Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 18 Nov 2018, 08:50:10

Cog wrote:I like guns Ibon. I'm armed so I won't be frightened. There are real politicians with real legislation to ban guns and confiscate them. Washinton state just turned .22 caliber semiautomatic rifles into assualt rifles. Don't piss down my back and call it rain. I do know the difference. The left intends to disarm Americans. For what purpose, I'll leave to your imagination. I do know the purpose in communist and fascist regimes who have done it in the past.

I'll end this hijack of a thread here Ibon, but you did start it.


I did not intend to single you out. You have a lot of company out there. There are times when you get confronted with something that stings a little to hear. It has happened with me on this site when criticism has been thrown my way. As much as I didn't like reading it at the moment after a few days reflection I could acknowledge what was said and actually be grateful for the criticism.

That's how you grow.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7583
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 18 Nov 2018, 09:02:55

Newfie wrote:Some years ago my parents passed. They left me a small inheritance. With this I bought 168 acres of Canadian forest, $58,000 USD. It costs me about $1,500 USD in taxes per year. My immediate neighbor, from the USA, clear cut his parcel.

I initially bought the land for selfish reasons but now realize that by siting on it, protecting it from being “developed” I’m making a small but positive change to fight “development and consumption.”

It’s one small thing that many of us here could actually do that would be beneficial in a tangible manner. If everyone who blathered about climate change actually did this, sequester land, it might start to make a difference.

Just an idea to move from complaining to action.
————————-
And I don’t think not having a good bit of money is an excuse. Someone could start a “Go Fund Me” account to buy and sequester land. Then everyone with $5 for a Starbucks treat could have a “Ethical Thursday” when they donate that $5 to the “Save the planet” account.

I have just over an acre that I use for coppicing willow and I have PV and thermal solar panels, So I can say I am doing my small bit to reducing waste.

But anyway, back to the sunspots. just one tiny (about Earth sized) visible sunspot at the moment, but the trend is still downwards.

http://spaceweather.com/

Sunspot number: 13

Updated 18 Nov 2018

Spotless Days
Current Stretch: 0 days
2018 total: 190 days (59%)
2017 total: 104 days (28%)
2016 total: 32 days (9%)
2015 total: 0 days (0%)
2014 total: 1 day (<1%)
2013 total: 0 days (0%)
2012 total: 0 days (0%)
2011 total: 2 days (<1%)
2010 total: 51 days (14%)
2009 total: 260 days (71%)
2008 total: 268 days (73%)
2007 total: 152 days (42%)
2006 total: 70 days (19%)
Updated 18 Nov 2018
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.:Anonymous
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
User avatar
dolanbaker
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3660
Joined: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:38:47
Location: Éire

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby aldente » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 02:42:29

Image
User avatar
aldente
permanently banned
 
Posts: 1559
Joined: Fri 20 Aug 2004, 02:00:00

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby dolanbaker » Wed 30 Oct 2019, 15:59:34

is this theory getting any recognition?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45584-3


From that article
The resulting summary curve reveals a remarkable resemblance to the sunspot and terrestrial activity reported in the past millennia including the significant grand solar minima: Maunder Minimum (1645–1715), Wolf minimum (1200), Oort minimum (1010–1050), Homer minimum (800–900 BC) combined with the grand solar maxima: the medieval warm period (900–1200), the Roman warm period (400–10BC) etc. It also predicts the upcoming grand solar minimum, similar to Maunder Minimum, which starts in 2020 and will last until 2055.


....


The terrestrial temperature is expected to grow during maxima of 11 year solar cycles and to decrease during their minima. Furthermore, the substantial temperature decreases are expected during the two grand minima[url="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45584-3#ref-CR47"]47[/url] to occur in 2020–2055 and 2370–2415[url="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45584-3#ref-CR6"]6[/url], whose magnitudes cannot be yet predicted and need further investigation. These oscillations of the estimated terrestrial temperature do not include any human-induced factors, which were outside the scope of the current paper.



It looks like we could be entering a period of stagnating temperature rise or even a small drop in (average) global temperatures over the next couple of decades. The scary thing is that the cooling will probably cause significantly cooler temperatures in this part of the world (north-west Europe) along with the reduced crop production etc.

It will also destroy the credibility of climate change advocates whose claims of "man-made global warming" will become completely discredited, however when the sun moves out of the quiet phase, there could be a rapid and relentless rise in global temperatures as CO2 levels could (probably) be 500+ by then.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.:Anonymous
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
User avatar
dolanbaker
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3660
Joined: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:38:47
Location: Éire

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby dissident » Wed 30 Oct 2019, 20:58:52

More selective BS. Comparing solar variability impacts during the pre-industrial era to today is grossly misleading. There will have been solar driven climate variations since the other parameters (e.g. CO2) were not changing much. But so what? That does not make CO2 an irrelevant factor and the problem today is that the CO2 loading (now over 405 ppmv, up from under 285 ppmv in 1850; actually more like 490 equivalent since other greenhouse gases like N2O, PCFCs and surface O3 have increased as well) is driving secular global warming. Anyone trying to argue that solar variability is more important is an idiot since the measured temperature record is not following any solar variance, it is following the quasi-exponential CO2 increase. The science is clear on the role of CO2.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5612
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 31 Oct 2019, 01:58:48

dissident wrote:More selective BS. Comparing solar variability impacts during the pre-industrial era to today is grossly misleading. There will have been solar driven climate variations since the other parameters (e.g. CO2) were not changing much. But so what? That does not make CO2 an irrelevant factor and the problem today is that the CO2 loading (now over 405 ppmv, up from under 285 ppmv in 1850; actually more like 490 equivalent since other greenhouse gases like N2O, PCFCs and surface O3 have increased as well) is driving secular global warming. Anyone trying to argue that solar variability is more important is an idiot since the measured temperature record is not following any solar variance, it is following the quasi-exponential CO2 increase. The science is clear on the role of CO2.

That is all fine, but in your opinion is there any chance that within next 30 years we may not see any further warming (increase of GHG gets compensated by decrese of solar energy flux) or only marginal warming?
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5581
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby dolanbaker » Thu 31 Oct 2019, 02:56:44

dissident wrote:More selective BS. Comparing solar variability impacts during the pre-industrial era to today is grossly misleading. There will have been solar driven climate variations since the other parameters (e.g. CO2) were not changing much. But so what? That does not make CO2 an irrelevant factor and the problem today is that the CO2 loading (now over 405 ppmv, up from under 285 ppmv in 1850; actually more like 490 equivalent since other greenhouse gases like N2O, PCFCs and surface O3 have increased as well) is driving secular global warming. Anyone trying to argue that solar variability is more important is an idiot since the measured temperature record is not following any solar variance, it is following the quasi-exponential CO2 increase. The science is clear on the role of CO2.

You obviously didn't read the whole post.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.:Anonymous
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
User avatar
dolanbaker
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3660
Joined: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:38:47
Location: Éire

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby GHung » Thu 31 Oct 2019, 07:57:52

Solar experts predict the Sun’s activity in Solar Cycle 25 to be below average, similar to Solar Cycle 24

April 5, 2019 - Scientists charged with predicting the Sun’s activity for the next 11-year solar cycle say that it’s likely to be weak, much like the current one. The current solar cycle, Cycle 24, is declining and predicted to reach solar minimum - the period when the Sun is least active - late in 2019 or 2020.

Solar Cycle 25 Prediction Panel experts said Solar Cycle 25 may have a slow start, but is anticipated to peak with solar maximum occurring between 2023 and 2026, and a sunspot range of 95 to 130. This is well below the average number of sunspots, which typically ranges from 140 to 220 sunspots per solar cycle. The panel has high confidence that the coming cycle should break the trend of weakening solar activity seen over the past four cycles.

“We expect Solar Cycle 25 will be very similar to Cycle 24: another fairly weak cycle, preceded by a long, deep minimum,” said panel co-chair Lisa Upton, Ph.D., solar physicist with Space Systems Research Corp. “The expectation that Cycle 25 will be comparable in size to Cycle 24 means that the steady decline in solar cycle amplitude, seen from cycles 21-24, has come to an end and that there is no indication that we are currently approaching a Maunder-type minimum in solar activity.” ........
https://www.weather.gov/news/190504-sun ... olar-cycle


So, if I read this right, the recent solar maximums have been relatively weak; all-the-while we've seen repeated and frequent periods of record highs in many parts of the world. Had the past few cycles seen strong solar maximums, how much higher would those record highs have been, and at what frequency?
Just askin'.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby dolanbaker » Thu 31 Oct 2019, 14:28:12

0.5 C higher perhaps, but my concern would be how quickly they could rise after 2050 if no one tackles the emissions in the "pause" that we could have.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.:Anonymous
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
User avatar
dolanbaker
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3660
Joined: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:38:47
Location: Éire

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 31 Oct 2019, 16:26:45

GHung wrote:
Solar experts predict the Sun’s activity in Solar Cycle 25 to be below average, similar to Solar Cycle 24

April 5, 2019 - Scientists charged with predicting the Sun’s activity for the next 11-year solar cycle say that it’s likely to be weak, much like the current one. The current solar cycle, Cycle 24, is declining and predicted to reach solar minimum - the period when the Sun is least active - late in 2019 or 2020.

Solar Cycle 25 Prediction Panel experts said Solar Cycle 25 may have a slow start, but is anticipated to peak with solar maximum occurring between 2023 and 2026, and a sunspot range of 95 to 130. This is well below the average number of sunspots, which typically ranges from 140 to 220 sunspots per solar cycle. The panel has high confidence that the coming cycle should break the trend of weakening solar activity seen over the past four cycles.

“We expect Solar Cycle 25 will be very similar to Cycle 24: another fairly weak cycle, preceded by a long, deep minimum,” said panel co-chair Lisa Upton, Ph.D., solar physicist with Space Systems Research Corp. “The expectation that Cycle 25 will be comparable in size to Cycle 24 means that the steady decline in solar cycle amplitude, seen from cycles 21-24, has come to an end and that there is no indication that we are currently approaching a Maunder-type minimum in solar activity.” ........
https://www.weather.gov/news/190504-sun ... olar-cycle


So, if I read this right, the recent solar maximums have been relatively weak; all-the-while we've seen repeated and frequent periods of record highs in many parts of the world. Had the past few cycles seen strong solar maximums, how much higher would those record highs have been, and at what frequency?
Just askin'.


If we look back at the 400 years of sunspot records there is a clear century scale cycle that hit in the first decade of the 18th, 19th, and 20th century. Why people were surprised when it repeated in the first cycle of the 21st century is something I find puzzling. The fact that temperatures did not substantially drop during this once a century minimum is indeed a very troubling aspect.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15532
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 01 Nov 2019, 03:05:09

Tanada wrote:If we look back at the 400 years of sunspot records there is a clear century scale cycle that hit in the first decade of the 18th, 19th, and 20th century. Why people were surprised when it repeated in the first cycle of the 21st century is something I find puzzling. The fact that temperatures did not substantially drop during this once a century minimum is indeed a very troubling aspect.

Solar cycles are complicated.
With the exception of a well known 11 years cycles our knowledge about longer term cycles is limited and uncertain.
We pretend to know something more than we do.
After 30 000 years of dilligent observations with state of the art tech we will be wiser.
There is a chance that an obscure long term solar cycle will save us for few decades from fast GW but I would not bet my money on it.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5581
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby sparky » Fri 01 Nov 2019, 21:28:33

.
It's possible to estimate past solar cycles using proxies such as Carbon 14 ,pollen deposit , tree rings ,carbonate in corals , stalagmites formation in caves , Oxygen 18 ...etc

those records match very well with each others , the variety give very nice overlap and give a solid picture of Earth temperature for a bit less than 1 million years

some extend to the Cambrian explosion of life on Earth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleother ... otemps.svg
it seems that the planet has been steadily cooling during the Eocene with the appearance of ice at the poles
User avatar
sparky
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3313
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Sydney , OZ

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 02 Nov 2019, 02:37:45

So if everything wil go as planned 80 years from now on we will have temperatures last seen 15 millions of years ago, though it will be still far away from unchartered territories.
These results are partially due to solar cycles and partially due to GHG cycles between many other factors. Even galactic year will play a part in so long term observations due to different intensities of cosmic radiatition.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5581
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Nefarious » Sat 02 Nov 2019, 09:37:43

dolanbaker wrote:0.5 C higher perhaps, but my concern would be how quickly they could rise after 2050 if no one tackles the emissions in the "pause" that we could have.


I wouldn't worry about that to much. During the last minimums millions died from famine from global crop failures,due to floods,hail,and early frosts and drought (sounds a lot like the weather of 2019). With over 7 billion mouths to feed on the planet it doesn't matter how much fossil fuels you have, you won't grow much if the weather doesn't cooperate.
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
User avatar
Nefarious
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri 31 Oct 2008, 02:00:00
Location: The Deep South

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Nefarious » Sat 02 Nov 2019, 11:15:33

Updated 02 Nov 2019

Spotless Days
Current Stretch: 0 days
2019 total: 228 days (75%)
2018 total: 221 days (61%)
2017 total: 104 days (28%)
2016 total: 32 days (9%)
2015 total: 0 days (0%)
2014 total: 1 day (<1%)
2013 total: 0 days (0%)
2012 total: 0 days (0%)
2011 total: 2 days (<1%)
2010 total: 51 days (14%)
2009 total: 260 days (71%)
2008 total: 268 days (73%)
2007 total: 152 days (42%)
2006 total: 70 days (19%)
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
User avatar
Nefarious
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri 31 Oct 2008, 02:00:00
Location: The Deep South

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Nefarious » Mon 04 Nov 2019, 17:42:26

GHung wrote:
Solar experts predict the Sun’s activity in Solar Cycle 25 to be below average, similar to Solar Cycle 24

April 5, 2019 - Scientists charged with predicting the Sun’s activity for the next 11-year solar cycle say that it’s likely to be weak, much like the current one. The current solar cycle, Cycle 24, is declining and predicted to reach solar minimum - the period when the Sun is least active - late in 2019 or 2020.

Solar Cycle 25 Prediction Panel experts said Solar Cycle 25 may have a slow start, but is anticipated to peak with solar maximum occurring between 2023 and 2026, and a sunspot range of 95 to 130. This is well below the average number of sunspots, which typically ranges from 140 to 220 sunspots per solar cycle. The panel has high confidence that the coming cycle should break the trend of weakening solar activity seen over the past four cycles.

“We expect Solar Cycle 25 will be very similar to Cycle 24: another fairly weak cycle, preceded by a long, deep minimum,” said panel co-chair Lisa Upton, Ph.D., solar physicist with Space Systems Research Corp. “The expectation that Cycle 25 will be comparable in size to Cycle 24 means that the steady decline in solar cycle amplitude, seen from cycles 21-24, has come to an end and that there is no indication that we are currently approaching a Maunder-type minimum in solar activity.” ........
https://www.weather.gov/news/190504-sun ... olar-cycle


So, if I read this right, the recent solar maximums have been relatively weak; all-the-while we've seen repeated and frequent periods of record highs in many parts of the world. Had the past few cycles seen strong solar maximums, how much higher would those record highs have been, and at what frequency?
Just askin'.


That's not an accurate assumption. While the trend is downward solar cycles 21.22.23 were still quite robust and are not considered weak cycles. Cycle 24 was a much weaker cycle than the others.
Just like grand solar minimums there are grand maximums, long periods of enhanced solar activity and we are just now coming out of the modern grand maximum that started around 1940 and it was a mother of a grand maximum.


1940-2015 Grand Maximum Of Solar Activity, Highest In 4,000 Years, Just Ended

“Studies that employ cosmogenic isotope data and sunspot data indicate that we are currently leaving a grand activity maximum, which began in approximately 1940 and is now declining (Usoskin et al., 2003; Solanki et al., 2004; Abreu et al., 2008). Because grand maxima and minima occur on centennial or millennial timescales, they can only be investigated using proxy data, i.e., solar activity reconstructed from 10Be and 14C time-calibrated data. The conclusion is that the activity level of the Modern Maximum (1940–2000) is a relatively rare event, with the previous similarly high levels of solar activity observed 4 and 8 millennia ago (Usoskin et al., 2003). Nineteen grand maxima have been identified by Usoskin et al. (2007) in an 11,000-yr series.”
Article
Research Paper PDF
Graph of Solar Cycles
As for them saying that cycle 25 will put an end to the decline I doubt it, most in the field say it's going lower but then again it is dot gov so It doesn't carry much weight with me. (the government would never lie)
Last edited by Nefarious on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 17:53:40, edited 1 time in total.
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
User avatar
Nefarious
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri 31 Oct 2008, 02:00:00
Location: The Deep South

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Nefarious » Mon 04 Nov 2019, 17:51:51

dolanbaker wrote:It looks like we could be entering a period of stagnating temperature rise or even a small drop in (average) global temperatures over the next couple of decades. The scary thing is that the cooling will probably cause significantly cooler temperatures in this part of the world (north-west Europe) along with the reduced crop production etc.

It will also destroy the credibility of climate change advocates whose claims of "man-made global warming" will become completely discredited, however when the sun moves out of the quiet phase, there could be a rapid and relentless rise in global temperatures as CO2 levels could (probably) be 500+ by then.


How is it even possible to have cooling with rising CO2? AGW says CO2 drives the climate not the sun. If the sun goes quite and the global temp does drop with rising CO2 levels it totally blows AGW theory out of the water. When the sun starts back up again and it starts getting warmer are yall still going to say CO2 is causing the warming? Kind of hard to do so.
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
User avatar
Nefarious
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri 31 Oct 2008, 02:00:00
Location: The Deep South

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 04 Nov 2019, 18:09:38

How is it even possible to have cooling with rising CO2?


In the Ordovician, there was an uptick in CO2 during the period that global glaciation was occurring. During the U Jr/L Cretaceous little ice age temperatures fell by about 2C while Cow rose by about 500 ppm. There are other factors at work in the climate system beyond greenhouse gases.
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7221
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 02:00:00

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby Nefarious » Mon 04 Nov 2019, 18:24:42

rockdoc123 wrote:
How is it even possible to have cooling with rising CO2?


In the Ordovician, there was an uptick in CO2 during the period that global glaciation was occurring. During the U Jr/L Cretaceous little ice age temperatures fell by about 2C while Cow rose by about 500 ppm. There are other factors at work in the climate system beyond greenhouse gases.


I was being sarcastic with that comment :-D I 'm familiar with geologic history which is why I never bought into the AGW theory.
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
User avatar
Nefarious
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri 31 Oct 2008, 02:00:00
Location: The Deep South

Re: Say Goodbye to Sunspots Pt. 2?

Unread postby ralfy » Mon 04 Nov 2019, 22:13:43

Nefarious wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:It looks like we could be entering a period of stagnating temperature rise or even a small drop in (average) global temperatures over the next couple of decades. The scary thing is that the cooling will probably cause significantly cooler temperatures in this part of the world (north-west Europe) along with the reduced crop production etc.

It will also destroy the credibility of climate change advocates whose claims of "man-made global warming" will become completely discredited, however when the sun moves out of the quiet phase, there could be a rapid and relentless rise in global temperatures as CO2 levels could (probably) be 500+ by then.


How is it even possible to have cooling with rising CO2? AGW says CO2 drives the climate not the sun. If the sun goes quite and the global temp does drop with rising CO2 levels it totally blows AGW theory out of the water. When the sun starts back up again and it starts getting warmer are yall still going to say CO2 is causing the warming? Kind of hard to do so.


Probably ocean heat content.

Also, AGW doesn't say that CO2 drives the climate.
http://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4978
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 10:36:38
Location: The Wasteland

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests