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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 09 May 2020, 15:06:11

REAL Green wrote:This is what might make Musk untouchable as far as financial risk. He has connections in the right places


Nothing's stopping the US from developing its own rockets other than its own incompetence.

As for EV credits, I'm surprised there still are any. They started phasing out some time ago, which is one reason the Model Y will find it hard to compete with things like the VW ID4 which will enjoy the full subsidy.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 09 May 2020, 20:16:06

Plantagenet wrote:California shut Tesla down and then Elon tried to open back up and California just shut them down again.

Now Elon is mad. You don't want to make Elon mad.

final-straw-elon-musk-says-hes-suing-alameda-county-moving-tesla-texas-

You'd think California would support Elon's efforts to get his factory going again.

Personally, I think its a mistake for California not to be more supportive of Tesla---they are close to driving away Elon and his gold mine.

Cheers!
Is their anything to stop Musk from dismantling that factory and shipping all the machinery to some other more business oriented state? It would be a great lesson to teach the liberal blue state leaders and I hope he does just that.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 09 May 2020, 20:53:24

vtsnowedin wrote:Is their anything to stop Musk from dismantling that factory and shipping all the machinery to some other more business oriented state?


Tesla's maxing out its line of credit.

vtsnowedin wrote:It would be a great lesson to teach the liberal blue state leaders and I hope he does just that.


If Tesla were really so anti-liberal it would not be trying to make EVs in the first place so think twice about throwing your arms around him as if he's some sort of right-wing ally. What you see here is a symptom of Musk's megalomania (similar to him refusing to follow the orders of the SEC) and not much more than that.

BTW, Tesla already has a consistent track-record of not really caring about worker safety so Musk's attitude of putting workers in harm's way in the interest of keeping the spice flowing comes as no surprise.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsma ... 74921c54ce

This is nothing to celebrate. The problems we've seen recently at meat packing plants are a good example of what could happen with Tesla if it does what it wants to do. It won't necessarily allow Tesla to continue business as usual as much as Musk thinks it will.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 10 May 2020, 17:51:18

vtsnowedin wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:California shut Tesla down and then Elon tried to open back up and California just shut them down again.

Now Elon is mad. You don't want to make Elon mad.

final-straw-elon-musk-says-hes-suing-alameda-county-moving-tesla-texas-

You'd think California would support Elon's efforts to get his factory going again.

Personally, I think its a mistake for California not to be more supportive of Tesla---they are close to driving away Elon and his gold mine.

Cheers!
Is their anything to stop Musk from dismantling that factory and shipping all the machinery to some other more business oriented state? It would be a great lesson to teach the liberal blue state leaders and I hope he does just that.

Just the loss of revenue, as Tesla does that, waits to gear back up re getting the line tuned and the supply strategy all straightened out for, say, a Texas (low taxes and discussed on Seeking Alpha as an alternative) site.

SUPPOSEDLY, Telsa has tons of cash, though re the pitiful amount it earns in a quarter from interest, either it has WILDLY incompetent people managing its cash, or its "cash" is really more about paying long dated debt re suppliers, etc.

Now, of course, if re Musks threat (which is real, I presume), CA/Freemont doesn't back down, then Musk may well go ahead and do that. But that pretty much guarantees a BIG hit to 2Q'20, re revenue and earnings.

And the thing the Tesla fanbois seem to miss: Depending on how COVID-19 in the US progresses, re fall/winter waves, opening waves, etc. -- Musk does NOT control the government and distancing and closing orders in places like TX, no matter how much he'd like to.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 10 May 2020, 18:22:39

I expect cash flow realities will keep Tesla in California for a while but once they decide the government there is not on there side all new expansion and growth will be elsewhere. The reality of that should bring the local government around but they have shown themselves to be very dense. I wonder what the building will be worth once all the machinery has been shipped out and the solar panels on the roof moved to Texas?
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 10 May 2020, 18:46:46

Elon Musk and Tesla just sued Alameda County and California in federal court, seeking a court order that would force the government to allow them to open.

In response, D authorities had a very short response ....""F*uck Elon Musk."

elon-musk-suing-alameda-county-Ds-say-F*uck-Elon-Musk

I see don't why D politicians in California had to get all potty mouthed about Elon Musk. A little flexibility and cooperation might in order here----Who do the Ds think pays for all their welfare programs if not big businesses like Tesla?

IMHO Its not unreasonable that Elon Musk wants to reopen his TESLA factory as soon as possible, especially since he's willing to take steps to encourage masks and social distancing and other reasonable responses to slo the spread of the Wuhan virus. But the Ds in California seem locked in now to shutting him down until a vaccine gets invented or something.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 11 May 2020, 09:47:53

Plant, why are you suddently supporting Tesla when not that long ago you were FUDding about EVs causing cancer? If you see EVs as such a threat to public health why wouldn't you be celebrating any and all impediments these companies encounter?

Oh, I get it, this is just driven by more of your petty R vs. D politics.

Image

As for Tesla, I haven't looked at the numbers recently but US sales had been on a steady decline, hence the Chinese gigafactory. With China opening back up Tesla really needs to focus on that market to prop themselves up.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 11 May 2020, 10:23:47

asg70 wrote:As for Tesla, I haven't looked at the numbers recently but US sales had been on a steady decline, hence the Chinese gigafactory. With China opening back up Tesla really needs to focus on that market to prop themselves up.

Or maybe not.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/05/08/te ... r-q1-2020/
Tesla Model 3 Is Best Selling Luxury Car In USA — By Far (Q1 2020)


ollow CleanTechnica on Google News.

May 8th, 2020 by Zachary Shahan

The Tesla Model 3 accounted for approximately 21% of new small & midsize luxury car sales in the USA in the first quarter of 2020*. For some perspective, the BMW 2 Series, 3 Series, 4 Series, and 5 Series together combined for approximately 15% of the segment’s share (or segments’ share, actually, since we’re combining two segments — small luxury cars and midsize luxury cars). The Mercedes C-Class, CLA-Class, CLS-Class, and E-Class combined for 13%.

The first chart below looks like it’s broken due to the Model 3 being so far in the lead. The second chart pulls together the wide range of somewhat, maybe, possibly relevant competitors for each brand. Of course, the dimensions, passenger space, cargo space, and features of all of these different models shouldn’t be combined in most cases, but as I’ve argued before, if you really want a Tesla, you have only one choice anywhere close to an Audi A2, A3, A4, or A5 (or the same sort of combo for other brands) — the Model 3.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 11 May 2020, 12:20:02



That says more about the lack of demand for luxury sedans than anything else. And Model 3 isn't that luxury when you factory in its spartan interior and inconsistent (at best) fit and finish.

Tesla US sales started out weak in 2019 and then plateaued a lower level than 2018.

There were many breathless pieces talking about how the Model 3 would be the second coming of the VW Beetle, the people's car. It isn't panning out that way. It satisfies a niche just like its other vehicles. The Model Y might have better prospects if it actually looked like an SUV rather than a hatchback and Tesla could finally figure out how to build them right, especially the paint.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 11 May 2020, 12:31:01

Michigan has one of the toughest closures in the US...but they're opening up their auto plants.

Meanwhile in California the governor is opening beaches and burger joints and bars and other non-essential businesses....but auto plants stay closed.

And there is only one auto plant in California----and that is Tesla.

So in California you can get a burger and a beer and then go surfing...but you can't go to work in an auto factory.

No wonder Elon is threatening to move his business out of California.....

SHEESH! :razz: :roll:
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 11 May 2020, 17:24:54

Elon Musk opened his TESLA factory in California in defiance of the fact that the governor has ordered it closed.

liberals-tesla-owners-berate-musk]

Stangely, this has liberals and Ds in California all bent out of shape. You'd think the Ds would want factories to open so people could go to work and earn a salary building EVs and saving the planet and all that, but no..... what the Ds want now is to have everything shut down and people out of work.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 11 May 2020, 17:46:57

Plantagenet wrote:what the Ds want now...


Image

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 11 May 2020, 18:01:39

asg70 wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:what the Ds want now...


Image

True. But OTOH, and this applies EVERYWHERE in the US, not just CA, a bit of consistency, leadership, effective communication, etc. from government re policy like, say, which businesses are allowed to open and WHY, would imply competence, vs. the usual, government randomness, supported by taxpayers' $$.

I mean, for my city, Lexington, KY, for example, why in the hell are liquor stores deemed "critical businesses"? Because drunks might get pissed off? Or all those delicious liquor taxes? Or something actually objective?

Because gas stations, car repair shops, grocery stores, and take-out food I can see -- liquor stores, NOT SO MUCH.


So if CA is actually allowing things like burger joints to open up for seated service (which isn't the case, per Google, rather a discussion of rules -- not surprising that Planty is distorting things, given his history here).

Of course, OTOH, why are flower shops getting such a big break. Like I can't live without sending FLOWERS?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 11 May 2020, 18:20:42

We have had the absurdity of Mom And pop flower shops being closed by Governors order while the Walmart across the street was open and selling flowers for Mother's day.
A couple of hundred potential customers in the small flower shop with several thousand standing in line at Walmart because they could also but food there. Which store will have spread more infection?
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby martines » Tue 12 May 2020, 04:13:59

The best choice it's a make your own solar system in your house roof.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 12 May 2020, 14:56:35

vtsnowedin wrote:We have had the absurdity of Mom And pop flower shops being closed by Governors order while the Walmart across the street was open and selling flowers for Mother's day.
A couple of hundred potential customers in the small flower shop with several thousand standing in line at Walmart because they could also but food there. Which store will have spread more infection?

Absolutely right. Letting businesses like Walmart be crowded with lines and sell pretty much EVERYTHING just because they also sell groceries is absurd. It's essentially letting governors sidestep the whole idea of shutting down, because it's popular with voters. Now, add in other absurdities like walk-in liquor stores being deemed "essential" businesses, and you end up with a huge US infection rate (and increasing still outside NYC, even without the evidence of the recent (and coming) case acceleration due to premature reopening, and little wonder we lead the world in cases by, round numbers, an order of magnitude, vs. any other country (with far worse to come, re the data and behavior re reopening).

What little confidence I had in government re effective leadership and competence in crises has been mostly vaporized in this thing, overall.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Zarquon » Wed 13 May 2020, 02:10:27

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
asg70 wrote:I mean, for my city, Lexington, KY, for example, why in the hell are liquor stores deemed "critical businesses"? Because drunks might get pissed off? Or all those delicious liquor taxes? Or something actually objective?


You don't want a few hundred thousand alcoholics to go into sudden withdrawal all at once.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 13 May 2020, 03:48:42

Zarquon wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
asg70 wrote:I mean, for my city, Lexington, KY, for example, why in the hell are liquor stores deemed "critical businesses"? Because drunks might get pissed off? Or all those delicious liquor taxes? Or something actually objective?


You don't want a few hundred thousand alcoholics to go into sudden withdrawal all at once.

First, there are drive throughs at MANY liquor stores. They don't need the stores open for browsing by customers for alcoholics to get their fix. Also, for those that don't, they could arrange some sort of call-in an curb-side service. Second, many drug stores sell wine and many grocery stores sell beer. So it's NOT like all the alcoholics would be unable to get any liquor.

I understand the politics -- I'm just calling BS on deeming all the liquor stores being fully open for business due to them being "essential", and saying that's political, not logical. (I should have said "essential" instead of "critical", re the approved word for being "needed" enough to justify being open.)
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 13 May 2020, 08:05:56

It varies some from state to state but liqueur taxes are major revenue generators for most states and therein lies the true answer. Also the customers are old enough to vote and will take offense at any restriction on their favorite libation be it wine beer or spirits. New Hampshire has large state owned and operated liqueur stores in Interstate highway rest areas. When the build a new building the contractor has to have a full store open and running up the lot before any hour of operating time is lost in the old building.There is absolutely no chance those stores would be declared nonessential and closed.
Don't know how we got from Tesla to liqueur stores?
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Unread postby martines » Wed 13 May 2020, 08:07:05

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It seems interesting.
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