[efarmer]

I think perhaps North Korea suggested this to South Korea.
This is so awful it ain't even wrong.

[yesplease]

This kind of infrastructure does not sound cheap however, so not sure it's worth using in cities. The bottleneck for EVs is longer distance travelling. Recharging at traffic lights doesn't solve that. We should equip a highway lane with this stuff.

I don't think it's practical for highways, unless we're talking about the completely backed up ones, due to higher power (and energy per mile) requirements at high speeds and a much smaller charging window. That will probably be rail and conventional vehicles.with fairly expensive fuel in the future. Infrastructure is supposedly about half a million per mile compared to rail at fifteen to one hundred and eighty million per mile, and since we'll only see charging at lights/bus stops/etc, it'll be much cheaper than that in practice.

In an ironic fashion, I can also see public-access charge-as-you-go schemes like this resulting in an increased number of stalled EVs on the side of the road. Assuming that charging strips will be in limited areas (i.e. first four car-lengths at stoplights, some streets in cities, etc.), I can see people pushing their vehicles too far in the hope or assumption that they will fortuitously land on a recharge strip somewhere along the line. Then, surprise, surprise, they hit all green lights and run out of juice, or go empty sitting in traffic.

To me, taking the burden of keeping a vehicle fueled/charged away from the user is a bad idea. Where would the money to pay for the electricity coursing through these strips come from?

Charges would probably be associated with a transponder, so that wouldn't be too hard. I'm also thinking any range estimates would include a worst case scenario, kinda like most cars still have a couple gallons even if the fuel gauge needle is at empty, since people sometimes try to run close to the limit.

We have these things already. I've seen them all over in New York City. It is pretty exciting stuff, let me tell you

The roads are metal and real skinny and the vehicles have metal wheels and go choo choo choo choo.

Oh. Those are electric trains?

Seriously! Why spend tens or hundreds of thousands of bucks per mile for stuff like this that can power electric autos and buses when we can spend tens or hundreds of millions per mile for a light rail system through a dense city. Double bonus points if it on operates at a fraction of it's capacity because dealing with imminent domain crap made for an ineffective route. Mixed mode transportation is fer losers!

Anyhoo, we'll probably eventually see APS for trams where it's worthwhile, light rail between cities, and stuff like this for private autos and shuttle services like buses and taxis.

I think perhaps North Korea suggested this to South Korea.
This is so awful it ain't even wrong.

Oh my gosh I know! Why would South Korea, a country that already has a lot of electric high speed rail and subways and a bunch of battery manufacturing facilities want to expand electric auto/bus use? Mixed mode electric transportation is for losers. The best way to combat rising oil prices is to do nothing about them! In fact, they should probably scrap existing electric rail while they're at it just to insure oil futures go up as much as possible.

[yesplease]

yesplease, I believe you are referring to so-called "green:" (that's in very qualified quotes) gimmick called Personal Rapid Transportation PRT.

First time I've heard of 'em. I suggest re-evaluating your belief system, mixed mode transportation just means using two or more forms instead of just one.

It is in actuality a brown (i.e non-environmental) hybrid that blends and then spits out the worst of the ICE and the train.

The worst of the train I can see, but how can it combine that with the worst of the ICE when all the listed projects use motors?

But it is kind of neat in a Jetsony/Kinky sort of way.

To each their own I suppose, but it's butt fugly IMO, and kinda expensive/useless compared to a dedicated tram and EVs if appropriate.

[yesplease]

So I see you are passive-f#@cking people again through your signature? Not nice.

If people flame I flame back, you of all people should be well aware of this by now. Well, when you aren't posting about how you're going to you-know-what people in their rooms. Have you sent similar letters to your local LEOs yet? I'm sure they'll find it hilarious.

edit:

Schmuto wrote:
did you see that the new battery will be the size of a sugar cube and will power 18 wheelers?
[...]
That'd make them about a 10" by 10" cube!!

I read the thread in question and it was pretty clear to me that you claimed a lithium battery cube 10in*10in*10in capable of powering a vehicle. The rest was semantics.

Where exactly was the post where I stated anything about a lithium battery cube of ~1000 cubic inches? If it's that clear to you I'm sure you can at least provide a quote. Unless of course you're trolling again, and in that case I guess I'll see more flaming from the peanut gallery in short order.

[efarmer]

Inductive coupling without the coils sharing a physical core of
laminated steel (or ferritic compound for higher frequencies) is
a very lossy proposition and in my opinion a misuse of the
electrical energy intended to end up in a charged battery.
I think there are many cheaper and more direct ways of turning
electrical power into waste heat without all the fuss and investment.

Can it be done? Sure. But I would rather just put paper money into
a wood stove and cut right to the chase. It would be nice though,
you could lay your toothbrush on the road and charge it right up
while the frame on your bicycle, pulsating in the H field and
singing with eddy currents warmed your fanny. Oh, and of course
I could make you a turnpike toaster, since I know you love toast.

Q. Any of you commuters hungry for toast?

A. Yes Please.

[yesplease]

At a little less than half the efficiency of traditional charging it's certainly not going to win any awards in that category but it's also not a deal breaker. EVs are already at about 3-4 times the mpg equivalent, so going with 1.5-2 times instead isn't a killer, especially in this context since it won't be for all charging, just some. Specifically, most consumer vehicles will still get most of their juice the old fashioned way at ~90-95% efficiency, and buses/taxis can stay out longer, albeit at a greater cost.

It would be nice though,
you could lay your toothbrush on the road and charge it right up
while the frame on your bicycle, pulsating in the H field and
singing with eddy currents warmed your fanny.

You probably won't have to worry about that, unless you specifically build (probably funky looking) bicycle that has the same resonant frequency as the chargers, figured out the proper authentication, and waited over the chargers, in front of traffvck.

Two resonant objects of the same resonant frequency tend to exchange energy efficiently, while interacting weakly with extraneous off-resonant objects.

Moffatt, an MIT undergraduate in physics, explains: "The crucial advantage of using the non-radiative field lies in the fact that most of the power not picked up by the receiving coil remains bound to the vicinity of the sending unit, instead of being radiated into the environment and lost."

That said, if you think building a custom bike so you can suck up some energy and warm your buns when standing out in the middle of the street is your idea of a (Darwinizing) good time, then as a personal opinion that's fine I guess.

[efarmer]

I admire powerful imaginations.

[yesplease]

That is exactly the attitude that makes this forum great! Why bother with reasonable conversation when you can make comparisons to North Korea while flaming? Talking about stuf like adults is fer loosers.

[efarmer]

I have designed many battery chargers including processor
controlled and enabled ones as well as resonant circuits
and tanks. If I offered a client one that wasted more power
and had an enormous burden of embodied energy,
distributed installation and constant maintenance,
than what their market competition was offering
they would and should fire me. At a time when
the EV industry is attempting to become viable,
this system would raise the political, financial,
and logistical bar high enough to kill itself and
give it's industry an enormous setback. You
don't win market share from ICE fleets by demanding
they rework the road system for your new EV design.

[yesplease]

This is not an exclusive situation and will not kill the EV industry based on that assumption. All it provides is on the go charging at a higher cost for vehicles that may require (buses and taxis) or want (private autos) greater uptime w/o the need to stop and charge someplace else. There will still be plenty of conventional chargers. Unless your clients are specifically looking for these characteristics, of course they wouldn't want them, but they also wouldn't accept a small utility cart if they want a bus. Market share will be won from conventional vehicles by offering a varied and competitive range of products. Being able to charge buses on the go, even if it means a portion of the fuel costs are twice as high, is probably fairly attractive compared to buying additional buses to cover the downtime needed for charging and/or additional batteries needed to run for a whole day.

[small_steps]

This might be an interesting idea that could be tried at bus stops per instance. Operating at resonance should prop up the power factor, and using litz wire will kill off most of the skin effects. However, using litz wire would generally limit the voltage used. From what I recall, getting the frequency tuned and matching the transmitter and receiver impedance is the difficulty. Seems the korean researchers have missed some work that shows that the efficiencies involved in transmitting kW class power over chassis height distances is much greater than what they claim can be done. Seems that they need to review the literature...

[louistran]

Here's a similar idea in the UK of a future bus that uses both electricity and biodiesel for propulsion and magnets for navigation.

http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/01/31/ele ... by-capoco/

[pablonite]

Flashback

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia- ... 91698.html

Thousands of troops from the US and South Korea have begun 10 days of joint military exercises, despite threats of reprisals from North Korea which has denounced the annual drill as a rehearsal for invasion.

Some 18,000 American and an undisclosed number of South Korean troops began the exercise on Monday, military officials from both sides said.

Kim Yong-kyu, a US military spokesman, said the exercises are aimed at rehearsing the deployment of US reinforcements in the event of an emergency on the Korean peninsula.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1032610

Hopes are fading for the rescue of 46 sailors missing 12 hours after an explosion on a South Korean military ship that sank in one of the country's worst naval disasters, even as authorities continue searching the murky waters near the sea border with rival North Korea.

Navy and coast guard vessels, as well as air force planes, were combing the waters near South Korea's Baengnyeong Island where the 1200-ton Cheonan sank early on Saturday in bad weather and rough waves during a routine patrolling mission.

Let's just all hope that a suspicious explosion doesn't suddenly turn into an emergency.

[eXpat]

S. Korea bank runs cause more suspensions

SEOUL -- South Korea suspended operations at four more savings banks on Saturday after runs developed as customers rushed to get at their money despite official assurances the financial sector was secure.
The move came just days after two other institutions had their activities suspended and state-owned finance groups joined forces with commercial banks to pledge billions of dollars in liquidity for a sector beset by souring property loans.

One of those suspended on Thursday was the Busan Savings Bank, South Korea's largest in terms of assets.

The Financial Services Commission (FSC) said Saturday it was suspending three affiliates of Busan Savings Bank — Jungang Busan Savings Bank, Busan II Savings Bank and Jeonju Savings Bank — as well as Bohae Bank for six months each.

“Considering recent waves of deposit withdrawals, available liquidity, remaining deposits and capacity to borrow, the FSC concluded that they might face a situation where they are unable to pay customers,” the FSC said.

The freeze may be lifted if the banks recoup their liquidity, it said.

The FSC on Thursday put a six-month block on the operations of Busan Savings Bank and its affiliate, the Daejeon Mutual Savings Bank, and announced steps to support others that may be hit by increasingly precarious-looking property loans.

Busan is the country's biggest savings bank, with assets worth 3.74 trillion won (US$3.4 billion). Last month, regulators shut down Samhwa Mutual Savings Bank which became insolvent because of soured property loans.

Woori Finance Holdings Co., South Korea's second-largest financial group by assets, was chosen on Friday as the preferred bidder for Samhwa being sold by the state-financed Korea Deposit Insurance Corp. (KDIC).

China Post

As Korean Bank Run Accelerates, Financial Services Chairman Deposits $17,864 To Demonstrate All Is Well

Last Friday we reported that the soon to be quite pervasive spectacle of running to the bank only to find there is no money available, had spread to Korea. At that time only two banks were involved, although we speculated that "while the bank run at Busan was driven by capital inadequacy it may promptly spread to the entire banking system." Less than 3 days later, it has done just that. China Post reports that: "South Korea suspended operations at four more savings banks on Saturday after runs developed as customers rushed to get at their money despite official assurances the financial sector was secure." Gee whiz, looks like last week's promises that everything was contained were, gasp, lies? " The Financial Services Commission (FSC) said Saturday it was suspending three affiliates of Busan Savings Bank — Jungang Busan Savings Bank, Busan II Savings Bank and Jeonju Savings Bank — as well as Bohae Bank for six months each. “Considering recent waves of deposit withdrawals, available liquidity, remaining deposits and capacity to borrow, the FSC concluded that they might face a situation where they are unable to pay customers,” the FSC said." And in an almost verbatim transposition of our own Telepromptermarionette-in-Chief's admonition in March 2009 that "profit and earnings" ratios were now cheap or some other such garbage, the head of the Financial Services Commission Kim Seok-dong (not related to Bang Dae-Ho) "vowed to make a personal deposit of 20 million won ($17,864) in Woolee to convince depositors that the bank was financially sound." And if that doesn't work Korea can always rent Brian Sack out for a few days each week: truth be told, the US can easily cut down on the amount of weekly POMOs now that WTI is about to pass $100 (and Brent $110).

Zero Hedge

[eXpat]

Korean Officials Seek To Head Off Bank Run

As South Korea’s regulators try to head off a run on the nation’s savings banks, Financial Services Commission Chairman Kim Seok-dong has been taking the message to the people – and putting his own money into one of the banks.

The FSC said on Monday that Mr. Kim, who became chairman last month, will deposit 20 million won with Busan-based Woolee Savings Bank and was at one of the bank’s branches Monday asking customers to refrain from withdrawing their money.

http://blogs.wsj.com/exchange/2011/02/21/korean-officials-seek-to-head-off-bank-run/

[eXpat]

8 banks now
Korean Bank Run Spreading: Eighth Bank Closes Following "Massive Withdrawals"

The quietest bank run that has so far completely evaded mainstream attention, that of Korea, is spreading, and an eighth bank has now shuttered after "Domin Bank, a savings bank with a capital adequacy ratio below 5 percent, voluntarily decided yesterday to suspend its operations temporarily because of massive withdrawals." As JoongAng reports: "The decision took both depositors and financial regulators by surprise since it was the first time that a local bank shut its doors on its own." Apparently the courageous decision by the Financial Services Chairman Kim Seok-dong to deposit $17,864 in a troubled bank has not done much if anything to prevent the locals from realizing that their banking system is built on a house of cards.

From JoongAng Daily:

Domin Bank, which has six branches in Gangwon, was placed on a watch list last week by the Financial Services Commission. The move triggered a bank run on Domin Bank.

According to Domin Bank, deposits amounting 31.8 billion won ($28.2 million) were withdrawn since last Thursday, including 18.8 billion won on Monday.

The news of Domin Bank’s temporary closure came as FSC Chairman Kim Seok-dong was visiting Mokpo, South Jeolla, where recently suspended Bohae Savings Bank is located
Seok-dong unhappy:

“This savings bank was supposed to submit a management improvement plan to the FSC by Feb. 24,” said Kim. “We will now have to review whether [the closure] is even legally O.K.”

More classic quotes follow:

Bae Joon-soo, senior FSC deputy director, said, “I think it is legally and morally wrong for a financial firm to do such a thing.”

Now we get it: according to the banking cartel's ethical standard it is "legally and morally wrong" for a bank to admit it is insolvent. Perhaps if America had made this clear 2 years ago, we could have spared ourselves two years of fingerpointing and fictitious lawsuits. After all, say what you will about the tenets of banker national socialism, at least it's an ethos.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/korean-bank-run-spreading-eighth-bank-closes-following-massive-withdrawals

[jdmartin]

Ho, shit~! This story has been so far buried this is the first I've heard of it. Thanks for the heads-up