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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby frankthetank » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 10:47:21

The cybertruck to me is the ugliest vehicle ever. Love the Model S... Model 3 is nice. I honestly don't think this thing gets built looking this ugly. I think they'll have to redesign and push back production...which Tesla is great at. Ford or Chevy might beat them to a punch of a normal EV pickup.

I'll stick with gasoline for now... I don't drive enough to justify the cost of a Tesla...
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby frankthetank » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 12:39:56

Cog wrote:If you can't put a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood in it, it's not really a pickup truck. I suppose some yuppie who drives a Hummer might think it's cool. But for a working man, hell no.


This is where my minivan shines..if i take the seats out in the back (they all pop out easily) i can slid in 3/4 plywood, drywall etc and close the rear liftgate. Another option one has is a trailer. Get a model 3/..put a hitch on it... can get a 5x8 trailer for probably under a grand.. bam... haul about anything you ever need to...only crappy thing is storing a trailer.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby sparky » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 13:02:11

.
a very satisfying solution is plug in hybrid ,

it can charge by the engine or at a power point ,
there is no need to reconfigure the whole energy distribution for vehicle
they have excellent range , good performance and are suitable for long distance to remote location
for commuters they can be used as purely electric but will never get stuck if the charge is low
this type of vehicle is in sale since 2015 for mass retail
as of the first quarter of 2019 over 900.000 have been sold
the manufacturers make money , the consumers are very satisfied , there is very little noise
it cut the fuel consumption by two third and provide a solid economic base for the further development of batteries manufacturing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09JV70BWT0
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 13:29:14

No Comment

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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 13:38:10

With regards to plug-in hybrids an interesting approach to all the current problems seems to have been taken by Land Rover (no longer English owned but instead owned by the Indian company Tata).
The new Range Rover hybrid is cheaper than the high-end Tesla and basically looks exactly like a normal ICE Range Rover. It has a plug-in hybrid engine but what differs here is the range on electric alone is only about 50 km before it reverts to the combustion engine. I think what Land Rover had in mind here was that for folks who use their vehicle for daily commutes the hybrid can handle that task. When they head out on the weekends further afield the ICE part of the equation comes into play. I like this idea and it is appropriate to where I live given the complete paucity of EV charging stations outside of the main city centre (where I am nowhere near).
This is an appropriate response to the problem I think versus the pie in the sky approaches that assume all the necessary elements for a problem-free EV existence will suddenly appear tomorrow.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 16:17:22

rockdoc123 wrote:With regards to plug-in hybrids an interesting approach to all the current problems seems to have been taken by Land Rover (no longer English owned but instead owned by the Indian company Tata).
The new Range Rover hybrid is cheaper than the high-end Tesla and basically looks exactly like a normal ICE Range Rover. It has a plug-in hybrid engine but what differs here is the range on electric alone is only about 50 km before it reverts to the combustion engine. I think what Land Rover had in mind here was that for folks who use their vehicle for daily commutes the hybrid can handle that task. When they head out on the weekends further afield the ICE part of the equation comes into play. I like this idea and it is appropriate to where I live given the complete paucity of EV charging stations outside of the main city centre (where I am nowhere near).
This is an appropriate response to the problem I think versus the pie in the sky approaches that assume all the necessary elements for a problem-free EV existence will suddenly appear tomorrow.

Yeah, I have to agree 100%, and wish more PHEV's were available.

Also, I think the transitional value for HEV's seems obvious, given the mileage and relatively low cost of the latest generation of the Toyota technology, which it will license to any competitor, guaranteeing the technology can become widespread if it gains broad consumer acceptance.

With the modern platform, the only real HEV disadvantage I see is the possibility that the traction battery needs to be replaced or the hybrid system needs repairs. But with the 8 year 100K warranty on such systems (oh, make that 150K miles and TEN years for all Toyota HEV's starting with 2020 models, for the battery -- see link), and them often going 200K or more miles, that risk seems quite small, IMO, compared to taking the plunge so soon with a BEV. (The Prius has been sold worldwide for 19+ years now, so HEV technlogy is certainly mainstream by now).

https://www.motor1.com/news/375760/toyo ... -warranty/

To me, having the ability to roughly double your gas mileage in the city, without putting up with any of the current BEV down-sides is huge. And of course, if you do very little highway driving, then the PHEV might be a cheap and effective BEV for the city, with no range anxiety when you do need to take a longer trip.

And with those, no worries about whether it takes a 5, 10, or 20 years for the charging infrastructure and battery tech and cost of BEV's to get to where you want it to be as a BEV buyer. Or, if the FCEV becomes the dark horse winner, you also have that option.

Folks like Tesla fanbois try to claim the HEV and PHEV tech. is a non-starter, just like they pretend NONE of the Tesla competition can ever matter. I call BS on that, since for a good decade and maybe two, no reason both HEV and PHEV can't be fine competitors for BEV's, especially considering the cost and functionality trade-offs for anyone who might have range anxiety in their situation.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 19:41:15

rockdoc123 wrote:If some woke individual drove one of those things onto most of the ranches in my neighborhood Musk would have to fix the "bulletproof" issue first.


Your neighborhood sounds like the type who roll-coal on anyone who doesn't drive a V-8. Do you really think an electric powerplant will sell with them even in a conventional package?

There comes a point where generational shift forces progress whether conservative types like it or not. Not to say that you have to learn to love to drive something that looks like this, but just that progress will move forward regardless of luddites.

I can forsee a time when the first guy in the neighborhood has an electric truck (other than the Cybertruck) and he attaches trailer-hitches and drags all the other trucks down the road like in the Cybertruck demo. Then electric won't be so much of a joke anymore. That will be the equivalent of Model Ss beating Ferraris and Corvettes in drag races. Performance trumps tradition.

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BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 23 Nov 2019, 20:31:08

Your neighborhood sounds like the type who roll-coal on anyone who doesn't drive a V-8. Do you really think an electric powerplant will sell with them even in a conventional package?


Practical ranchers, some of whom are fourth generation some who have university educations in agriculture. They utilize the most practical high-tech equipment they can get ahold of. If someone were to offer them a practical EV solution that allowed them to first off get the job done and secondly not look like some dufus who read comic books about space cowboys they would jump at it. The ranching life is messy and when you need to haul stuff, you need to haul stuff and not get stuck or laughed at by you bird dogs while doing it.

Not to say that you have to learn to love to drive something that looks like this, but just that progress will move forward regardless of luddites.


Maybe in San Francisco....not in the heartland where Skoal, Wranglers, Ariat workhogs and Bud Lite are still carried in emergency kits. You need to design for that market.

I can foresee a time when the first guy in the neighborhood has an electric truck (other than the Cybertruck) and he attaches trailer-hitches and drags all the other trucks down the road like in the Cybertruck demo.


Won't matter unless that same truck can carry 10 bales of hay, a fence mender and fence posts across a snowy back 40 and stay running in sub zero weather for a couple of hours while the work gets done. And if it doesn't have a gun rack you won't sell a single one to your target audience.

Performance trumps tradition.


there is a reason pickup trucks as ranch/farm or worksite vehicles have looked essentially the same since the fifties. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If Musk had any brains he would have designed an electric pickup that looked exactly like a Ford F-350, that would have got the attention of the appropriate target audience for this type of vehicle.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby EdwinSm » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 07:07:44

Well this is an extra $15 million in the company's bank account for two years or more, (at $100 / order).

Tesla has received almost 150,000 orders for its new pickup truck, boss Elon Musk has said, despite an embarrassing hiccup at its launch.
.....
Tesla shares dived 6.1% after the event on Thursday and several bad reviews.
....
But on Saturday Mr Musk tweeted: "146k Cybertruck orders so far, with 42% choosing dual, 41% tri & 17% single motor".

The demand had come despite "no advertising & no paid endorsement" for the truck, he said.

No date has been given for the Cybertruck's release, but analysts said it would not be ready before the end of 2021 at the earliest.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50536200
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 10:21:25

Something tells me that the "hiccup" was staged to gain maximum publicity, after all, no one is really going to buy a vehicle and drive it in area where flying steel balls will be aimed at it.

If the glass didn't break, the news coverage would have been far more muted.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 12:59:47

after all, no one is really going to buy a vehicle and drive it in area where flying steel balls will be aimed at it.


except maybe the police in downtown Chicago
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 14:37:43

dolanbaker wrote:If the glass didn't break, the news coverage would have been far more muted.


Nope. The vehicle is weird enough that it would have gotten tons of coverage regardless.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 14:41:23

rockdoc123 wrote:
after all, no one is really going to buy a vehicle and drive it in area where flying steel balls will be aimed at it.


except maybe the police in downtown Chicago


Nope, not tough enough for ChiRaq. A full on MRAP is what is needed there.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 15:50:06

asg70 wrote: Not to say that you have to learn to love to drive something that looks like this, but just that progress will move forward regardless of luddites.

Progress as understood by increase of entropy definitely yes.
Technological progress - only up to constrains dictated by properties of matter, limits on engineering and limits on functioning advanced societies.
So for example climate change, overpopulation, spread of idiocracy from the West to all other corners of the world or global pandemic can nullify recent progress in short to medium term.
Industrial revolution might only be a bubble.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 17:43:23

EnergyUnlimited wrote:climate change, overpopulation, spread of idiocracy from the West to all other corners of the world or global pandemic can nullify recent progress in short to medium term.


What I think is most likely to happen is that EVs will scale up over the next 10 years or so to the point that even if oil depletion kicks into high gear I don't think we'll face the sort of Mad Max scenario peakers have been waiting for all this time. The OTHER dooms will take center stage instead.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 17:53:17

asg70 wrote:What I think is most likely to happen is that EVs will scale up over the next 10 years or so to the point that even if oil depletion kicks into high gear I don't think we'll face the sort of Mad Max scenario peakers have been waiting for all this time. The OTHER dooms will take center stage instead.

Climate change may well deliver Mad Max within 2-5 decades.
Actually (assuming we call Arab migrants in Europe climate refugees) we can already see Mad Max land emerging here and there in Western Europe.
So for example Eurostat have reported rape statistics:
Image
Funny thing is that approximately the more woman rights particular country have, the more rapes are going on there. But again, number of woman rights and number of Muslims in a given country for some reason go hand in hand.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 24 Nov 2019, 21:07:37

The linkage between climate change and muslim immigration is currently weak, IMHO.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 25 Nov 2019, 15:39:27

EnergyUnlimited wrote:Climate change may well deliver Mad Max within 2-5 decades. Actually (assuming we call Arab migrants in Europe climate refugees) we can already see Mad Max land emerging here and there in Western Europe.
So for example Eurostat have reported rape statistics:
Image
Funny thing is that approximately the more woman rights particular country have, the more rapes are going on there. But again, number of woman rights and number of Muslims in a given country for some reason go hand in hand.


There is a serious problem with these kind of self reporting statistics. In heavily Muslim culture countries like Serbia women do not willingly report rape because under Sharia law it is only rape if three men independently verify force was used. If force was not used then you are branded a temptress, not a victim of rape. The consequences are dire for women who make a rape claim and then get labeled not as a victim but as a perpetrator of sexual promiscuity. This effect is not limited to Muslim countries either, until the late 20th century in North America claiming rape would result in a woman being questioned mercilessly about her past sexual experiences in court in front of the man or men who had violated her. If the victim were white and wealthy things might turn out differently, but the only poor women who got the benefit of the doubt were women who blamed a minority male of perpetrating the rape. African American and Hispanic American males accused of raping a "white" European American female were frequently convicted even on flimsy evidence while at the same time an African American woman raped by a European American male had a very hard time getting a conviction against the perpetrator.

These kind of cultural distortions make a self reporting analysis of "rapes per 100,000" very suspect in terms of accuracy IMO. Are women in Muslim or "machismo" oriented cultures safer from rape, or is the cost of reporting a rape so high it is heaping another injustice on top of the initial crime of rape?
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 25 Nov 2019, 17:13:38

@Tanada,
Serbia is one of most Muslim hating cultures known. Hating Muslims is an important factor of Serbian national identity.
That is because Serbs were long, long time bullied by Turks.
Serbs very much like Russians are Orthodox Christians.
This effect is not limited to Muslim countries either, until the late 20th century in North America claiming rape would result in a woman being questioned mercilessly about her past sexual experiences in court in front of the man or men who had violated her.

And rightfully so, as a large proportion of rape claims is made up.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dolanbaker » Mon 25 Nov 2019, 17:28:58

@Tanada, I assume you meant to say Bosnia–Herzegovina, this was the area of Yugoslavia that has the majority Muslim population.
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