[Doly]

Your comment contains within it speciesism, a horrible human idea that is part of how we got to where we are, thinking we are the species that matter above all others.

Well, I'm not only terribly humanist, I'm also terribly in favour of putting me and my family over everyone else, my home above everybody else's homes, my town above everyone else's, and even (shock! horror!) my favorite Internet sites above the rest of the Internet.

[JuanP]

Your comment contains within it speciesism, a horrible human idea that is part of how we got to where we are, thinking we are the species that matter above all others.

Well, I'm not only terribly humanist, I'm also terribly in favour of putting me and my family over everyone else, my home above everybody else's homes, my town above everyone else's, and even (shock! horror!) my favorite Internet sites above the rest of the Internet.

I find your honesty about your very human flaws refreshing.

[AdamB]

LONDON — The devastating effects of climate change on Earth could become so overwhelming that they undermine humanity’s capacity to tackle climate change’s root causes, researchers warned Wednesday.

Beware a climate ‘doom loop,’ where crisis is harder to solve, report says

[theluckycountry]

Well, I'm not only terribly humanist, I'm also terribly in favour of putting me and my family over everyone else, my home above everybody else's homes, my town above everyone else's, and even (shock! horror!) my favorite Internet sites above the rest of the Internet.

Viewing profile - Doly Last visited: Wed 14 Sep 2022,
Website: http://www.transitionbrightonandhove.org.uk (defunct)

Well either Doly has gone on extended holiday or she's transcended, like 99.8% of the other forum posters.
It's amazing how many joined in 2004/2005, the 'peak' of the peak oil awareness so to speak. And then, like the 70's grassroots movement, all went off to do other things. I hope a lot of them took away the key message though, and made their lives more resilient to the changes we've seen over the past two decades.

I sometimes wonder what was going through the minds of the people back in 2004 who were buying homes and then became 'home-less' a decade later. Was it a contingency they allowed for? Or did it simply hit them like a ton of bricks? The latter in most all cases I would say. Based on the people I have known over the years who lost it all.

[theluckycountry]

India to get heat waves this year after hottest February on record

MUMBAI/NEW DELHI, Feb 28 (Reuters) - India is likely to experience heat waves between March and May, especially in the key wheat producing central and northern states... A heat wave curtailed India's wheat production in 2022 and forced the world's second largest producer to ban exports

Food scarcity, hunger.

Higher temperatures could also lift power consumption above supplies during the summer season.

Rolling blackouts, heat deaths.

The government directed health departments across the country to implement "heat-related health action plans".

Government to the rescue. I assume these plans involve moving their families to the cooler mountain retreats for the summer and ensuring that their homes and offices in the cities have abundant reserve diesel fuel for their backup generators.

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/ind ... 023-02-28/

[Simon_R]

@theluckycountry
You raise a really good point, I still visit this site time to time, but not as frequently as before, and I still stick to peak oil from conventional resevoirs (I learnt )
More importantly any prepping done should allow you to survive economic crises (sp?) I learnt that lesson in 2008, and we are still applying this now

[theluckycountry]

@Simon_R
The vast majority of active posters here are of the cornucopian stripe. They embrace all new technological promises without question, and just as quickly ignore them when they fail, then they move on to the next solution.

Cornucopian: label given to individuals who assert that the environmental problems faced by society either do not exist or can be solved by technology or the free market. Cornucopians hold an anthropocentric view of the environment and reject the ideas that population-growth projections are problematic and that Earth has finite resources and carrying capacity

[yellowcanoe]

The vast majority of active posters here are of the cornucopian stripe. They embrace all new technological promises without question, and just as quickly ignore them when they fail, then they move on to the next solution.

A more specific term for that is technocopian. I am not sure I would agree that the majority of posters here are technocopians. I certainly don't believe I am one and that is despite the fact that I am trained as an engineer. Indeed, I feel that my experience with engineering and science is what leads me to believe that technology cannot solve our problems.

[AdamB]

@Simon_R
The vast majority of active posters here are of the cornucopian stripe.

Yes... peak oilers are cornocopians. Gee....I wonder what half brained provincial would make that mistake.

Oh I know! The kind that is still pissed that peak oilers got it wrong, not only didn't oil end but worse it didn't take the world with it, so now hysterical PM collecting McDoomsters can only whine and pretend everyone is cornocopian. While desperately hoping that they don't end before the world does so they can be right for just that one time, in their otherwise insignificant and provincial lives.

[theluckycountry]

A more specific term for that is technocopian. I am not sure I would agree that the majority of posters here are technocopians. I certainly don't believe I am one and that is despite the fact that I am trained as an engineer. Indeed, I feel that my experience with engineering and science is what leads me to believe that technology cannot solve our problems.

In a very real sense, technology has caused all our immediate problems. The history of the human race was quite benign up until a couple of hundred years ago. Just imagine what America would look like today with out the benefits of firearms and the industrial age. Imagine how many buffalo would be roaming. Without the aid of the sailing ship it would still be pristine. Modern technology creates more problems than it solves I am afraid.

[Plantagenet]

In a very real sense, technology has caused all our immediate problems.

In a very real sense technology has created all human progress.

The history of the human race was quite benign up until a couple of hundred years ago.

Thats not true at all. Pre-modern humans caused hundreds of other species to go extinct as they expanded around the planet and they did this with stone-age technology. Stone age people also used fire extensively in places like Australia to "burn off" vegetation over huge areas. THEN the development of agriculture in China almost immediately led to increases in global methane levels, as rice agriculture spread across China and the rest of SE Asia ca. 5-6 thousand years ago. More recently, AS humans processed into the bronze age and then the iron age the great empires of Greece, Rome, China, Iran, India, etc. humans deforested whole regions of Europe, China, and the middle east. This process has continued and spread to every part of the world since the middle ages.



Ecological damage caused by humans is definitely NOT a new development that occurred only within the last few hundred years....modifying the environment is something humans have done for thousands of years. however the scope and rate of human ecological damage definitely is much much greater now thanks to the industrial revolution and our recent use of fossil fuels.

Cheers!

[theluckycountry]

however the scope and rate of human ecological damage definitely is much much greater now thanks to the industrial revolution and our recent use of fossil fuels.

Cheers!

Thank you, that's my point entirely. Whatever damage human settlements caused in past millennia was quickly restored by natural processes, as for species extinction in times past, that went on regardless of human intervention, a few hundred here or there is nothing.

The belief that since technology has made our lives more comfortable, more 'fun' and extended them by a few decades justifies destroying the earth's ecosphere is the height of narcissism. You and I will both be dead soon either way, but we will take with us the Earth's other species.

Humanity has wiped out 60% of mammals, birds, fish and reptiles since 1970, leading the world’s foremost experts to warn that the annihilation of wildlife is now an emergency that threatens civilisation.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... port-finds


Radical overhaul needed to halt Earth’s sixth great extinction event



https://theconversation.com/radical-ove ... vent-68221

Yes I like my modern lifestyle too, but I don't delude myself as to the cost involved. We are an Asteroid strike on the scale of chicxulub

[Plantagenet]

Whatever damage human settlements caused in past millennia was quickly restored by natural processes

That just isn't true.

Let's look at one clear example.

I posted for you a pic that showed that Europe was almost completely deforested by the middle ages.

I hate to break it to you, but Europe remains deforested. It was never "restored" by natural processes as you claim.

The facts are clear....Humans completely altered the natural environment over almost the entire continent of Europe before fossil fuels were even in use.....you can't just pretend it didn't happen.

And the same kind of environmental destruction happened to forests and ecosystems in India, China, and other areas. Damage to natural ecosystems was very great during past millennia all around the planet.

AND Acknowledging the fact that humans have been modifying and destroying natural environments and driving animals into extinction for millennia doesn't change the fact that the pace of this destruction has greatly increased since the industrial revolution.



Cheers!

[Newfie]

Ibon would frequently go on about how quick the environment would recover once you stopped abusing it, which astounded me. He would cite his place in Panama as an example. He also talked about how as a young man he took long treks into the Canadian back country.

My personal observations have been very different. I know of delicate lands where a single set of tracks will last for decades. The American forest, east if Mississippi was already heavily shaped by human intervention before Europeans arrived. Then there are the studies of how the reintroduction of wolves changed the courses of rivers among other events.

Yet I have also had bitter arguments with highly intelligent folks who contend that CC is BS simply because humans are to insignificant to effect Earths systems. I made no progress.

The scope and effect of our habitation is missing in all primary and secondary education.

[Plantagenet]

I have to say I miss Ibon. I hope he's doing OK down there in Panama.

--------------

I noticed the same kind of thing when I used to live in Berkeley, California. People tend to think the current environment they see around them is "natural" when its not.

Yes, the San Francisco Bay is still very beautiful, but the original natural environment of the San Francisco Bay has been almost totally destroyed. San Francisco Bay used to be one of the greatest centers of bird life anywhere, with extensive salt marshes and wetlands. Today the bay is significant smaller then it used be as the salt marshes and mud flats have been largely destroyed as the cities around the Bay covered them with debris and then built on top of them and expanded out into the Bay, and as a result bird life and marine life has been decimated as their habitat was destroyed.


Urban development around San Francisco Bay.

[theluckycountry]

Biden just promised to send enough US natural gas to Europe to replace all the Russian natural gas they aren't going to buy anymore.

Why do you attribute these decisions to him? He's a senile old pervert and you don't trust these sort of decisions to people like that. It's probably the English that are pulling the strings, ever since the European banks founded the Federal Reserve system they have been manipulating American policy in their favor. It's why the richest nation on earth was gutted in a mere 100 years.

[Plantagenet]

Biden just promised to send enough US natural gas to Europe to replace all the Russian natural gas they aren't going to buy anymore.

Why do you attribute these decisions to him?

Because Joe Biden is the president. He is ultimately responsible for all the policies that are put in place during his administration. Thats the way the US Government is set up.


Joe Biden is the president. He is ultimately responsible for all the policies that are put in place during his administration. Thats the way the US Government is set up.

Joe Biden..... a senile old pervert and you don't trust these sort of decisions to people like that. It's probably the English that are pulling the strings

Putting the blame on "perfidious albion" is a centuries-old conspiracy theory. You are welcome to push outdated conspiracy theories that blame the English if you like but I'm not interested in that kind of nonsense. The real world is much more interesting then conspiracy theories.

Cheers!

[theluckycountry]

Why do you attribute these decisions to him?

Because Joe Biden is the president. He is ultimately responsible for all the policies that are put in place during his administration. Thats the way the US Government is set up.

Yes that's the way it's set up alright, but with a slight nuance, He is ultimately the stooge for all the policies that are put in place during his administration. Blaming him is like blaming someone in a coma for not paying their utilities bills.

He is the scapegoat those in power want you to focus on so that you can have the illusion of power through your next vote. The illusion of democracy was setup after the French Revolution, to prevent further such events and keep the men behind the curtain from being held responsible for their actions. I'm not speaking to you, I know you are old and completely believe in the "democratic" system. I am speaking to those people who wonder why nothing of consequence ever changes, no matter which political party is in power.

"Let's make America great again" was famously used in Ronald Reagan's 1980 presidential campaign. At the time the United States was suffering from a worsening economy at home marked by stagflation.

Same ol same ol

[theluckycountry]

Your comment contains within it speciesism, a horrible human idea that is part of how we got to where we are, thinking we are the species that matter above all others.

Well, I'm not only terribly humanist, I'm also terribly in favour of putting me and my family over everyone else, my home above everybody else's homes, my town above everyone else's, and even (shock! horror!) my favorite Internet sites above the rest of the Internet.

I find your honesty about your very human flaws refreshing.

They are not human flaws, they are simply human traits, like the traits of rabbits, that breed uncontrollably and have no concern about digging holes all over the country-side. Why do you think humans should be any different is the amazing part? We are the apex predator on the planet, and like every other species we compete to perpetuate our genes. That's just life on earth. If we upset the balance of the ecosystem we will die back, just like every other species.

[yellowcanoe]

Yes, the San Francisco Bay is still very beautiful, but the original natural environment of the San Francisco Bay has been almost totally destroyed. San Francisco Bay used to be one of the greatest centers of bird life anywhere, with extensive salt marshes and wetlands. Today the bay is significant smaller then it used be as the salt marshes and mud flats have been largely destroyed as the cities around the Bay covered them with debris and then built on top of them and expanded out into the Bay, and as a result bird life and marine life has been decimated as their habitat was destroyed.

Unfortunately if we don't keep growing our population something terrible will happen. What, I don't know but experts and politicians seem to be fairly united in telling us that stabilizing or shrinking our population isn't an option -- the only way forward is to keep increasing our population! We are going to have to continue building over wetlands and agricultural land.