCED FROM. The vast majority of oil has accumulated in TRAPS where SHALE is the rock formation. Sure, we've learned how to frac and produce some of those shale formations but those probably represent less the 1% of the oil bearing shale formations that exist on the planet. I've have personally drilled thru many hundreds of thousands of feet (if not millions) of shale formations that returned oil to the surface along with the rock cuttings. Geologists much smarter then the Rockman estimate that less then 1% of the oil generated in the earth's crust is capable of being produced. Finding oil by drilling is easier then finding big tits at a topless club in Houston. Finding oil in producible TRAPS is the real challenge for petroleum geologists...regardless of where that oil was created, Just as it is for finding women with big tits (regardless of how they were created: naturally or "abioticly") that will let them play with those tits. At least for free, anyway. LOL




Have you ever witnessed an oil field replenish itself?
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 09 May 2021, 15:05:14

"Have you ever witnessed an oil field replenish itself?" Yes: by doing what had earned me a damn good living over 4 decades. My specialty since my beginning in the oil patch in 1975 was redeveloping old oil fields. IOW finding oil that had not been produced for one reason or another. In fact my last successful project before calling it quits 3 years ago was producing a shit load of oil from a 4,600' deep reservoir that virtually every geologist/engineer swore was depleted. I developed the concept in the late 90's but could not get any company to believe the potential. The field was discovered in 1946 and production decline to stripper level: 10 bopd or less and a shit load of salt water. Finally I went to work for a billionaire with no education in geology or engineering. He was a physics Ph.D that had worked for NASA long ago but eventually was one of the first to develop high speed computer trading on Wall Street. Where his fortune came from. But enjoyed using his Big Money to play in other fields such as marine salvage, oil and gas and numerous others that interested him. Fortunately he liked my confidence despite not understanding all of my concept. He made as much money betting on people as on technology.

Back to that projected at that nearly "tapped out" field. Remember wells each doing less then 10 bopd along with hundreds of bbls of salt water per day. My first well didn't drill far away from such wells: the offset wells had been plugged and abandoned years earlier. And I'm talking about being surrounded by multiple such wells that each were only about 1,000' from my new well. And remember my new well was completed in the same reservoir that had produced 26 MILLION BBLS OF OIL. My well tested at 1,500 bopd and we put it online at 600 bopd...sound production management. And again this first well was drilled in that same reservoir as the immediate offsetting wells had produced and eventually depleted and abandoned. Two other companies figured out how I did it: can't keep much secret in the oil since we all use outside contractors to drill our wells. And one of those companies controlled most of the leases in my depleted field.

Would have loved to have published a paper showing all those companies my idea was correct. But my billionaire owner had me on a nondisclosure agreement. And he was very much against anyone benefitting from projects he gambled his money. Not 100% sure but I believe I was the first geologist to use this new technology in the onshore Texas region. And doing it on my laptop sitting at home in my recliner. LOL.

BTW: when I was a puppy geologist at Mobil Oil in the 70's they had already recognized the production anomaly. I believed Mobil's initially thoughts were proven correct: as reservoir pressures declined it caused oil to leak up though facture systems from deeper reservoirs (and thus of a different age) and recharge those "depleting reservoirs".

A lot of theories come from folks that don't no shit about oil and gas production. Concepts that any young geologist/engineer can grasp. I don't usually respond to such fucked up thinking because it would require teaching a simplified short course to those "armchair quarterbacks" that probably aren't smart enough to follow a dumbed down discussion.

But as I've pointed out many times before: 99% of challenge is figuring out where the oil trapped and not where or how it is generated. But that would take another short course and I'm too old to waste whatever time I have before my MS buries me. LOL.
Last edited by ROCKMAN on Sun 09 May 2021, 15:18:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 3

Unread postby diemos » Sun 09 May 2021, 15:17:22

ROCKMAN wrote:A lot of theories come from folks that don't no shit about oil and gas production.


I don't know shit about how to extract oil and gas from the ground.

But I know that it was all created more than 100 million years ago and is finite.
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