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President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 11 Aug 2020, 20:35:00

jedrider wrote:Let's face it, destroying government institutions .....


Which government institution do you imagine Trump has destroyed?

Or was that statement yet another ridiculous exaggeration? :roll:

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 10:48:00

Scared away immigrants from coming to our country?

Gave a shot in the arm to Christian Evangelicals that wish to impose 2000 year old beliefs on the rest of the nation?

Reinvigorated rascist sentiments and white exceptionalism.

I hardly think he has made any good moves there, and forget about transparancy in government, competence (unless you think cronyism implies competence), the environment, crisis management.

The list is pretty bleak.

Let's face it, destroying government institutions and trampling on Democratic principles is not a good start for improving our nation, despite how bad you believe politics as usual has been, which is bad enough, because it led to Trump (and many other disastrous outcomes still to be reckoned with).


Good points, jed. And all pretty much straight out of the fascist playbook. I can't much help people who just refuse to see the reality being played out in front of them, and who deny that recorded words were actually said.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 10:51:01

Newf, here's a recent specific policy that I hope you can join me and Plant in condemning:

Trump's EPA drops regulations designed to reduce methane emissions in the USA


epa-roll-back-methane-emissions-limits

Thanks to P for pointing this out in the methane thread
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 11:51:04

dohboi wrote:Newf, here's a recent specific policy that I hope you can join me and Plant in condemning:

Trump's EPA drops regulations designed to reduce methane emissions in the USA


epa-roll-back-methane-emissions-limits

Thanks to P for pointing this out in the methane thread

Just one more thing for Harris to remind Joe to undo on January 21st. 8)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 13:19:36

vtsnowedin wrote:
dohboi wrote:Newf, here's a recent specific policy that I hope you can join me and Plant in condemning:

Trump's EPA drops regulations designed to reduce methane emissions in the USA


epa-roll-back-methane-emissions-limits

Thanks to P for pointing this out in the methane thread

Just one more thing for Harris to remind Joe to undo on January 21st. 8)

Seriously, the list is LONG. Probably needs to be some serious staff work just to assemble the list and the plan so it can be implemented as rapidly as practical. And that's just for the blatantly obvious stuff.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 17:53:32

Good point, OS.

Worth a new thread?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 19:52:53

dohboi wrote:Good point, OS.

Worth a new thread?

New thread or left here there are major issues that once considered by the voters might give many of them pause.
They have clearly stated they want to roll back Trumps tax cut which will make all those that actually got a cut (including solid middle class me)take a hard look at what they are proposing.
Then there is "gun control" which gun owners read as gun confiscation and that will cost them a few million votes there.
Next comes health care where they have said numerous times they want a Bernie style medicade for all with all current insurance polices nul and void.
If you have good insurance which a few million actually do have then having the government take over with their proven track record of incompetence might cost them another few million votes.
And the list goes on and I'm sure others will expand on it in the next 83 days but I have to think it is possible that the disasterous F%%king Moron might actually beat this pair based on the policies they wish put in place.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 20:21:26

Any sources for any of that, or did you pull them out of some nether region? :-D
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 21:20:55

dohboi wrote:Any sources for any of that, or did you pull them out of some nether region? :-D

Why not just go to their site and read their position papers?
Everything I listed above is a matter of public record.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 21:25:37

For example:
Ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Federal law prevents hunters from hunting migratory game birds with more than three shells in their shotgun. That means our federal law does more to protect ducks than children. It’s wrong. Joe Biden will enact legislation to once again ban assault weapons. This time, the bans will be designed based on lessons learned from the 1994 bans. For example, the ban on assault weapons will be designed to prevent manufacturers from circumventing the law by making minor changes that don’t limit the weapon’s lethality. While working to pass this legislation, Biden will also use his executive authority to ban the importation of assault weapons.

https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Aug 2020, 21:49:54

If you need an assault weapon to kill quail, you're not much of a hunter, imho.

With the NRA on the rocks, there won't be much of a coordinated push back on those kinds of things, I'm guessing

But yeah, I'm sure Trump and the Republicans will try all sorts of ways to scare voters into thinking Biden/Kamala are the devils incarnate.

Tax cuts, as we all know, mostly went to the very wealthy. And even many of them think they should not have gotten them
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 00:09:25

Will Enough Americans Show Up to stop Trump From Using the Dictator's Playbook?
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/08/11/will-enough-americans-show-stop-trump-using-dictators-playbook

I have to pinch myself and ask myself whether this is 'fake' news because it is hard to believe and must be a liberal plot (just as Fox News always does) to alarm the public. However, I think not.

You can look at individual events and say, well, he doesn't know what he's doing. But, looking at the whole picture, he does know what he's doing and he has enablers helping with this obviously. If you're the President, it's easy to find enablers it appears. Perhaps, they were already there just waiting for such an opportunity.

I think the turnout for this election will be substantial, but the Coronavirus works both ways, complicating matters certainly. If not for that little virus, Trump wouldn't be so desperate, I suspect, nor would he have such a clear path for authoritarian measures that we don't yet expect. That must be how it works, people get caught by surprise and don't realize what's happening. Fortunately, we do have a press that is coming alive, I hope, to report on this and not keep it hidden.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 04:31:47

dohboi wrote:
Tax cuts, as we all know, mostly went to the very wealthy. And even many of them think they should not have gotten them

That is false. The average tax payer got a significant cut while the rich had the deduct-ability of state and local taxes and interest on large mortgages reduced.
That the total tax cut in billions fell more to the rich comes from the fact that the rich pay the majority of the taxes to begin with and a 2.6% cut in the tax rate on your last millions balances out several tax payers getting a one to four thousand dollar cut on median incomes.
If Biden and Kamala win and you still have a job expect your own taxes go up by a quarter or a third from what you paid last year. That assumes they go back to the old rules which is their stated starting point and of course they can go on from there with new universal healthcare taxes and green new deal carbon taxes and on and on.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 04:47:50

jedrider wrote:I think the turnout for this election will be substantial, but the Coronavirus works both ways, complicating matters certainly.

Based on Tuesday's turnout for a primary election, with few of the incumbents in any danger, of forty percent I think November will be not just substantial but record setting. People are fed up and will be heard at the ballot box.
If not for that little virus, Trump wouldn't be so desperate, I suspect, nor would he have such a clear path for authoritarian measures that we don't yet expect. That must be how it works, people get caught by surprise and don't realize what's happening. Fortunately, we do have a press that is coming alive, I hope, to report on this and not keep it hidden.

If anything the press is already inciting the crowd to protest things before they happen. Trump might file some law suits to stop counting mailed in ballots that come in days and weeks after election day but other then that there is nothing plausible he could really do to seize any authoritarian power that would be tolerated or supported by other officers of the government.
He can send Federal marshals or troops to defend public buildings or arrest rioters but those same officers or troops will not participate in a coup of the US government.And even if Trump is so delusional that he can't see that limitation on his power the Joint chiefs of staff and the Justice department can.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 08:57:20

Yes,
Both side are hyping the propaganda to ear piercing levels.
Some days I see NO news stories, just various forms of propaganda. All designed to emotionally jack up the population.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 14:17:12

From that leftie rag, Forbes :lol: :lol:

...many people will technically have lower taxes, but the cuts are so tiny as to be hardly noticeable. The Tax Policy Center estimates the 60% of Americans at the lower end of the income distribution will have federal tax savings of less than $1,000.

Also, most people believe the tax cuts didn’t benefit people like them but only the very wealthy. They are right. Those in the top 1% save $51,000...

...The biggest winners in the Trump tax cuts were corporations and the households that get income from corporate profits—that is, the very wealthiest Americans. The top corporate income tax rate dropped by almost 40%, from 35% to 21%. And that cut is permanent, while the household rate cuts expire after 2025.

The imbalance between household and corporate benefits is unpopular, with 62% of Americans saying it bothers them “a lot” that “some corporations don’t pay their fair share.” Even 42% of Republicans are bothered “a lot” about this.
(But not, apparently, vt, for some mysterious reason)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghil ... 47f8c513e0
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 15:12:00

dohboi wrote:...The biggest winners in the Trump tax cuts were corporations and the households that get income from corporate profits—that is, the very wealthiest Americans. The top corporate income tax rate dropped by almost 40%, from 35% to 21%. And that cut is permanent, while the household rate cuts expire after 2025.



Regarding taxes I thought was pretty enlightening

For many years, those on the conservative right in the United States have invoked a nostalgia for the 1950s, and an America that never was, but has to be presumed to have existed ...... In truth, at least in economic terms, the country of the 1950s resembled Denmark as much as the America of today. Marginal tax rates for the wealthy were 90 percent. The salaries of CEOs were, on average, just 20 times that of their mid-management employees.


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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 17:03:13

Ibon wrote: those on the conservative right in the United States have invoked a nostalgia for the 1950s, and an America that never was, but has to be presumed to have existed ...... In truth, at least in economic terms, the country of the 1950s resembled Denmark as much as the America of today. Marginal tax rates for the wealthy were 90 percent.


I never understand why people don't know just how tricky the tax code of the United States is.....

For instance, just about nobody in the US paid those high marginal tax rates you are praising from 1950s. I'm afraid it is you who nostalgic for a 1950s tax code the never was. In truth, at least in economic terms, the US tax code in the 1950s bore virtually no resemblance to Denmark. Virtually no one in the US paid 90% tax rates.

The Congress instituted numerous exemptions and deductions and special treatment for wealthy people so they didn't pay that much.

Personally, I'd rather see a simple, fair tax that everyone pays, then go back to the 1950s when the tax code was a big fraud......with high tax rates to fool people into thinking the rich were being highly taxed, but stuffed with special exemptions for wealthy people and favored industries so that their taxes were actually very low.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 18:38:16

Fair and understandable taxes. Many years ago there was talk of a flat rate tax.

1% wealth has been rising for many years across all administrations.

Biden was recently quoted as telling Walk Street investors to not worry, he wasn’t going to change anything.

And that’s the message you get with a Harris VP pick. She is a solid insider vetted by the DNC to not rock the boat.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 13 Aug 2020, 20:18:56

Wait, what?

So you would have preferred and Sanders/Warren ticket now?
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