[SeaGypsy]

Yep.
Also the Lebs have destroyed Australian biker culture, taking over every major old biker gang & removing the old ex military ethos to replace it with ultra violence & complete lack of moral compunction. This shift has triggered draconian anti biker laws in response, making being a patched biker a crime.

[Paulo1]

re statement: "Maybe a UK or Canada or Australia are all just too small to have so many muslim immigrants and it's overwhelming. "

UK maybe, reaping the fruits of their colonialism. UK has 4.5% Muslim. Same for France with up to 10%. We have 3% Muslim population in Canada, however, the recent nutjobs in Ottawa and Montreal would have been nutjobs no matter where they lived and doesn't have too much to do with being Muslim. (That seems to be convenient excuse) Austrailia has just 2.2% Muslim.

USA has .8% Muslim. Now, which country do you feel safest in as regards to violent terrorism? It ain't USA, that is for sure.

[SeaGypsy]

Those percentages are very misleading. Look at the growth first then the spread of Islamic Lawfare.

[Sixstrings]

re statement: "Maybe a UK or Canada or Australia are all just too small to have so many muslim immigrants and it's overwhelming. "

UK maybe, reaping the fruits of their colonialism. UK has 4.5% Muslim. Same for France with up to 10%. We have 3% Muslim population in Canada, however, the recent nutjobs in Ottawa and Montreal would have been nutjobs no matter where they lived and doesn't have too much to do with being Muslim. (That seems to be convenient excuse) Austrailia has just 2.2% Muslim.

USA has .8% Muslim. Now, which country do you feel safest in as regards to violent terrorism? It ain't USA, that is for sure.

Thanks for getting those numbers. Hm.. well.. Paulo..

In America we do not have any "Lebanese biker gangs" or muslims taking hostages and such.

If UK is 5% muslim and Francis 10% ( ), then I can see why they've got a bigger problem that you don't see in the US, since we're only .8% muslim. These other places in the West are overwhelmed.

I don't want to be a racist or whatever, but I think I have to conclude that is is not good for muslims to be too great a percent versus Christians, within a Western nation. You get up to 5 and 10% of pop and there's problems.

[Sixstrings]

Some reporting from CNN:

The terrorist is an Iranian native, immigrant to Australia. He's got a long rap sheet of crimes and violence, in Oz. He's a self-styled "sheikh" and "spiritual healer." He was currently on bail for sexual assault, doing sex assaults while "spiritual healing" women.

Or maybe I have that backwards, he's on bail for something, he's also charged with trying to hire someone to kill his ex wife or something.

He's also been arrested before for sending threatening letters to Afghanistan war vet families. Quite a character -- why was he on the streets to start with? WHY did this guy get bail, just free on the streets not even monitoring????

The standoff is over now, the terrorist was moving hostages and about five of them made a run for it and and fired some shots and that's when the swat teams stormed the cafe. He is dead now, there may be another death, and there are injuries.

Authorities handled this well, waiting until night gave them the advantage of night vision gear which he didn't have.

I would still say though that for any political extreme muslim terrorism, they should move in right away with swat teams and never negotiate.

That's the only way to defeat terrorism. If you authorities drag it out and negotiate, then that's giving the terrorists what they want -- attention.

[Paulo1]

re: "In America we do not have any "Lebanese biker gangs" or muslims taking hostages and such."

Oh yeah, everything is much easier to understand without those damned Muslim gangs.

I remember someone named Patty Hearst and the SLA. Or how about The Weathermen? Naw, no real hostages except for Sandy Hook and Columbine, and on and on. Would it matter of they were called Muslim? Bikers? Hells Angels, Bandidos, Outlaws, Warlocks, Vagos, whatever. Naw, there's no biker crime. How about the Mexican mafia? Crips and Bloods + sub types? The 30+ Asian gangs? The latin gangs numbering 100? How about the Mafia families? The Irish, the prison gangs, or the Russian mafia? Plus, the Jewish and middle eastern gangs.

The literally thousands of US gangs and their results make the odd Islamic nutjob hostage event look like a Sunday School Picnic.

what do the stats say?


US 4.7 homicides per 100,000
Canada 1.6 homicides per 100,000 people
Australia 1.1 per 100,000 people
UK 1 per 100,00 people
France 1 per 100,000 people

As for hostage situations, certainly war torn countries in crisis are far more likely to have hostage incidents than relatively peaceful ones. However, I would venture a guess the rate mimics the homicide stats.

regards

[Sixstrings]

Oh yeah, everything is much easier to understand without those damned Muslim gangs.

Well, every country has a different situation. But SG was talking about this before a long time ago, the "Lebanese biker gangs" and I remember I just thought that sounded so silly, I can't imagine "msulim biker gangs" riding around causing mayhem. That's like a darn movie or something.

The way SG talks about it, it sounds like it's some big problem over there. We certainly have probs in the US, but overall crime and violence have been down for decades.

Our gang problem is more like latino gangbangers and african american crime, and we've got problems around the border with Mexican drug cartels.

It's just kind of wild, immigrants would go all the way to Australia from Lebanon just to wind up forming biker gangs and rampaging the outback like a mad max movie? I mean, Lebanon is a long way off from Australia.

There are larger issues to all this, what we are really talking about are minorities trying to fit in with a majority population. And issues of immigration, and how much is too much too fast, and issues of assimilation.

I don't know a lot about Australia, if muslim biker gangs are a big problem or not. (the biker thing just sounds odd, it sounds like something from the '50s or '70s over here, nostalgiac. I never hear about any dangerous "biker gangs" over here anyhow.)

P.S. regards to you too Paulo, and it's nice how you look up statistics in your posts. It's good info. I was wondering about percentage of muslim pop in the various countries and you went and posted it.

Your crime stats are relevant, too. If we're talking about crime you have to look at the actual facts. US has more crime then elsewhere, though it is more isolated in ghetto areas.

It's all perception and what is considered the norm. If an Australia has such a low crime rate, then any crime is going to seem like a huge problem and big deal, because they aren't used to it. Whereas we have more crime here, but things seem okay because at least it's been down since the '90s.

Terrorism is a whole other thing though -- I think this guy in Australia was just a lone wolf nut, but it's still fueling ISIS. The real crime in terrorism isn't the hostages, it's everyone watching it on CNN and SOCIETY being "terrorized."

I think whenever something like this happens, terrorism, there shouldn't even be a bunch of media play about it or drag out a hostage crisis. All that does is give them what they want, the attention and propaganda. SWAT teams should move right in right away in these situations and shut it down, that's just my opinion.

EDIT: as for this incident, I'll conclude the Aussie authorities handled it very well. It didn't drag on too long. They moved in when they had too, I guess after he fired shots. Sadly one hostage dead.

I guess it's a philosophical debate over the best way to handle terrorist hostage taking. You of course want to save lives, but on the other hand if it starts getting out of hand like hostage taking back in the 70s then the real crime is the terrorists getting to talk about their demands and their propaganda. What is the best, in general? To negotiate it out, or shut it down fast?

There's another problem with the ISIS hostages in Syria -- that the USA will not pay ransom, yet Europe does.

[sparky]

.
The term "lebs" is a short form of middle east Muslims , proper people from Lebanon are often Christians
a fast disapearing section of the middle East population , due to Muslim religious cleansing
" The way SG talks about it, it sounds like it's some big problem over there"
yes it is , whole suburbs of Sydney are ghettos where local sheiks rule

[Paulo1]

re: "The way SG talks about it, it sounds like it's some big problem over there"
yes it is , whole suburbs of Sydney are ghettos where local sheiks rule"

It is always about poverty and opportunities. Always. (Well, most of the time).

Thus, the origins of NA Mafia, the Irish gangs, whatever.

But I would very much like to say that if we, (Canada too), were not over in the ME we would not have terrorist activity from Muslims. Why are we there? I believe it is for multi-national oil companies and support service companies. Nuts. The oil would be sold on the world market, anyway. US buys Venezuelan oil, despite the rancour and hate expressed from both sides. Hell, if Cuba had oil the US would be buying that as well.

All of us need to go home and treat others with respect. Once in awhile a truly bad leader invites outside interference, however, in many cases outside interference creates the problem. The list is too long to list here, but let's start with Ukraine and Libya to name just two.

cheerio...paulo

[SeaGypsy]

6 being fecitious. The USA has had vastly more loony tune Muslim events than Australia.

[Shaved Monkey]

......and we find out he was a lone wolf nut job not a "terrorist".
Doesnt like government recent conversion to Islam used to be into black magic and spiritual healing,lots of priors.

His Lawyers description of his former client

"This is a one-off random individual.

"It's not a concerted terrorism event or act.

"It's a damaged goods individual who's done something outrageous."

http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/sydney-sie ... 27u1e.html
...........time to stop hyperventilating.
For governments to run armies and do bad things they need enemies
Islam has replaced communism because its convenient.

[SeaGypsy]

It's more than convenient, it's apt. Can anyone present a list of atrocities done by communists since WW2 which in any way compares to those done by Islamists since 2001? The answer is clearly NO.

Communism doesn't advocate: child marriage, the killing of homosexuals, disbelievers & adulterers, the requirement for 4 adult communist male witnesses to convict a rapist, half inheritance for women, slaughter of strangers as punishment for the actions of their government. Islam does. The Koran does.

I have spent time in Indonesia & met many very, very nice people from a Muslim background. I do not doubt that the vast majority of Muslims want no part in the hideous activities of their Salafist brethren. Anyone reading what I have written about Islam & Muslims, without their apologist glasses on, can see that I support modernisation & integration of Muslims.

There were some really good speeches made by Muslim leaders yesterday. Over 40 major Muslim community leaders came out strongly against what happened yesterday, before it was known that this guy was who he was. There have not been a chorus of the same leaders coming out talking about this guy being a lone wolf lunatic, which he clearly was. The communities have handled the situation with maturity & decorum.

[Loki]

6 being fecitious. The USA has had vastly more loony tune Muslim events than Australia.

One would expect that based solely on sheer numbers. It isn't known with any degree of accuracy how many Muslims there are in the US. Wikipedia says 2,595,000 as of 2010, based on a Pew report. That same report says there were 399,000 Muslims in Australia in 2010.

This US embassy report gives an estimate of 2 to 7 million. And the 2011 Australian census apparently says there were 476,291 Muslims.

Whatever the exact number, the US Muslim population is certainly an order of magnitude greater than Australia's. One would therefore expect an order of magnitude more Muslim shenanigans.

What has me puzzled about this incident in Sydney is why the Australian government let this whackjob remain in the country. Why not expel him immediately following the letter writing incident? Or the other crimes he committed? The US media is reporting he was a refugee, so I'm assuming he wasn't an Australian citizen?

[Loki]

......and we find out he was a lone wolf nut job not a "terrorist".

Lone wolf nut job and terrorist are not mutually exclusive. If the lone nut job thinks he's advancing a political position through violence against innocent civilians, he's also a terrorist.

[SeaGypsy]

What has me puzzled about this incident in Sydney is why the Australian government let this whackjob remain in the country. Why not expel him immediately following the letter writing incident? Or the other crimes he committed? The US media is reporting he was a refugee, so I'm assuming he wasn't an Australian citizen?

I'm unsure if he had become a citizen. We deport non citizen criminals pretty regularly, but with refugees it's a problem in that there is often nowhere we can legally deport them to. There are dozens of people in permanent immigration detention, deemed refugees, but too dangerous to release into the community, unable to be deported as nobody wants them.

[Sixstrings]

yes it is , whole suburbs of Sydney are ghettos where local sheiks rule

Okay well there you go, bingo there is the problem.

From a USA perspective, this is the situation we wouldn't want to have over here. It's the problem that France has, and UK, and I guess Australia too. You don't want to have poor muslims on benefits. I really think that's what causes the radicalization, and it's a phenomenon we don't have the in the US because as far as I can tell our muslims here aren't poor.

They're here running businesses or they went to school here, etc. There's a mosque in my town and they've sure got a lot of money, nice cars.

[SeaGypsy]

You are full of shit 6. Who did the Boston bombings? How many moronic looney yank Muslims have cut their colleagues or family members heads off? How many bomb plots have been foiled. You are full of it.

[Sixstrings]

You are full of shit 6. Who did the Boston bombings? How many moronic looney yank Muslims have cut their colleagues or family members heads off? How many bomb plots have been foiled. You are full of it.

You mentioned just two incidents. The Boston thing was more like a typical crazy kid school shooting.

The latter was like workplace flip out -- but yes, THAT ONE was definitely freaky. I'm not arguing with ya SG, it's definitely concerning, what happened at that factory is the kind of horrific muslim looney tunes stuff you used to read about happening in London.

What we don't have here though are as many homegrown muslim conspiracies. And we don't want any either, that's for sure.

I forget the numbers on it, but a lot more have gone over to ISIS from France and UK than the US. And I heard a horrific thing on CNN about an Australian muslim that went over to ISIS. That news story is so horrible and disgusting I will not even repeat it, holy sh*t, it's bad bad stuff.

I'm saying you guys and UK and France and Germany have a bigger problem than we do, but that could change. For the Americans on the forum, it's something we need to think about. All those crazy Glenn Beck sharia law scares are actually real. We see it happening now, UK, France, Australia.

I don't want to be a racist but we really do not want "ghettos" that are "controlled by muftis and clerics," jesus h. christ.

[Loki]

What has me puzzled about this incident in Sydney is why the Australian government let this whackjob remain in the country. Why not expel him immediately following the letter writing incident? Or the other crimes he committed? The US media is reporting he was a refugee, so I'm assuming he wasn't an Australian citizen?

I'm unsure if he had become a citizen. We deport non citizen criminals pretty regularly, but with refugees it's a problem in that there is often nowhere we can legally deport them to. There are dozens of people in permanent immigration detention, deemed refugees, but too dangerous to release into the community, unable to be deported as nobody wants them.

We have the same problem with plenty of foreign nationals. Nothing that can't be solved by a one-way ticket back to their home country, forced expulsion from the aircraft, and a wiping of hands afterwards. Iran's problems should not be Australia's.

I'm personally not a fan of refugee status. Wouldn't bother me if it was eliminated entirely. Here in my corner of the globe we had a radical Muslim Somali refugee unsuccessfully try to bomb a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in downtown Portland. He's currently in prison. We'd all be better off if he never washed up on our shores to begin with.

[Sixstrings]

Here in my corner of the globe we had a radical Muslim Somali refugee unsuccessfully try to bomb a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in downtown Portland. He's currently in prison.

Hm, that sounds like a crazy muslim looney tunes thing you read about happening in Canada.

Oregon is close to Canada. Oregon is lefty. Maybe there is a connection. We just don't have this problem in the red states, that I'm aware of, yet we do have plenty of muslims here.

(I agree with you about the refugee status thing Loki, that's Just Asking For Trouble and that should stop cold, no more refugee visas from exotic back bush locales like Afghanistan or Somalia or whatever. We really need to be careful with our immigration that we are doing. Moderate muslims are okay, straight out of the back bush and the 8th century is maybe not okay.)