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Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 31 Oct 2016, 17:25:15

That's a real problem. I have kids and they are wage slaves. As was I. I pity them.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 31 Oct 2016, 22:48:46

Newfie - But what's better: being a wage slave or a free man with no income? Of course having a rich grandpa wage slave leaving you a big inheritance would be preferable. LOL
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 01 Nov 2016, 05:41:24

Rocman,

That's a good point. Our culture goons folks to become wage slaves. And perhaps rightfully slow. Re People Are Sheep thread.

Some do not fit that mold, and to some extent we idolize them.

So what's better depends upon the person. What we have is a mix of ideas that put people under stress, slave wage is almost inevitable, but we long to be the Marlboro Man.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 01 Nov 2016, 09:40:24

Newfie wrote:Rocman,

That's a good point. Our culture goons folks to become wage slaves. And perhaps rightfully slow. Re People Are Sheep thread.

Some do not fit that mold, and to some extent we idolize them.

So what's better depends upon the person. What we have is a mix of ideas that put people under stress, slave wage is almost inevitable, but we long to be the Marlboro Man.


Most folks in any culture have to carry on the basic tasks that keep civilization functioning. Plumbers and carpenters and farmers are ultimately more crucial than minor bureacratic functionaries.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 01 Nov 2016, 09:54:00

Sub - "Plumbers and carpenters and farmers are ultimately more crucial than minor bureacratic functionaries." As been said before: "First, kill all the lawyers". LOL.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby careinke » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 01:11:45

ROCKMAN wrote:Sub - "Plumbers and carpenters and farmers are ultimately more crucial than minor bureacratic functionaries." As been said before: "First, kill all the lawyers". LOL.

Don't forget the bankers!
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 20:06:41

There is an active prepper thread on Cruisers Forum. I thought you guys might find this exchange interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
I see your points. after all, things are going so well in the EU, and south and central America. Anybody counting on any govt, to feed you or protect you, is insane.

Prepping is nothing more then following our forefathers way of life. We like it. Here, we don't have to go to a store for likely a minimum of 24 months. We do go cuz we like fresh veggies.

We also jabe Heirloom. Seed vaults like 20 of them, for crops seasonally. And herb vaults for indoor growing. We purchase gold and silver.often, buy low, sell high. And we believe that if you physically don't have your money in your possession, you don't own it. Keep a lot of booze and trading stuff.

My tribe would be very comfortable for many years, God forbid an unfortunate event should happen. I pray not.

Just a little different life philosophy. Seems very much like all you independent self reliant long distance sailors.

Reply by yyy
Actually, things are going quite well in parts of Central and South America, Panama is booming for example, but I still would not assume any govt would cover my butt.

Our place in Guatemala is in a small (about 200 people) rural village, accessible by water only, which receives no govt services of any kind (no police, no fire, no nada). The Guatemalan and USA Govts could collapse and it would make no difference at all.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Revi » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 12:45:41

I lived in Guatemala, and I think these people are in the Golfete region, near Livingston. It's become very popular with cruisers in recent years. I lived in Guatemala in the 80's and the violence was everywhere. It may have been a little better in that region, but there was no safe place. If things go badly again they will be able to weigh anchor and head for another region. Belize is not far away, and the Yucatan is just up the coast.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Cog » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 12:48:05

What is unsafe about Maine?
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Revi » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 12:56:42

Maine is not the haven people think it is. Are you following me around Cog?
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 13:03:33

Revi - But bottom line: when TSHTF locally do you know anyplace on the planet where the strong/armed won't take advantage of the weak/unarmed? Even being armed isn't enough if you don't have adequate numbers.

I know it's just silly scfi story but the "Walking Dead" TV series has just entered that phase. Initially the big problem was the zombies. Now it's the living: well armed and numerous bad guys (hundreds of them) that are the biggest threat. Their rule is very simple: grow your crops and live stock. And give us half or we kill you. But just some of you because we need the rest to keep us supplied.

And its not like we haven't seen real examples. For instance the oiooiol fields that ISIS took control over: did they have their own production hands take over? Or did they make an offer to the local workers that couldn't be turned down?
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Revi » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 13:07:27

I really don't know what will happen. I gave up being tough enough to hold off the zombie hordes long ago.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 13:51:45

Cog wrote:What is unsafe about Maine?


Rogue lobsters! :-D

But......I grew up in a very small town, rural area. The crime was just as bad there as in the city, just not as visible. If you live in a suburb where you are shielded from the average human you are pretty good. But in real small towns all classes mix and go to school together. Different.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Pops » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 19:06:48

I always favored rural but the conditions there nowadays are deplorable...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 19:18:31

Pops wrote:I always favored rural but the conditions there nowadays are deplorable...


Rural USA maybe. There is very fine rural community around me at the moment who are fine folks that are not indoctrinated on a daily basis by media.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Pops » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 19:24:04

light hearted sarcasm my friend, lol
<<deplorables>>
too easy to give a straight faced delivery when no one can see your face...
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 19:29:51

Pops wrote:light hearted sarcasm my friend, lol
<<deplorables>>
too easy to give a straight faced delivery when no one can see your face...


I got the sarcasm...deplorables.

I was thinking about those deplorables today. Liberal progressives worried about micro aggressions and racism toward minorities and people of color have had zero problem denigrating and villifying and joking about rural white americans and christians in the hinterland. Rural Americans and small rust belt towns, big motivated supporters that helped get Donald elected, suffer such high rates of economic disenfranchisement, ghost towns, big box stores, factories closing, etc. Michael Moore has tuned into this quite brilliantly.

Should any of us be surprised that a goon like Donald Trump would come along and win their hearts.

All those red states. Pretty shocking really. Is it all about Donald awakening an inherent racism or is there something deeper here? Are democrats paying a price for ignoring the hinterland?
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 19:46:53

Jared Diaond makes the point that one symptom of a society approaching collapse is when the ruling elite become distant, disconnected, from the populace. Sound familiar?

In that light should we view Trump favorably in that he is reintroducing the elite to J6pack?

Too soon to tell how this will work out.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 20:22:11

The people you speak of are not progressive, although they like to believe they are. I think of them as neo-progressives.

I at least, was not surprised that Trump won, I always believed that against Clinton, he held an even chance. The race was always tighter than anybody believed, and Trump said so constantly. The problem is that the media was blinded to this argument by their very own prejudices. This happened because there is a massive lack of political diversity in our present media, and they rather ineptly missed the real story as it was played out in front of their eyes.

Understand that over the last year, the media coverage of Trump was massively unfavorable. The media coverage of Clinton, less so. This should not have happened, but in the end, Trump overcame the disadvantage. The story today is the disconnect between the media and the general populace, how badly they misread the election, and how they missed the real political narrative.

It was not after all, old angry white men that voted Trump into office. He got his share of females, minorities, and young people.
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Re: Rural vs Urban Costs & Benefits

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 22:35:06

Ibon wrote:
Pops wrote:light hearted sarcasm my friend, lol
<<deplorables>>
too easy to give a straight faced delivery when no one can see your face...


I got the sarcasm...deplorables.

I was thinking about those deplorables today. Liberal progressives worried about micro aggressions and racism toward minorities and people of color have had zero problem denigrating and villifying and joking about rural white americans and christians in the hinterland. Rural Americans and small rust belt towns, big motivated supporters that helped get Donald elected, suffer such high rates of economic disenfranchisement, ghost towns, big box stores, factories closing, etc. Michael Moore has tuned into this quite brilliantly.

Should any of us be surprised that a goon like Donald Trump would come along and win their hearts.

All those red states. Pretty shocking really. Is it all about Donald awakening an inherent racism or is there something deeper here? Are democrats paying a price for ignoring the hinterland?


From my POV it is not shocking at all. Then again I am one of those rural red state voters who are sneered at and frequently looked down on/dismissed by the coastal urban elites that inhabit both the Atlantic coast and Left coast of the USA.

Democrats used to be the standard bearers for the working class American Joe6P. What changed? Originally Joe6P Working class American was an urban center dweller working on manufacturing in some large town, or city. When the Suburban revolution took place Joe6P did his best to get a private house outside the city center. The densest population remained the urban center, but the class of people living there changed to the wealthy elites on top, and the urban slum dwellers on the bottom, with few Joe6P in the middle left.

Ronald Reagan appealed to those suburban Joe6P voters and peeled them away from the Democrat party. In response the D party pretty much wrote them off as unimportant compared to the Urban elite/poor high population centers. As a result once Reagan left office the elite Eastern USA Republicans lost interest in the Joe6P voters which left them as the people without a party. Bill Clinton appealed to these voters as a 'New Democrat' who claimed Joe6P values were his traditional values as well, and triangulated enough to be easily elected as a populist backlash against George H.W. Bush and Michael Dukakis, two Northeastern Liberal Elites. George W. Bush was just folksy enough to attract enough of the Joe6P working class to get elected, then reelected against John Kerry who is lets be honest, an east coast liberal elitist. President Obama got elected by exciting the urban core voters who frequently have low turnout numbers to turning out in record numbers. Democrats and Republicans in the East Coast Elite class convinced themselves that the urban cores would forever dominate American politics from November 2008 forever forward.

Then Donald Trump came along, appealed to Joe6P who is roundly ignored by the coastal elites and promptly won against 16 opponents in the Republican Primaries. At the same time the Democrat party chose as their standard bearer a person who has no charisma, little stamina and an extreme sense of self entitlement who is shadowed by the stench of corruption and poor life choices. That standard bearer then sneered and looked down upon the Joe6P voters who would have been her base voters 30 years ago and publicly dismissed them as 'deplorable' people because they did not automatically rush to her banner and carry her forward to instant coronation. She also tried to appeal to the Urban elites on one hand and the Urban poor on the other hand in the end satisfying nor exciting neither.

Despite what the Media may claim Obamacare is not a popular program. It was forced through with legislative rule changes in 2010 without a single Republican vote in either house of Congress, and the regular voters were so angry about it they threw the Democrats out of the Majority in the House of Representatives in 2010 and out of the majority in the Senate in 2014. By tying herself to Obamacare Hillary put herself at a distinct disadvantage while by promising to replace it The Donald made himself a standard bearer for the people who despise the program and all its faults.

The Media because they live in the urban bubbles on the coasts completely missed all these facts.
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