[onlooker]

Huh? The vast majority of climate scientists agree that GW is happening and we have been the primary cause.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/global ... ediate.htm
As for how severe it can be well the greatest mass extinction event on this planet was apparently primarily caused by climate change. And we are now at CO2 levels not seen since millions of years ago. So Jaw, you are either I'll informed or severe denial

[Newfie]

I’ve given up arguing with deniers. It’s like arguing religion when you are an atheist.

[onlooker]

I’ve given up arguing with deniers. It’s like arguing religion when you are an atheist.

+1

[mmasters]

More scientists believe 911 was a conspiracy.

[Ibon]

I’ve given up arguing with deniers. It’s like arguing religion when you are an atheist.

+1

Religious like zealotry in regards to our dilemma is well represented with both deniers and advocates of climate change and collapse scenarios.

[GHung]

I’ve given up arguing with deniers. It’s like arguing religion when you are an atheist.

+1

Religious like zealotry in regards to our dilemma is well represented with both deniers and advocates of climate change and collapse scenarios.

Then, again, those who have made careful, thoughtful assessments of our long list of predicaments and how they compound each other, and have come up with less-than-favorable likely outcomes, are frequently labeled as zealots. It's a lot easier (and infinitely more comfortable) to shoot the messengers than to listen to them. Dismiss them as "doomers" and go about your business.

I think a lot of scientists and engineers are going to be laughing their asses off when TSHTF and the masses run around saying; "Who knew?!"

[onlooker]

I do not agree that Doomers have a zealotry comparable to Deniers. First off, nobody in their right mind would really want all these bad things to happen. Second, the Realists ie doomers, are precisely in my estimation those people around the world who have weighed the cumulative evidence and facts that are accessible now to most anyone and have reached the corresponding conclusion of our severe overshoot of our carrying capacity and of the degraded and degrading state of the Biosphere.

Deniers on the other hand have a difficult time refuting the Body of Evidence and thus are resorting to on this site and others I have been on, to either putting into question the Messengers or simply denying the claims of the Realists without any solid basis to their denial. They also have good motivation to do so given the disturbing nature of what may happen going into the future. So, I do not think you can put both groups in the same category.

[jawagord]

I think a lot of scientists and engineers are going to be laughing their asses off when TSHTF and the masses run around saying; "Who knew?!"

I am an Engineer and I am LMAO at some of the posts put on here. From the ridiculous climate extrapolations presented as science to the recent "pot calling the kettle black" whinging about who calls who names, a person can't help but laugh at the pretentious serious of the posters.

[GHung]

Present company excepted.

[Newfie]

I’ve given up arguing with deniers. It’s like arguing religion when you are an atheist.

+1

Religious like zealotry in regards to our dilemma is well represented with both deniers and advocates of climate change and collapse scenarios.

This is all too true.

I think very few folks have any real understanding of the systemic problems that face us. Climate change is really only one of several.

On a personal level I don’t worry too much about climate change, there are other nastier issues that may bite us first. Some folks fixate on cc as the issue and loose sight of other matters.

[Newfie]

I’ve given up arguing with deniers. It’s like arguing religion when you are an atheist.

+1

Religious like zealotry in regards to our dilemma is well represented with both deniers and advocates of climate change and collapse scenarios.

Then, again, those who have made careful, thoughtful assessments of our long list of predicaments and how they compound each other, and have come up with less-than-favorable likely outcomes, are frequently labeled as zealots. It's a lot easier (and infinitely more comfortable) to shoot the messengers than to listen to them. Dismiss them as "doomers" and go about your business.

I think a lot of scientists and engineers are going to be laughing their asses off when TSHTF and the masses run around saying; "Who knew?!"

I’m giggling already.

[onlooker]

Kind of reminds me of Condoleezza Rice saying who could have known some bad guys could and would crash planes into high rise buildings duh?

[Newfie]

Onlooker,

My Wife would drag me to some Climate change organizational meetings. The found that the folks, by and large, didn’t really understand what they were talking about. They were just spewing some crap they heard. And they really were not terribly interested in CC. There were much more social meetings, they were really more about organizing for organizations sake. I tried to talk to folks about their personal plans, about how cc would effect them personally and what I found was they had not really considered it. When I brought up personal mitigation’s strategies it was clear they were not really convienced.

The real honest effects are bad enough, the don’t need to be exaggerated. But we should also be talking about other issues: water depletion, soil depletion, the silly concept of eternal growth, over population, etc. These topics need to be addressed and discussed openly with the public in simple clear terms.

In fact the open letter from 15,000 scientists is a pretty good start.

http://bigthink.com/stephen-johnson/150 ... o-humanity

[onlooker]

Yes Newf, from 55 years of living on this planet and among other people, I would have to conclude we have a serious bias against hearing and contemplating bad news and circumstances.

[onlooker]

Well let's consider the lag time in Temperature due to CO2 buildup, consider how now effects are occurring that models projected to happen much later and finally how ocean's acting as sinks will change to them acting sources for CO2. Okay, then the prudent action is to restrain emissions of CO2. Not continue to argue over how catastrophic it is shaping up to be over a given course of time.

[onlooker]

Thanks Dissident for lending your expertise to quell these bogus arguments

[KaiserJeep]

Time to remind everyone that the mindless AGW/CC fanboys are the only ones on the planet who have any degree of certainty about this open scientific inquiry.

Indeed, the vast majority of humans on this planet, and especially those with not enough food, not enough clean water, and without a warm and secure place to sleep, have no opinion on this matter, and if they have even heard of it, don't give it a moment's thought as they struggle to survive.

Then there are the real experts, those who study weather and climate as their life's work, and have the real academic credentials in the field, and a career of life experience studying CC. These folks have a majority opinion that says that humans are in some way causing CC and AGW to occur by burning FF's, but with very proper scientific reserve, they are careful to talk probabilities alone, and avoid conclusions. The vast majority of these are IPCC members and the IPCC member opinion poll does in fact show that a significant majority supports the AGW/CC theory. That same poll shows that as more is understood about climate - or more precisely, we understand more about what we don't know about climate - the majority opinion is shrinking.

Then there is that tiniest group of all, the AGW/CC fanboys of the Peak Oil Forums. They have certainty, they also have an attitude of intolerence that frequently rises to levels of very un-civil abuse towards those other PO members who share the minority scientific opinion about the unconfirmed AGW/CC theory.

You know what? Having been around this place for 5 years now, for all the words typed in the raging debate on the topic of AGW/CC, I have not seen anybody's opinion change on this matter.

But I am certain of one thing. Those who retain an open mind on this matter, and continue to read and think about the plentiful evidence on both sides of the theory, are far more correct than those who mistakenly believe that certainty exists. After all, the existence of such prejudices is the very antithesis of the way we practice science.

[dohboi]

"the vast majority of humans on this planet, and especially those with not enough food, not enough clean water, and without a warm and secure place to sleep, have no opinion on this matter"

More unfounded bs.

You can't get the science anywhere near right, but you think now you have great insights into the hearts and minds of "the vast majority of humans on the planet."

More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that instead of KJ, we should be calling you JK

Strong majorities not aware of GW seem to be restricted to the Indian subcontinent and much of Africa. Pretty much everywhere else, including places like the Philippines, about a half or more people are aware of GW, and in South America, awareness of and concern about GW is particularly high.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/global-surv ... ate-change

[onlooker]

JK?

[rockdoc123]

Of course those hurricanes that do form have a much higher chance of being more intense. And I think the pattern over the last 30 years is rather clear in this regard. But deniers always select the metrics that let them spew their BS, so they invoke the hurricane number as the main metric.

well maybe you should look at actual data.....frequency and energy (as I said above)
The pattern is rather clear....slightly decreasing frequency and energy since the nineties.