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THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby kublikhan » Tue 10 Sep 2024, 17:33:51

theluckycountry wrote:Why do we even need wind power and mobile ipads? Why don't we just run everything on truly renewable ethanol? It's burning only produces co2 and water, no pollution! It's a no-brainer. I'm sure kub has better papers to tell the truth of the matter, all I can come up with is conspiracy junk like this from the National Academy of Sciences. What we need is Blurb from Ethanol corporations to set us straight.
Oh thanks for reminding me! Another favorite of Lucky: Strawmans! Never mind we were talking about offshore wind. Or that I was never a proponent of corn ethanol. It's easy to attack so...GO STRAWMAN!

kublikhan wrote:Ethanol is used as a fuel even though is provides little net energy.


kublikhan wrote:Early EROEI of ethanol was pretty low. Anywhere from a small profit to a small negative depending on whose numbers you believe. Yet because of the monetary incentives in place it continued to be produced in large quantities.


kublikhan wrote:Petrols can be converted to run on ethanol. But ultimately petrol and diesel engines are both trapped by the fossil monopoly. There is not enough fryer grease in the world to run our diesel engines on nor enough ethanol to run petrol engines on.


kublikhan wrote:Corn ethanol [is] barely energy positive and driven mainly by mandates and subsidies given to the US corn industry.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 10 Sep 2024, 18:26:38

theluckycountry wrote:Why has this thread gone so quiet of late?

Because when a neonazi shows up and doesn't even know what peak oil is, everyone is aghast that we somehow attracted both these characteristics in one poster?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 10 Sep 2024, 18:29:21

theluckycountry wrote:And for that matter
Where the Hell is my Flying Car!
I have been waiting 40 years for one, come on Elon, get it together.

Elon you might get it from sooner or later. But your countrymen that can't build a ferris wheel? Not a chance.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 14 Sep 2024, 17:39:48

Not offshore, but close

Queensland wind farm delay raises red flags with green groups
Feb 9, 2024-- The decision to further delay environmental approvals for a major wind farm proposed for Queensland’s Tablelands region has raised red flags for green groups, who say this is the third time the federal government has pushed out the deadline for a decision on the project, leaving the community and industry in limbo.

Delay, it's the worst form of rejection.

Moratorium on renewable energy developments
A petition delivered to the QLD government
18/June/2024-- Queensland residents draws to the attention of the House there are approximately 4,000 wind turbines planned along the Great Dividing Range. With over 3,736 kms of haulage roads causing massive land fragmentation, critical habitats for koalas, greater gliders, red goshawk... are being bulldozed. The destruction of vital habitats for endangered species is unacceptable in the pursuit of renewable energy targets.

Your petitioners, therefore, request the House to cease processing renewable energy development assessments and call for a moratorium until a comprehensive review with proper community consultation is undertaken.


Sep 15, 2024
Queensland LNP to ditch state renewable targets, may nix wind projects altogether

Queensland’s major parties are diverging on energy policy ahead of the October election, with opposition leader David Crisafulli rejecting the state’s renewable energy targets. The state opposition may also rule out the construction of new wind power, despite a number of gigawatt-scale wind projects planned for the state, particularly in the north.

The new policy position was outlined in front of a 1,000-head community meeting this week and means that the state Liberal National Party will support a 2050 net zero emissions target, but not the legislated renewable energy targets of 50% by 2030, 70% by 2032 and 80% by 2035.


BTW, the opposition party is a shoe-in for the next election.

So push the delusions off into the far future, a quarter of a century away. That's a lifetime in political terms. Good on the QLD government for siding with reality! Why burn mountains of coal in china to build all these units, and the cement (mountains of cement), then burn millions of gallons of Diesel in earth-moving and transport for a facility with a lifespan of 15 to 20 years. Just use existing coal fired plants, you'll still have to run the coal plants anyway, Wind isn't 24/7 reliable.

We're seeing this all across the globe, a concerted pushback against kubs miracle Green energy monstrosities. And the transition hardly lasted a decade either! Just like the EV, A tiny fraction of the grid's power transitioned, annnnd it's over. Yes Yes, I know, it's not OVER over yet, but anyone with half a brain can see where all this cutting back and cancelling of projects is leading. The public and industry have had a good now, and indeed, the Emperor has no clothes.

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https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland- ... vironment/
https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work- ... ls?id=4105
https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland- ... ltogether/
The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 21 Sep 2024, 11:26:47

theluckycountry wrote:Not offshore, but close

Queensland wind farm delay raises red flags with green groups
Feb 9, 2024-- The decision to further delay environmental approvals for a major wind farm proposed for Queensland’s Tablelands region has raised red flags for green groups, who say this is the third time the federal government has pushed out the deadline for a decision on the project, leaving the community and industry in limbo.

Delay, it's the worst form of rejection.

Moratorium on renewable energy developments
A petition delivered to the QLD government
18/June/2024-- Queensland residents draws to the attention of the House there are approximately 4,000 wind turbines planned along the Great Dividing Range. With over 3,736 kms of haulage roads causing massive land fragmentation, critical habitats for koalas, greater gliders, red goshawk... are being bulldozed. The destruction of vital habitats for endangered species is unacceptable in the pursuit of renewable energy targets.

Your petitioners, therefore, request the House to cease processing renewable energy development assessments and call for a moratorium until a comprehensive review with proper community consultation is undertaken.


Yes indeed, delay is what brought the USA nuclear expansion to its knees in the 1975-85 period when they more or less gave up on starting new projects. There have only been about four new build projects since 1985, the rest were long delayed projects that eventually reached completion billions of dollars over budget from needless delays.

The sad thing is the anti-human wing of the environmental movement opposes all technology. They will say to your face they want green energy, but as soon as they leave earshot they plan how to stifle every project no matter how well it fits in the green classification.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 21 Sep 2024, 15:11:57

Tanada wrote:
The sad thing is the anti-human wing of the environmental movement opposes all technology. They will say to your face they want green energy, but as soon as they leave earshot they plan how to stifle every project no matter how well it fits in the green classification.


And the irony of it (to have a grumpy old man moment) is that they have huge carbon footprints themselves. It's always the middleclass that are protesting, too much time on their hands. Same with Vegans! You don't find Vegans in trailer parks, they can't afford the lifestyle.

The Greenies want to the world to change but if they knew the real cost of their demands they'd never open their mouths again. I knew a Greenie who spent $200,000 insulating his trendy weatherboard home and installing double glazed windows. A year later he sold it and moved on, so much for living a low carbon lifestyle. The first thing the new owners did was install an airconditioner the size of a small car. They didn't want just lower temperatures in Summer, they wanted Perfect Temperatures. And I know how they feel, 22-C is perfect for me.
The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 27 Sep 2024, 17:23:27

Jersey Shore Wind Power Project Stalls After Having A "Hard Time" Finding Someone To Manufacture Turbine Blades

This is an interesting story to unpack, lots of spin.
There has been tons of controversy about wind farm projects on the Jersey shore, with residents in beaches like Brigantine against the initiatives, while others argue for implementing the clean energy. Turns out it may be a moot point: one project is having "a hard time finding someone to manufacture blades for its turbines", local radio station NJ 101.5 reported this week.

The New Jersey Board of Public Utilities has granted Leading Light Wind a pause on its offshore wind project until Dec. 20, as the developers struggle to secure necessary turbine components, the report says. The project, led by Chicago's Invenergy and New York-based energyRE, is planned for 40 miles off Long Beach Island and includes up to 100 turbines, expected to power 1 million homes.

Approved in January, the project faced a setback when GE Vernova, one of the three main turbine manufacturers, decided not to provide the turbines initially planned for use. Another option, Vestas, was ruled out, and the only remaining manufacturer, Siemens Gamesa, raised its prices substantially in June. Invenergy said in a statement: “The stay enables continued discussions with the BPU and supply chain partners regarding the industry-wide market shifts. We will continue to advance project development activities during this time.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/jerse ... anufacture

the industry-wide market shifts That's the key phrase in the article.

The blades are just fiberglass, Lo-tech really. I suspect the reality is that the high prices of the turbines and installation are what's really crippling this project, the turbine blade story just a convenient cover. No one was thinking ahead when these were being rolled out, "Oh sure they cost a lot upfront, then it's free energy till underverse come." But then the failures mounted and the true lifespan of these systems became obvious. End of Transition!
The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 27 Sep 2024, 18:11:42

A good quality, modern wind turbine will generally last for 20 years, although this can be extended to 25 years or longer depending on environmental factors and the correct maintenance procedures being followed.
https://www.twi-global.com/technical-kn ... bines-last
Or so says TWI, a corp selling services into the industry. It could be accurate, generally...

Wind turbines are ageing – what happens next?

With an average lifespan of 25 years, a high proportion of wind turbines across the world are approaching retirement. What happens to their components after they are decommissioned?

...The world’s first windfarm was erected in New Hampshire, US, in 1980 and was 20 turbines strong. It was followed by the first offshore windfarm in Vindeby, Denmark, in 1991, along with the first onshore windfarm in Cornwall, UK, also in 1991.

Since then, wind turbines have been erected across the world, heralded as a crucial part of the solution to the green transition. GlobalData estimates that there are currently over 329,000 active turbines worldwide, with almost 200,000 more in the pipeline. Decommissioning a wind turbine is not a straightforward process. The turbine must be disconnected from the grid, which requires permits and approvals from the relevant authorities and stakeholders. After this, the turbine must be removed from its site.

“Once the turbine is decommissioned, cranes and other equipment are used for the removal of the systems,” says Singh. “Some project infrastructure, like overhead lines, underground lines and substations, may be reused. Turbines are dismantled and the parts are removed. The blades, nacelle, or housing for components related to the generation of electricity and the tower are all fully removed from the site. Cables that are part of the collection system, as well as transformers, are also removed.

“Turbine foundations are removed so that land can be returned to an agricultural use. The majority of the turbine components, like concrete and metals, make their way to recycling plants, but many components like blades are disposed of at landfills.”
https://www.power-technology.com/featur ... t/?cf-view

Turbine foundations are removed so that land can be returned to an agricultural use? Well I guess the stresses imposed on them over the decades would weaken the concrete. but I cant see them demolishing hundreds of thousands of those. They will just be left behind like all the other shit lol. Like the spent reactor fuel is left behind when those plants are decommissioned, too expensive to do anything else. But have you ever seen how much steel and concrete goes into one of these bases?

Blue Creek Wind Farm in Ohio- The construction of 15 to 20-foot-deep concrete foundations to support all of the 328-foot-high towers with 2-MW turbines required 30,000 tons of cement. On average, each of these below-ground support systems used 60 truckloads of concrete (750 yd3),
https://www.windpowerengineering.com/ta ... undations/

I've watched reinforced concrete demolition, it takes forever and is very energy intensive. Huge machines to smash it up and then cut the steel bar so little chunks can be transported away. They do it for old hi-rise buildings, after they collapse them, but only because they are rebuilding on the site and it's economically viable. No one was thinking ahead with these Giant wind machines...

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Last edited by theluckycountry on Fri 27 Sep 2024, 18:27:30, edited 1 time in total.
The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
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Re: THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 27 Sep 2024, 18:26:37

I also watched a coal fired power station in Brisbane get progressively demolished once, it was on one of my regular Sunday cycling routes. It had sat there abandoned for decades! Why demolish it? It was right on the river in the inner city (coal transport from up river in the old days) and they wanted to build a tennis complex and apartments on the site. They didn't do it before because it was full of asbestos and that's expensive to remove.

That's how our world works, if there is $$$ in it, it gets done, otherwise it's abandoned. It's why Wind and solar are collapsing, no money in it anymore. For a few decades they were a novelty but once they went all in (like Germany) it became apparent there was no profit. Up till now there was because Stupid Governments were backing it but even they see the writing on the wall. They start looking for competitive prices and industry tells them to fuckoff and industry moves onto the next new thing they can wheedle a profit out of. This is the point at which the average techno-fanboi starts scratching their heads. Why are they stopping? The fanboi never thinks of practical reality, of $$$. All they see is a Startrek future ahead of us :roll:


Abandoned and left to rott

Image

During one of the Brisbane floods, 1974 probably. River on the left of picture.

Image

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The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
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