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Seneca Cliff

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 12 Nov 2016, 19:04:44

Adam, your appeal to Solar has been repeatedly critiqued here for its limitations both in terms of intermittent energy, ability to be scaled up sufficiently as it is not as concentrated energy as FF energy and its reliance on fossil fuels to build and maintain. This endless energy is a red herring. Solar energy arrives on Earth as diffused energy both in time and space, so please do not insult our intelligence
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 00:04:56

onlooker wrote:Adam, your appeal to Solar has been repeatedly critiqued here for its limitations both in terms of intermittent energy, ability to be scaled up sufficiently as it is not as concentrated energy as FF energy and its reliance on fossil fuels to build and maintain. This endless energy is a red herring. Solar energy arrives on Earth as diffused energy both in time and space, so please do not insult our intelligence


I have never used the word "endless energy", because I know better, and do try and say what I mean. And it was SumYunGai who demonstrated, yet again, that he doesn't know much of anything about multiple industries and fields of science at this point, not me. Feel free to educate him as much as you'd like, I am quite well aware of the limitations of solar.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 12:05:04

Looker/Adam + Folks always ask why Texas went so big with wind and ignored solar. Especially with all out S Texas sun. The simple answer was economics. But now that seems to be changing. In addition to cheaper panels don't forget the $7 BILLION the state spent to improve the grid.

"For years, Texas consumers have been buying electricity through renewable energy plans. Now TXU Energy, the state’s largest electricity retailer, has added a twist: 100 percent solar power. For those who want to support solar, it’s an alternative to investing in a rooftop system, the company said in a recent release. But if you want solar panels, TXU has a program for that, too, which it launched in November with partner SunPower. As a marketing campaign, this isn’t groundbreaking, given that consumers have so many choices already. But the push says much about the coming boom in Texas energy.

“Solar is poised to take off in Texas,” said Peter Sopher, a policy analyst for the Environmental Defense Fund in Austin. He compared it to wind power a decade ago, when turbines were popping up in West Texas. In 2005, wind generated 1.4 percent of electricity on ERCOT, the grid that handles most of the state’s electric load. For the first 11 months of 2015, wind’s share was over 11 percent. And in November, it was over 18 percent. Texas is easily the No. 1 state in wind, with more than twice the capacity of California.

On solar, however, Texas has been lagging. It ranked No. 10 among the states in solar power as of September. Texas doesn’t match the incentives of some states and has an abundant supply of other cheap energy, including natural gas. But prices for solar panels have fallen over 80 percent since 2009, making it competitive with fossil fuels. That’s ramped up the outlook in Texas, because there’s plenty of sun, a growing population, a huge electric load and a hyper-competitive electricity market.

Last year, solar installations on ERCOT grew almost 50 percent. This year, solar generation could jump sixfold, according to ERCOT projections, which are based on developer agreements to connect with the grid. By 2030, solar will add 14,100 megawatts of power if proposed rules to cut emissions and haze remain in place, ERCOT estimates. That could power over 2 million homes in the summer. And if solar builds out as projected, it would account for more new capacity than wind and natural gas plants combined, ERCOT said. These projections came before last month’s federal budget deal, which extended the tax credits for renewable energy — and will help keep the momentum going."
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby careinke » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 13:22:57

pstarr wrote:I don't get this attraction with solar or wind? What do you do on a rainy cold day in December? Turn the coal back on is what you do.


I light a fire.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 14:00:46

"I don't get this attraction with solar or wind? What do you do on a rainy cold day in December?" Wind power problems in Texas during December? Obviously you've never had the wind chill factor freeze your ass off in west Texas in December. LOL. Forget turning on more coal or even NG: one recent winter a polar vortex shut down two NG fueled plants by the low temps. But the associated high winds allowed our turbines to supply almost 40% of the TOTAL STATE DEMAND. Pretty good for the LARGEST ELECTRICITY CONSUMER in the country.

But yes: if our wind, solar, nuclear and NG can't do the job we still have our huge lignite reserves. Which is why despite the growth in all energy sources our power generation capacity from burning lignite HAS NOT decreased 1 Btu. And won't. In fact as NG supplies eventually decline decades down the road it won't be a surprise to see lignite grab a higher % of electricity generation. Which is one reason Texas has built the world's largest CCS project. A project that will dispose of the GHG from the second largest producer in the country: a plant where half the burners run on lignite.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 14:58:04

ROCKMAN wrote:Which is one reason Texas has built the world's largest CCS project.


Sleipner has been in action for nearly 20 years now, has put 16 million tons of CO2 into the ground. What Texas project has sequestered more than that?
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 15:40:39

pstarr - Great pics...mucho thanks. BTW the movie Giant was filmed outside the S Texas town of Marfa. Which is the same area where a Giant commercial solar project was proposed. And now solar is projected to grow at rate faster the either wind or NG sources grew? BTW Marta is just down the road from one of our largest wind farms.

Also take a closer look at your pics: notice there ain't sh*t there except for what Hollywood built. And guess what...there still ain't sh*t there. LOL. Which is actually why Texas has a great advantage over most other states when it comes to alt energy: we have millions of acres where there ain't nothing but relentless wind blowing and sun scalding the land. IOW much of the land in Texas has little value except for wind and solar development.

Build a giant wind farm along the shoreline of Martha's Vineyard...or anywhere along the coast? Hell, look at the fight they've had just trying to get offshore turbines installed. Yet along the Texas coast just down the road from the large city of Corpus Christi:

"On the 400,000-acre Kenedy Ranch along the southern Gulf Coast, the wind coming off the water nearly flattops the clusters of oak trees. Towering above the trees are scores of wind turbine. The wind farm, which began operating in 2009 and doubled in size last year, reflects the new geography of wind power in Texas, the country’s leading wind state. The majority of Texas turbines have gone up in the west, harnessing fierce winds that sweep southward from the plains. Meanwhile, several big wind farms have begun operating in the general vicinity of Corpus Christi in the past few years, and it is likely that more coastal projects are on the way."

And the only significant objections to our coastal wind farms came from bird watchers concerned with turbines taking out their feathered friends. But in a state where we shoot millions of those birds during hunting season those protests were ignored.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 15:42:15

pstarr wrote:I hadn't realized that Texans burned CO2 to capture CO2. Like feeding chickens to chickens. I thought that kind of stupidity was banned.


It was. They were all given one way tickets to California. Carbon sequestration has been quite the research topic at several government agencies in the US, and the IEA relies on it extensively to make sure that their models can continue to allow CO2 emissions with increasing demand.

Obviously, energy economists seeing peak demand (no thanks to those who drive ICE powered cars) have a better idea of what peak oil has wrought in terms of personal transport, and how to fuel them.

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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 15:59:30

Adam - "Sleipner has been in action for nearly 20 years now, has put 16 million tons of CO2 into the ground. What Texas project has sequestered more than that?" Have another cup of coffee and wipe the shit out of your eyes. LOL. And the read my post again and this time pay attention to is building

I understand how difficult it is for Texas haters to hear such FACTS. But when you fail trying to hide from them it only makes your jealousy worst. LOL
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 07:17:03

ROCKMAN wrote:Adam - "Sleipner has been in action for nearly 20 years now, has put 16 million tons of CO2 into the ground. What Texas project has sequestered more than that?" Have another cup of coffee and wipe the shit out of your eyes. LOL. And the read my post again and this time pay attention to is building


Oh, I see. Texas has some hopes and dreams going on, and isn't there yet, but you want to get the credit early. Got it!

Rockman wrote:I understand how difficult it is for Texas haters to hear such FACTS. But when you fail trying to hide from them it only makes your jealousy worst. LOL


I was born in Texas Rockman. Daughter is at Texas Tech. And the FACT is that Texas hopes and dreams are the same as those resource estimates you claim can't be counted until they are turned into producing oil and gas....so we'll just wait and see how well this Texas project stacks up against REAL carbon sequestration projects with multi-decade track records when, and if, it begins disposing of REAL CO2, as opposed to the ZERO it apparently is disposing of now.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 10:22:07

Adam - Please stop embarrassing yourself. After all you were at least born in Texas and it hurts our image. LOL. What f*cking "hope"? Do yourself a favor and go to the web and see. The project is in track to start up in the next few months and is on budget. The "hope" began over 6 years ago when the effort was put on the drawing board. Today all the infrastructure is in place and start up operations are beginning.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby Revi » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:04:04

Interesting that Texas is leading in renewable energy generation. Here in Maine there are a lot of wind farms and solar installations happening and the surprising thing is that the people who are wailing about it call themselves "environmentalists". I really don't see how they can complain about an energy source that is not creating more carbon, but maybe in their minds the view trumps dealing with the problem of climate change.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 16:27:09

Revi - I can see how some of your folks might feel that way emotionally on the basis of aesthetics. The lands where the Texas alts are being built will never adorn a post card. In most cases wind turbines improve the flat, scrubby boring view of west Texas. We have huge counties out there with populations under 15,000: the vast majority of the turbine viewers are cattle and jack rabbits. And so far none have complained. LOL. Seriously it's some of the most unattractive land in the country. And we don't have billionaires living along the south Texas coast where we have the second largest concentration of wind farms. Again while pleasant looking out into the Gulf if you look over your shoulder: endless flat land covered in scrub or cotton fields. And an occasional cluster of pump jacks and oil tanks. LOL.

Look at those pictures pstarr posted. That's exactly what millions of acres look like out there today.
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby Pops » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 17:08:46

ROCKMAN wrote:pleasant looking out into the Gulf if you look over your shoulder

lol,
didn't Mac Davis have something... Texas in the rearview mirror...
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 01:05:31

ROCKMAN wrote:LOL. What f*cking "hope"? Do yourself a favor and go to the web and see.


Excellent. When it puts the first 16 million tons in the ground, it will have become the largest in the world. Until it does...it isn't. 0 being a number less than 16 million tons.

But sure, we can all wait and see what its sequestration totals are after awhile, and when it DOES something, we can then compare that little number, to Sleipner's big number, and we'll know it isn't the biggest. But we can then project its injection volumes forward, as we can Sleipners, and we can calculate how many years or decades in the future it might become the largest.

I can wait.

Rockman wrote: The project is in track to start up in the next few months and is on budget. The "hope" began over 6 years ago when the effort was put on the drawing board. Today all the infrastructure is in place and start up operations are beginning.


Well, put me down for an update when it gets 16 million tons in, and then we can be proud of Texas know how...after the Norwegians did it first and taught them pesky Texans a thing or two!
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Re: Seneca Cliff

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 01:07:43

Pops wrote:
ROCKMAN wrote:pleasant looking out into the Gulf if you look over your shoulder

lol,
didn't Mac Davis have something... Texas in the rearview mirror...
Lubbock!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv0LOTnH_Cw


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