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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 20:26:08

I’m at a loss about what we are arguing about.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 20:35:28

Outcast_Searcher wrote:The same people braying that no matter what is done re P.R. is terrible and all Trump's fault would be singing the praises of the same effort in the same timeframe, if HRC or similar were in office.

And everything I read says that the VAST majority of the reconstruction IS using wooden poles and WILL be devastated by the next really big storm. (And it would be the same way if HRC were POTUS, IMO).
The cost of burying electric lines is from four to fifteen times the cost of doing it on poles. For Puerto Rico which is already in bankruptcy the only way any lines get buried is if some lottery winner wants to be philanthropic.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 21:35:11

"I’m at a loss about what we are arguing about"

Indeed
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 21:39:41

vtsnowedin wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:The same people braying that no matter what is done re P.R. is terrible and all Trump's fault would be singing the praises of the same effort in the same timeframe, if HRC or similar were in office.

And everything I read says that the VAST majority of the reconstruction IS using wooden poles and WILL be devastated by the next really big storm. (And it would be the same way if HRC were POTUS, IMO).
The cost of burying electric lines is from four to fifteen times the cost of doing it on poles. For Puerto Rico which is already in bankruptcy the only way any lines get buried is if some lottery winner wants to be philanthropic.

I agree. I was just responding to KJ's point that using traditional poles and wires leaves them open to more storm damage (which may be much more likely as AGW proceeds.) Same principle for the idea of making the new system based on localized PV instead of traditional FF generation. Nice idea -- but I don't see anyone lining up to pay for that.
Last edited by Outcast_Searcher on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 21:52:31, edited 1 time in total.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 03 Jan 2018, 21:51:17

GHung wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:And everything I read says that the VAST majority of the reconstruction IS using wooden poles and WILL be devastated by the next really big storm. (And it would be the same way if HRC were POTUS, IMO).


Which "same people" would that be? And what is "everything I read"?
Any citations? Anything at all?

I'll just bet that you're smart enough to Google something like "Puerto Rico Power Restoration" and see many of the articles I've read. Some articles refer to things like lots of poles needing to be replaced.

Or do I really need to hold your hand an post a series of specific links?

...

Since I take the NYT, here's an example:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/23/us/p ... .html?_r=0

To underscore the scope of the work: Almost 50,000 power poles need to be repaired or replaced. Add 500 towers to that. And the towers are so heavy that helicopters cannot carry them, so they have to be installed in stages. It can take up to 10 days just to finish one.

And some of the supplies, such as the 30,000 power poles that were ordered on Oct. 6 — 16 days after the storm — are beginning to arrive only now. Some 400 miles of cable are expected to reach the island in the next two weeks, Mr. González said.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 06 Feb 2018, 15:23:13

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/f ... -rico.html

FEMA Contract Called for 30 Million Meals for Puerto Ricans.

50,000 Were Delivered.


What mathematical genius wants to figure out what percentage of the contracted meals were actually delivered? :)

The mission for the Federal Emergency Management Agency was clear: Hurricane Maria had torn through Puerto Rico, and hungry people needed food. Thirty million meals needed to be delivered as soon as possible.

For this huge task, FEMA tapped Tiffany Brown, an Atlanta entrepreneur with no experience in large-scale disaster relief and at least five canceled government contracts in her past. FEMA awarded her $156 million for the job, and Ms. Brown, who is the sole owner and employee of her company, Tribute Contracting LLC, set out to find some help.

Ms. Brown, who is adept at navigating the federal contracting system, hired a wedding caterer in Atlanta with a staff of 11 to freeze-dry wild mushrooms and rice, chicken and rice, and vegetable soup. She found a nonprofit in Texas that had shipped food aid overseas and domestically, including to a Houston food bank after Hurricane Harvey.

By the time 18.5 million meals were due, Tribute had delivered only 50,000


Heck of a job, there, Ms. Brownie! 8)

Four months after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, a picture is emerging of the contracts awarded in the earliest days of the crisis. And examples like the Tribute contract are causing lawmakers to raise questions about FEMA’s handling of the disaster and whether the agency was adequately prepared to respond.

On Tuesday, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, which has been investigating the contract, asked Representative Trey Gowdy, the committee chairman, to subpoena FEMA for all documents relating to the agreement. Lawmakers fear the agency is not lining up potential contractors in advance of natural disasters, leading it to scramble to award multimillion-dollar agreements in the middle of a crisis.

After Hurricane Katrina in 2005, a bipartisan congressional investigation found that a failure to secure advance contracts led to chaos and potential for waste and fraud. Democrats asserted that FEMA was similarly inept preparing for this storm.

“It appears that the Trump Administration’s response to the hurricanes in Puerto Rico in 2017 suffered from the same flaws as the Bush Administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005,”...


And completely predictably, some Republican/Conservative wag is going to point at these fiascos, caused by the total incompetence of Republican Conservatives, and say, "See, this is proof that government never works."

To which one might repine, "No, Virginia, it is just when totally corrupt Repugs get their hands on critical gov agencies that they fail to work at such utterly disastrous levels, by and large." :)
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 06 Feb 2018, 16:22:05

FWIW,
We were very briefly in the Caicos. What I saw what lots of wire laying along the roads where they had put up new poles and wire post hurricane. Same thing on Mayaguana Island in The Bahamas. So much for reusing.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 06 Feb 2018, 21:05:29

Wow, cool to have someone on these boards who just drifts around and checks in on all these places. Keep up the eye witness reporting.

Any feel for what the mood was in those places? Resignation, anger, optimism...?
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 07 Feb 2018, 07:02:05

They were happy in Mayaguana.

In Caicos we only spoke the customs and immigration. In one day out the next due to wx. If we didn’t leave then we would have been there at least 10 days longer.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 07 Feb 2018, 12:20:31

dohboi wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/fema-contract-puerto-rico.html

FEMA Contract Called for 30 Million Meals for Puerto Ricans.

50,000 Were Delivered.


What mathematical genius wants to figure out what percentage of the contracted meals were actually delivered? :)

The mission for the Federal Emergency Management Agency was clear: Hurricane Maria had torn through Puerto Rico, and hungry people needed food. Thirty million meals needed to be delivered as soon as possible.

For this huge task, FEMA tapped Tiffany Brown, an Atlanta entrepreneur with no experience in large-scale disaster relief and at least five canceled government contracts in her past. FEMA awarded her $156 million for the job, and Ms. Brown, who is the sole owner and employee of her company, Tribute Contracting LLC, set out to find some help.

Ms. Brown, who is adept at navigating the federal contracting system, hired a wedding caterer in Atlanta with a staff of 11 to freeze-dry wild mushrooms and rice, chicken and rice, and vegetable soup. She found a nonprofit in Texas that had shipped food aid overseas and domestically, including to a Houston food bank after Hurricane Harvey.

By the time 18.5 million meals were due, Tribute had delivered only 50,000


Heck of a job, there, Ms. Brownie! 8)

Four months after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, a picture is emerging of the contracts awarded in the earliest days of the crisis. And examples like the Tribute contract are causing lawmakers to raise questions about FEMA’s handling of the disaster and whether the agency was adequately prepared to respond.

On Tuesday, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, which has been investigating the contract, asked Representative Trey Gowdy, the committee chairman, to subpoena FEMA for all documents relating to the agreement. Lawmakers fear the agency is not lining up potential contractors in advance of natural disasters, leading it to scramble to award multimillion-dollar agreements in the middle of a crisis.

After Hurricane Katrina in 2005, a bipartisan congressional investigation found that a failure to secure advance contracts led to chaos and potential for waste and fraud. Democrats asserted that FEMA was similarly inept preparing for this storm.

“It appears that the Trump Administration’s response to the hurricanes in Puerto Rico in 2017 suffered from the same flaws as the Bush Administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005,”...


And completely predictably, some Republican/Conservative wag is going to point at these fiascos, caused by the total incompetence of Republican Conservatives, and say, "See, this is proof that government never works."

To which one might repine, "No, Virginia, it is just when totally corrupt Repugs get their hands on critical gov agencies that they fail to work at such utterly disastrous levels, by and large." :)


This points out something that I first ran across as a kid, and have encountered many times as an adult. It used to be, when I was a kid, that when something like a government agency put a job up for contract that they threw out the low bids that those in charge could see were attempts to get the work, but for which they didn't feel the job could be done.

I can remember listening to my dad talking to a room of men about this. There was some project that had to do with the town we lived in at the time. He wasn't involved in the process, but some of them were. They were upset that someone had put in a bid that was too low. After they talked about it, related to each other what they thought the minimum cost to do the things was, the other men agreed to throw that bid out. They were talking to my dad because he would have known what a proper bid that could do the job and not fail at it would be. Later, I learned this, throwing out the low bids, was common practice.

Later in life, when I was working as a house painter for a friend of mine I discovered that practice was no longer respected. We would constantly put in bids that we understood were pretty close to the bone, but for which we could still make a profit if everything went as planned. We didn't win many of those bids. Instead, low ball bidders won them. Enough of the time that it was noticeable, they couldn't finish the jobs they started. That was when the original party would call us. Sometimes we would say 'yes.' We didn't always agree to do it because sometimes we knew we would have to start from scratch and the homeowner was too cheap to pay for that. Worse than that, the fact it happened with homeowners, was that it also worked that way with town or county jobs. In those cases, however, there was sometimes something more nefarious at work. I call it the time and materials scam. You see, the general contractors for those jobs knew that those outfits couldn't do the job for the low bid, but they had made provision for certain contractors who they had relationships with to get them anyway. Those contractors bid low. That was when the general contractor would engineer extra stuff, changes, that would get paid for by time and materials. That's how the low bidders made money on those jobs. To get there the subs had to pass through a kind of initiation of suffering loss once or twice on low bids before the time and materials thing would open up for them.

This is what happens when markets get distorted by ideology. In this case it is the ideology on the right that says that price is the only determinant in determining the equilibrium point of the market. They do that, and then they throw the concept of the 'holy market' at us. But their version of what constitutes the market is too simple. It is ideologically driven. It doesn't have any room for accepting that the players in the market must have standing before they can engage in the market. They insist it must be about price.

Liberals do the same thing when it comes to immigration, to provide another example. They insist that things other than standing must determine whether a person gets in. They don't address what constitutes standing. They could attempt to include their arguments into the fray over what constitutes standing, but they don't. Instead they argue for humanitarian acceptance. I guess that's quicker. They're right, according to their argument, but wrong according to the concept of standing. The trouble is that when such things occur you get immigrants who don't know enough about the societies they are entering such that they understand either their rights or the rights of the citizens who were there before them. They can succeed economically well enough, sometimes, but they can't understand the rest of what makes up the place they are in.

A simpler example would be how we don't allow children to drive. They don't have standing. It doesn't matter if they are genius children either. That won't change their standing as children.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 07 Feb 2018, 12:52:43

In an ideal world, competence and skill would be the determining factor in placing people for jobs and into certain positions. What you call standing Evil. But we live in far from an ideal world. Our world is more characterized by corruption and opportunism whereby competitive advantages and ruthless maneuvers are more of a determinant of our positions in jobs but also in society at large.
Puerto Rico is emblematic of the underdogs of this world, who must fight an uphill battle to attain more of a standing. Exploitation is an outgrowth of our type of world. Some both within Puerto Rico and in the greater US, have found it convenient to exploit this area and its people
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 09 Mar 2018, 21:10:53

So I’m here in PR now. Haven’t gotten about a lot yet but I have a few observations.

We are in Salinas, about 20 miles East of Ponce. Folks tell me Maria’s Eye passed over this little harbor.
Some where’s between 30 and 80 boats were sunk/abandoned here. Apparently the USCG arranges a badge to remove most of them. The harbor is pretty clear of hulks now.
The marina took a wack. 3’ of water. Top floor of restaurant blown out. Fuel dock and some other docks destroyed.
Hard to say what damage we see is from the storm and what is just plain neglect. Some houses would have fallen down in a good breeze. But clearly there are some heavily damaged by the storm, but not universal, most didn’t have heavy damage. I see a fair number of houses being rebuilt. But that might be storm damage or just people fixing up their places. Can’t tell how much of which.
Electric seems to be fine
Cell data sorta sucks but that may have been like that before.
Lots of wire down in some areas, others not. One street the wire is just a tangled mess. Most streets are clear.
Tonight I noticed a large (70ish foot) galvanized sectional pole bent in half. That sorta brought home to me the strength of the storm. Those puppies are well engineered and done buckle easily
Most street lights are missing or not working. People are coping remarkably well. But they never paid them much mind anyway.
Street signage is largly missing. Makes getting around fun.
The motel at the mRina has some Army Corp contractors. Typical construction guys want to talk about their per Dien rate more than anything.
There is a new fiber optic cable being laid through the middle of town.
Lots of blue tarps on roofs.
We see some commercial buildings damaged, metal roofs and awnings torn off. One gas station had the canopy blown over taking out the pumps. No sign of any repair being done.

Most everything is open even if their storefront signs are gone. People are going about their business. You can see signs of the storm but it’s not Armageddon. In general people are coping. This is a local tourist area with lots of little restaurants. The places are hoping Fri/Sat/Sun.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 12:40:02

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:The same people braying that no matter what is done re P.R. is terrible and all Trump's fault would be singing the praises of the same effort in the same timeframe, if HRC or similar were in office.

And everything I read says that the VAST majority of the reconstruction IS using wooden poles and WILL be devastated by the next really big storm. (And it would be the same way if HRC were POTUS, IMO).
The cost of burying electric lines is from four to fifteen times the cost of doing it on poles. For Puerto Rico which is already in bankruptcy the only way any lines get buried is if some lottery winner wants to be philanthropic.

I agree. I was just responding to KJ's point that using traditional poles and wires leaves them open to more storm damage (which may be much more likely as AGW proceeds.) Same principle for the idea of making the new system based on localized PV instead of traditional FF generation. Nice idea -- but I don't see anyone lining up to pay for that.


I think it definitely leaves them open to more storm damage, and that they have time to go with wooden poles until it happens again. I do think they will get another hurricane like the last one, or worse, inside the next two decades. The trouble is that they could get it next year as well. It's like a coin flip. The odds may not be fifty/fifty, but the same risk of the probability occurring on the next go is there. We have not yet gone so far into climate change that we can be certain that hurricanes of that size will pummel the gulf region and its land masses every single year at a high frequency. The next question that comes to my mind is not about when to put in a more hardened infrastructure, but when would I want to leave Puerto Rico for good? But I think like an individual.

There will always be people in Puerto Rico. What is their best option? Right now, it's poles. Should they roll out sectional replacement of those as they go along? Is the best option to bury the power lines instead? Do steel towers in better foundations present an option? Maybe they should be bull headed about preserving the wooden poles because money was spent on them, and we all know how important money spent is in these equations.

You know, they could do something collectively that solves their problem. They could use the power in their numbers. Should they be experimenting with some of the ideas people have proposed for domestically produced energy integration? You know, how many predict that the grid will change as a result of so many people producing their own electricity at home. An initiative like that is a good reason to spend some money. They could wrap the cost of burying the lines within that scheme. If they got enough Federal help, and rich people didn't whine too much about paying taxes to help 'those' people, they might be able to pull it off. Plus, if that actually wouldn't work, wouldn't it be good to confine the mistake to an island? The relatively small cost of covering that kind of large scale mistake would be better paid there than across the entire country. They could make the mistake for the rest of us. That could be the price they pay to satisfy the tax whiners. The payoff for the potential loss of decades for Puerto Rico would be the hardened lines. If it worked, though, nobody would be thinking about that.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 13:29:16

evilgenius wrote: They could make the mistake for the rest of us. That could be the price they pay to satisfy the tax whiners. The payoff for the potential loss of decades for Puerto Rico would be the hardened lines. If it worked, though, nobody would be thinking about that.

I generally agree with your points about the trade-offs re Puerto Rico. Especially about the concept that the "right" solution isn't obvious, since probability (re unpredictable weather) and cost are key issues with big trade-offs.

As someone who has had solid earnings and paid a LOT of US federal taxes since I started working when I was 22, I'd like to understand your "tax whiner" idea.

How much taxation is enough? Do the "rich" (as you define them) need to pay 90% of their earnings in silence? If the liberals get that, then is the next benchmark 99%? 99.9%? IOW, is it ever enough?

Does it matter how the money is spent? Does it matter if a third of it or more of it is arguably spent on people who refuse to take responsibility and pay federal taxes to receive the benefits they expect from the system?

...

When I started working, about $100 a week, or 25% of my salary was withheld for federal taxes. And I wasn't rich by ANY means. I read an article in the WSJ about how a light bulb for some military application cost ten cents to make, but cost taxpayers right at $100, once all the costs were accounted for to have it in inventory, etc. were factored in.

I was so pissed I wanted to buy 1000 of them for a week's federal taxes, cart them to an inventory site, and tell them to leave me the hell ALONE via taxation for about 20 years (roughly 50 weeks a year for 20 years, or roughly 1000 weeks of taxes).

Naturally, I knew that was completely impractical, but when I see lots of my tax money being wasted or spent on (mentally and physically sound) people who can't be bothered to make a serious effort to contribute - I have a problem with the way the tax system works.

It's easy, IMO, to call people names, "tax whiner" or anything else. It's a lot harder to consider both sides of an issue and try to make the system better. I found out (being young and stupid) writing letters to the folks on Capitol Hill doesn't get anything done, FWIW.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 15:28:39

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
evilgenius wrote: They could make the mistake for the rest of us. That could be the price they pay to satisfy the tax whiners. The payoff for the potential loss of decades for Puerto Rico would be the hardened lines. If it worked, though, nobody would be thinking about that.

I generally agree with your points about the trade-offs re Puerto Rico. Especially about the concept that the "right" solution isn't obvious, since probability (re unpredictable weather) and cost are key issues with big trade-offs.

As someone who has had solid earnings and paid a LOT of US federal taxes since I started working when I was 22, I'd like to understand your "tax whiner" idea.

How much taxation is enough? Do the "rich" (as you define them) need to pay 90% of their earnings in silence? If the liberals get that, then is the next benchmark 99%? 99.9%? IOW, is it ever enough?

Does it matter how the money is spent? Does it matter if a third of it or more of it is arguably spent on people who refuse to take responsibility and pay federal taxes to receive the benefits they expect from the system?

...

When I started working, about $100 a week, or 25% of my salary was withheld for federal taxes. And I wasn't rich by ANY means. I read an article in the WSJ about how a light bulb for some military application cost ten cents to make, but cost taxpayers right at $100, once all the costs were accounted for to have it in inventory, etc. were factored in.

I was so pissed I wanted to buy 1000 of them for a week's federal taxes, cart them to an inventory site, and tell them to leave me the hell ALONE via taxation for about 20 years (roughly 50 weeks a year for 20 years, or roughly 1000 weeks of taxes).

Naturally, I knew that was completely impractical, but when I see lots of my tax money being wasted or spent on (mentally and physically sound) people who can't be bothered to make a serious effort to contribute - I have a problem with the way the tax system works.

It's easy, IMO, to call people names, "tax whiner" or anything else. It's a lot harder to consider both sides of an issue and try to make the system better. I found out (being young and stupid) writing letters to the folks on Capitol Hill doesn't get anything done, FWIW.


Yeah, I had a friend who used to work in accounting at Lockheed's or Northrup Grumman's skunkworks, it doesn't really matter which. He got to see the B-2 before the shape of it was made public. His take on the $100 hammers and $1,000 toilets was not like everyone else's. He knew that stuff costs money to not only invent, but to build as well. It's difficult to forecast what those costs will be when a company does a bid for a project like the next stealth bomber. They didn't low ball their bid, but neither were they willing to frighten the public with the true costs. That's not the same kind of corruption as what we are used to. I agree it is corruption, though. I'd much rather they were honest up front because the public should know the real cost of things like that up front.

It also costs a lot to make things like businesses work from scratch. People don't go into business to break even. So, getting something for the price one thinks is fair may not really be fair to the one providing it to you. It's one thing for them to volunteer to eat the cost of some part of shipping or storage, but another to force them to because you have pricing power. With the indolent it is fashionable to pretend something else is going on. Even there, though, there is a certain protection racket going on. We pay the indolent not to rob us, in certain ways. Get too cheap with that and see what happens. I don't think they would be violent so much as utterly incorrigible. It's a great cost to have no art or civility in society. Get too cheap with people in other ways and their kids don't grow up thinking like you do. Too cheap in other ways and you lose a common infrastructure. Infrastructure costs a lot to build, even if you are only building it for people who are like you. Nevermind that cheapness as a political ideology all by itself, if allowed to reign supreme, will erode our ability to think top down. It will cause only projects that benefit some group that has feedback to go forward, not groups that have weak voices. It's what we have now. Welcome to the world of public/private partnerships.

Basically, it's an economic issue. And it has to do with the value of money. If you think as I do and consider that the value of money has to do with the faith of the people, then if the people devalue the money in their minds it will be devalued in your pocket too. If they value it highly it will be valued highly for you as well. You can see how under a devaluing you would need a lot more money saved to accomplish the same things. If money is worth working for, or, at least, seen that way then the rich stand a chance. Hyperinflation comes when the people entirely lose faith in a currency, which is generally to lose faith in much to do with a country. Those kinds of infrastructure rebuilds wipe out even the richest. I think you need to keep those kinds of lines in mind when considering generosity of spirit when it comes to taxes. It's ok to have so many indolent helpless people. They should be helping themselves. Get past a certain critical mass, however, and then all it takes is for some idea to crop up amongst the indolent, like redistribution. It isn't like guns will help you either. The indolent have most of the guns. Paying taxes is participating in such a way as to protect yourself.

That being said, I think you are arguing from the perspective of one who opposes those who think goodness is about rights or some such thing. It's a very different idea than the one of spreading opportunity. Under the thinking which prioritizes rights people deserve things merely for existing. Under opportunity people take chances. They get rewarded according to risk. But what they sometimes forget is the role luck also plays in their success. There are some things we maybe should say that everybody deserves, like freedom of speech. That's a good one because you can only drown out those you can personally shout over. And, even if you can, others can still choose who to listen to. Under the rights based way of thinking many things have moved over from one side of the ledger to the other that can't be so basically recognized as freedom of speech can. Some people complain about what is going on in terms of acceptance of certain behaviors as much as others complain about the poor sucking them dry. I can't tell you where the lines are. What happens when one person's legitimate right is banged right up against another's? Are we supposed to evaluate rights relative to each other? I think if we do much of that the people will come for your money. Your right to it is only as strong as the number of people who actually have it combined with the number of those who see themselves as capable of having it, as long as the system is fair. If that number becomes too small in relation to the population in general, then we all have a problem.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 16:27:12

I very briefly spoke to an Army Corp engineer yesterday. He was ancivil engineer, I think he was supervising contractors. He said the Army guys would be gone in a week or two, including the power people.

The “blue roof” brigade went around doing temp repairs on folks roofs. Just to tide them over. As he said “They still have a shitty roof.”

The electrical work is a mess. I got to drive around a bit more and as I had opportunity to take things in I see that they sort of have things back in a makeshift fashion. There are medium voltage lines that are down and won’t be back in a couple of weeks.

Telephone and cable lines are a mess. I’m presuming a lot of them were already redundant, must have been. There a lot of places (around this neighborhood) where the cables are cut off and dangling about head high.

We were in Ponce, a larger city, the other day and things looked much better there. But even there the preponderance of street lights are out.

So it looks like the Corps will get things back working but using work around a and minimal fixes. I would expect a long and frustrating recover. Based on my narrow observations PR is now in a MUCH more vulnerable state than they were this time last year.

I hope to get another day when we can drive up into the mountains and check out those areas.

BUT I also noticed two wind farms right on the coast in this area. They must predate the storm. They seem to be up and working. If reports are correct that the Eye passed over here they would have felt the full strength of the wind. I’m surprised at their survival.

Note the wire laying all over the ground. This pole line won’t be useful for a while yet.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 18:09:42

Have you noticed an attitude that translates to "the government ain't coming so I have to fix it myself"?
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 19:11:26

No. I’m sure it happens on a personal basis. This house or that restaurant.

But how would that manifest when dealing with distribution lines?

I don’t speak the native language and mingle in the kind of level where I can pick up those kinds of attitudes. I’m just a floater passing through. :-D
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 22:05:14

Newfie wrote:No. I’m sure it happens on a personal basis. This house or that restaurant.

But how would that manifest when dealing with distribution lines?

I don’t speak the native language and mingle in the kind of level where I can pick up those kinds of attitudes. I’m just a floater passing through. :-D

I hear you on the language barrier. You will have to look for actions instead of words. Houses being hammered together with recycled wood with recycled (hammered straight) nails etc.
I would think the most ambitious will build some very hurricane resistant houses over the next few years.
I would also think the power lines between the generating stations and the hospitals would get first priority on being buried and hurricane proof.
But I am a rosy eyed optimist and seldom get what I think will happen.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 11 Mar 2018, 23:36:31

Much of PR is a hellhole because they have never had anything but quick and dirty fixes. If they are going to use tax dollars to make repairs, they should do it right and bury the lines. The above picture of a steel tower is enough reason.
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