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President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 18 Feb 2019, 16:24:42

I do think the push for more government and centralization ie. EU, the Democrats bears the risk inherently of Fascism. I have tried to tell Cog and Kaiser I am not a Communist. My political philosophy is Anarchy. No government.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Mon 18 Feb 2019, 17:01:20

onlooker wrote:I do think the push for more government and centralization ie. EU, the Democrats bears the risk inherently of Fascism. I have tried to tell Cog and Kaiser I am not a Communist. My political philosophy is Anarchy. No government.


You are no anarchist. I've read your complaints and solutions to the ills of being an American ruled by capitalism. At every turn you have advocated a government solution to fix things. That is not an anarchist.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 18 Feb 2019, 18:51:34

The problem Cog is that with our size there is virtually no non-governmental solution to any problem. Even the Secind Amendment, you rely upon the SCOTUS, the third branch of government, to uphold your rights and for the Federal LEOs to enforce those rights. Onlybthe Federal government can, or will, do anything to secure borders and stem illegal immigration.

The Left want the government out of the bedroom and to leave abortion alone, so in some instances you and they agree. Just not on particulars.

Like it or not the government is ubiquitous.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 08:49:55

The Trump Administration is now being investigated for the attempted transfer of sensitive nuclear technology in contravention of section 123 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 to Saudi Arabia in exchange for personal financial gain. Selling sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia. That clearly falls under the definition of Espionage.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 08:51:23

It more clearly falls under the definition of fake news.

There is exactly zero evidence there is a personal gain motive here. The construction of nuclear power plants in Saudi Arabia has long been something different US administrations have tried to accomplish with cooperative agreements.

But Cid isn't interested in all of that.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 09:26:29

I'm not denying that Democratic Administrations in particular have sought to transfer nuclear technology to the Arabs. That is because they are under the mistaken impression that Israel and the Arabs will not fight a nuclear war. But MAD does not work when there are truly mad Jihadi's ready to die to accomplish political and religious goals. Do not forget that both Douglas MacArthur and Curtis Lemay were American generals who thought we could "win" a nuclear war with the Soviets.

Once fissionable materials exist in quantity in Saudi Arabia, there is a short path to nuclear war in the ME, and a high liklihood of it happening relatively soon. Thoughts of nuclear doom depress me. Time to go watch Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb again.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 09:49:26

Sounds like some would prefer that the Chinese or Russians sold nuclear technology to the Saudi's instead of American companies. I see Cid didn't object to the Iranians having that nuclear technology. Course Obama didn't either as evidenced by the pallets of cash he sent them.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 10:32:09

It is totally irrelevant in any case, the technology is widely available and with the right incentive Pakistan can supply the experts and materials bypassing the 'big three' nuclear powers entirely.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 11:12:21

What Cid left out, not to my surprise, is that this is nuclear power plants not weapons design. Everyone does understand that the technology involved is dual purpose. You can produce plutonium and enrich uranium from a commercial power plant. But there are no international norms or regulations prohibiting the Saudi's from having commercial nuclear power plants. The peaceful use of nuclear power is one of the reasons the IEA exists.

Trump is always going to push that American companies get contracts before anyone else in the world. I understand the Democrats don't like that particular idea but those who voted for him do.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 14:14:39

KaiserJeep wrote:Once fissionable materials exist in quantity in Saudi Arabia, there is a short path to nuclear war in the ME, and a high likelihood of it happening relatively soon.
.
A path being short does not lead to people taking it. Especially if the path leads to the door to Hades.
I think the Saudis want nuclear power to run their air conditioners while saving exportable oil and gas they are using now. One thing they have going for them is that there is plenty of space in the "empty quarter to store the waste from the nuke plant or plants.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 14:54:08

Section 123 of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act (AEA) of 1954 establishes the conditions and outlines the process for major nuclear cooperation between the United States and other countries. In order for a country to enter into such an agreement with the United States, that country must commit to a set of nine nonproliferation criteria.

The nine nonproliferation criteria for section 123 agreements are as follows:
•Nuclear material and equipment transferred to the country must remain under safeguards in perpetuity.
•Non-nuclear-weapon states partners must have full-scope IAEA safeguards, essentially covering all major nuclear facilities.
•A guarantee that transferred nuclear material, equipment, and technology will not have any role in nuclear weapons development or any other military purpose, except in the case of cooperation with nuclear-weapon states.
•In the event that a non-nuclear-weapon state partner detonates a nuclear device using nuclear material produced or violates an IAEA safeguards agreement, the United States has the right to demand the return of any transfers.
•U.S. consent is required for any re-transfer of material or classified data.
•Nuclear material transferred or produced as a result of the agreement is subject to adequate physical security.
•U.S. prior consent rights to the enrichment or reprocessing of nuclear material obtained or produced as a result of the agreement.
•Prior U.S. approval is required for highly-enriched uranium (HEU) and plutonium obtained or produced as a result of the agreement. An agreement permitting enrichment and reprocessing (ENR) using U.S. provided material requires separate negotiation.
•The above nonproliferation criteria apply to all nuclear material or nuclear facilities produced or constructed as a result of the agreement.

Section 123 requires that the Department of State submit a Nuclear Proliferation Assessment Statement (NPAS) explaining how the nuclear cooperation agreement meets these nonproliferation conditions. Congress has a total of 90 days in continuous session to consider the agreement, after which it automatically becomes law unless Congress adopts a joint resolution opposing it.

The President may exempt a proposed agreement from any of the above criteria upon determination maintaining such a criteria would be “seriously prejudicial to the achievement of U.S. non-proliferation objectives or otherwise jeopardize the common defense of the United States.” Exempted 123 agreements would then go through a different process than non-exempt agreements, requiring a congressional joint resolution approving the agreement for it to become law. There are no 123 agreements in force that were adopted with such exemptions.


The Trump Administration attempted an end run around Congress, attempting to transfer sensitive nuclear technology without congressional approval or the limitations required under Section 123. And outright sell sensitive technology for personal profit.

That is the definition of Espionage.

God, you guys will excuse anything.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:04:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 14:59:45

CNN just announced the special counsel will submit his report to the DOJ next week.

THen we'll finally get to see if Mueller found evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians, or if this entire 2 year circus has been a witch hunt as Trump has been saying.

Cheers!

PS: I'm getting very tired of Mueller leaking to CNN. What a sloppy partisan effort it has turned out to be. I hope the FBI ombudsman investigates the Mueller investigation to see who's doing all this illegal leaking--IMHO its a disgrace to the mission of the FBI to have this kind of partisan tilt to the Mueller investigation.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:09:23

That is absolute bullshit, Barr intends to end the investigation next week regardless if it is done or not.

Good thing Mueller farmed it out to the states where Barr has no jurisdiction. The investigations will continue, and the results cannot be blocked by the Trump Administration.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:14:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:13:45

Cid_Yama wrote:The Trump Administration is now being investigated for the attempted transfer of sensitive nuclear technology in contravention of section 123 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 to Saudi Arabia in exchange for personal financial gain. Selling sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia. That clearly falls under the definition of Espionage.

Sid being investigated and being found guilty are two very different things.
With the news cycle as it is today I find it prudent to not believe or disbelieve anything for at least forty eight hours after the story first breaks.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:17:41

Cid_Yama wrote:That is absolute bullshit


Don't get so wee-wee'd up, Cid. Its absolutely true.

CNN is reporting the Mueller probe is handing in their implements of torture next week and submitting a final report to the DOJ.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:21:27

VT, yeah right. The details are too specific. And we know Flynn and Kushner were attempting this transfer before Flynn resigned. The Administration continued to pursue it after Flynn left. They already pursued getting congressional approval and met resistance, so tried to do it covertly.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:21:51

vtsnowedin wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Once fissionable materials exist in quantity in Saudi Arabia, there is a short path to nuclear war in the ME, and a high likelihood of it happening relatively soon.
.
A path being short does not lead to people taking it. Especially if the path leads to the door to Hades.
I think the Saudis want nuclear power to run their air conditioners while saving exportable oil and gas they are using now. One thing they have going for them is that there is plenty of space in the "empty quarter to store the waste from the nuke plant or plants.


Look, you are applying Western and Christian behaviors and attitudes to Islam. 15 of the 19 terrorist assholes on 9/11/2001 were Saudi Arabians who practiced Wahhabism (i.e. fundamentalist Islam). Just because YOU wouldn't blow the world up does not mean that THEY would not. As a matter of fact, I believe that they WOULD, just as soon as they gain the means to do so. Nor would they consider it crazy or an undesirable thing to do. For them it would be a necessary, joyful act, for which they would be rewarded in the afterlife.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:28:03

Oh, my God. I'm agreeing with something KJ said (although not Islam in general but Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia for sure.) We would be looking at WWIII starting in the Middle East.

Surely you can see this.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:36:40

KaiserJeep wrote:Look, you are applying Western and Christian behaviors and attitudes to Islam. 15 of the 19 terrorist assholes on 9/11/2001 were Saudi Arabians who practiced Wahhabism (i.e. fundamentalist Islam). Just because YOU wouldn't blow the world up does not mean that THEY would not. As a matter of fact, I believe that they WOULD, just as soon as they gain the means to do so. Nor would they consider it crazy or an undesirable thing to do. For them it would be a necessary, joyful act, for which they would be rewarded in the afterlife.


Certainly the Shia in Iran feel that way. They want to world in fire so the 12th Imam can come out of the well where he has been hiding for 1500 years from the assassins sent by the evil Sunni Muslims.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 20 Feb 2019, 15:49:55

Which is why the US should not have pulled out of the Iran deal. (Thank God Europe knew better.)

All of the US intelligence agencies at the recent hearing told Congress that Iran was complying with the deal.

It's like the Administration is trying to instigate Armageddon. (It would allow Trump to remain in the Presidency indefinitely down in the bunker as the world burns.)

You know he is out for himself. He could care less about what happens to you as long as he and his family survive. The man is a sociopath.
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