Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 24 Jan 2023, 19:59:49

vtsnowedin wrote:Oh gee, American corporations coming in and developing resources and hiring local people with good paying jobs and producing salable products for domestic use and export while paying taxes to the government.
The horrors!
Much better to have a gang of oligarchs take over and oppress the masses while fitting out their yachts with stolen profits.


Westerners have largely forgotten the huge drop in the standard of living in Russia after the fall of Communism. Political freedom was absent from Russia during Communist rule but people did have the assurance of a job and pension when they retired. The Russian people were put through a shock treatment that would be unimaginable to us - too much change in too short of a time. The support for an autocratic leader such as Putin doesn't surprise me at all.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 24 Jan 2023, 20:41:27

yellowcanoe wrote: Political freedom was absent from Russia during Communist rule but people did have the assurance of a job and pension when they retired.


I'm wondering how north koreans feel about their plight.

You don't have it that bad, you ain't got no freedom, but at least you got a job shovelings cow poop and a promise of a daily bowl of gruel for retirement.
mousepad
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 886
Joined: Thu 26 Sep 2019, 09:07:56

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 24 Jan 2023, 20:49:54

mousepad wrote:
yellowcanoe wrote: Political freedom was absent from Russia during Communist rule but people did have the assurance of a job and pension when they retired.


I'm wondering how north koreans feel about their plight.

You don't have it that bad, you ain't got no freedom, but at least you got a job shovelings cow poop and a promise of a daily bowl of gruel for retirement.


Wouldn't this really be a case of, "gee, if it's so great there with that pension and a job, when are you emigrating?". I have a job and a pension in the US, what's wrong with having some (semi) political freedom too and just staying here?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9525
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 24 Jan 2023, 21:55:19

mousepad wrote:
yellowcanoe wrote: Political freedom was absent from Russia during Communist rule but people did have the assurance of a job and pension when they retired.


I'm wondering how north koreans feel about their plight.

You don't have it that bad, you ain't got no freedom, but at least you got a job shovelings cow poop and a promise of a daily bowl of gruel for retirement.


I believe that Russians had a higher standard of living under Communism than North Koreans do now.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 24 Jan 2023, 22:35:53

yellowcanoe wrote:I believe that Russians had a higher standard of living under Communism than North Koreans do now.

Think Russia post Putin's war will still be higher?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9525
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Wed 25 Jan 2023, 00:53:22

AdamB wrote:
yellowcanoe wrote:I believe that Russians had a higher standard of living under Communism than North Koreans do now.

Think Russia post Putin's war will still be higher?


It's rather sad that Russians will continue to have a low standard of living despite living in a country that is blessed with a lot of natural resources. The war with Ukraine can only push living standards further down.

The democratic and capitalist countries we live in provide most of us with a higher standard of living than any communist country would have been able to provide. The point I was trying to make is that the collapse of the Soviet Union was accompanied by a sharp reduction in the standard of loving for a lot of people in Russia. If Russia had been able to stick with building a democracy, an impartial justice system providing rule of law, a free media and a properly regulated capitalist system the Russian people would have a pretty good standard of living by now and memories of the difficult times immediately after the fall of communism would be fading away. Alas, before enough time had past for all these things to happen, Putin managed to get power, with the result that the country does not have rule of law, opposition politicians are killed or imprisoned, the media is controlled and much of the economy is controlled by wealthy oligarchs.

Turning what had been an authoritarian state into a democracy is an inherently difficult thing to do. We had success in doing it to Germany and Japan after WW2. In other cases since WW2, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, the process did not work.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 25 Jan 2023, 09:38:04

Comparing standard of living is often an apples to oranges math problem. GDP or GDP per capita doesn't tell the story if a lot of natural resources are being extracted but the profits are in the hands of a few leaving the majority in poverty. North Korea is even worse having few resources to exploit and a dictatorship holding all the money. North Korea's PPGDP is only $1700 a year and if that were distributed evenly (which it isn't) would come to $140 a month per person.
Compare to the USA median monthly wage of $5783 Briton's 3223,Ukraine's $775 and Russia's $480.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 25 Jan 2023, 09:47:38

yellowcanoe wrote:Turning what had been an authoritarian state into a democracy is an inherently difficult thing to do. We had success in doing it to Germany and Japan after WW2. In other cases since WW2, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, the process did not work.


Well, in Germany and Japan we crushed them down to their core, and then led by example and nourished otherwise western european thoughts on society and governance, and they grew into reasonable functioning countries. In Iraq and Afghanistan we knocked off the current despots and religious tyrants and then attempted to fight the real battle against millennia of cultural and religious belief and indoctrination. As we had no desire to run the country in the model of the way the Romans did it (spend lives and treasure running the joint forever or until we didn't have the ability to project power any longer), when we handed them back to folks we thought we had westernized, they imploded back into what they may always be. I wonder how long the lessons learned in those two places will be remembered, the next time America thinks it is a good idea to go nation building?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9525
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 22 Sep 2024, 19:28:47

New Report: Busy Summer for Arctic Shipping on Russia’s Northern Sea Route



The first two months of the 2024 summer and fall navigation season on Russia’s main Arctic shipping lane have already seen 30 transit voyages carrying around 1.3 million tons of cargo, a new report by Norway’s Center for High North Logistics (CHNL) details.

The analysis of shipping traffic highlights that the Russia-China connection for Arctic development and shipping continues to dominate, with 98 percent of cargo flowing between ports of the two countries.

The cargo flow from Russia to China is dominated by crude oil and bulk items like coal and iron ore.
900,000 tons of crude oil

Thus far nine oil tankers have traveled from the Baltic port of Primorsk, Murmansk and the Prirazlomnaya oil platform to China with around 900,000 tons of crude oil.

Five bulk carriers delivered approximately 416,000 tons, a mix of coal, iron ore and mineral fertilizers. Vessels again originated in the Baltic Sea and Murmansk.

The opposite direction has seen less traffic with bulk vessels and tankers vessels frequently returning in ballast.

But container shipping represents an exception to this with vessels carrying cargo in similar measures in both directions.

Four Chinese or Hong Kong-based box ships carried around 17,000 tons of containerized cargo from China to the Russian port of Arkhangelsk, with two making the return voyage loaded with 11,000 tons.

Those figures look set to grow substantially during the coming two months as several larger container ships have entered the route in recent days, including the first-ever Panamax, Flying Fish 1, passing through the Arctic.
Concentrated on Russia and China

While transit shipping experiences significant seasonal variability, it by and large remains highly concentrated on Russian ports. The experts at CHNL note that during the first two months of this summer’s shipping season, no international transits have been recorded.

All vessels either originated or arrived in a Russian port. During previous summers, especially prior to the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the route saw some international traffic connecting port pairs outside of Russia.

At the current rate, and taking into account that September is the busiest month, the CHNL suggests that 2024 transit traffic will surpass last year’s record of 2.1 million tons.
Near Murmansk

Transit traffic routinely continues into November and possibly longer depending on vessel ice-classification and ice conditions. However, in some years conditions can rapidly deteriorate trapping vessels in quickly forming sea ice requiring rescue by Russia’s icebreaking fleet.

Additional volume may come from Russia’s emerging LNG shadow fleet. Several cargo loads of LNG from the sanctioned Arctic LNG 2 project have initially been transported in a westerly direction to a holding point near Murmansk.

They may eventually be transshipped and flow in an easterly direction to Asia adding to the transit traffic contingent. Some changes to the Northern Sea Route traffic pattern may also emerge next summer as an EU-wide transshipment ban on Russian LNG comes into effect in March 2025.

NSR News Link
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17078
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 22 Sep 2024, 19:45:28

Record-size Container Ship Sets Course for Arctic

Norwegian waters are increasingly turning into a gateway for Arctic shipping. A Panamax containership, Flying Fish 1, is set to become the first-ever to traverse Russia’s Northern Sea Route.

The vessel is currently traveling north through Norway’s coastal waters and passed near Bodø in Northern Norway over the weekend.

Flying Fish 1 surpasses all previous Arctic container ships in capacity by nearly 50 percent. A container ship of that size is a rare sight in North Norwegian waters, which are traditionally visited by much smaller feeder vessels.

With a length of 294 meters across a width of 32 meters the vessel is designed to carry nearly 5,000 containers.

The vessel received a permit for Russia's Arctic route earlier this year. Routing information suggests it will be connecting St. Petersburg, from where it departed on September 3, with the Chinese city of Qingdao.

It is expected to arrive in the port in northeastern China around September 26, about 10 days faster than using the traditional route via the Suez Canal.
Container traffic continues to grow

While routine container traffic via the Arctic remains decades into the future, ad hoc and seasonal service have sprung up over the past few years.

Hong Kong-based NewNew Shipping Line completed seven container voyages via the Arctic last summer and has already surpassed those figures this year with two months remaining in the ice-free season.

EZ Safetrans Logistics, the owner of Flying Fish 1, is the latest entrant in the space. With a low Ice 1 ice-class the vessel’s permit allows for navigation on the route until the middle of October given the vessel sufficient time to complete a return trip.

Flying Fish 1 may soon be joined by two other EZ Safetrans Panamax vessels, SFT Turkey and SFT Egypt, which also hold Arctic permits, pushing the number of total container ship voyages for the year to close to 20.

While that figure pales in comparison to major traditional routes like the Suez and Panama Canals, which see thousands of vessels each year, it is significant development just six years after Maersk, the Danish shipping giant, dispatched the first-ever container ship Venta Maersk, through the Arctic.

Other niche operators will likely follow in the years to come.
Dark vessels in the Barents Sea

This summer also saw a record-amount of Russian liquefied natural gas, both from unsanctioned Yamal LNG and the blocked Arctic LNG 2 project, pass through Norway’s waters.

The shipping lanes to the west of Norway’s coast are increasingly becoming the site of a cat and mouse game between the U.S. and Russia, with the former placing sanctions on Arctic projects and the latter aiming to circumvent them.

In early August several sanctioned LNG carriers spent several days circling to the north of Norway turning off their transponders in an effort to avoid detection by U.S. officials.

Similar practices in the oil sector have led to several accidents. One major collision between a shadow fleet oil tanker and another tanker occurred in the South China Sea on July 19, narrowly avoiding a major spill.

With the AIS transponder turned off the other tanker was unable to see the “dark vessel” on its monitors.

With similar “dark vessels” now operating in proximity of Norway en route to Russia the risk profile of shipping in the region has reached new levels.

News Link

With the restriction on water use in Panama due to the extended dry spell it seems likely to me that more Panamax vessels might turn north as the alternative. Taking either the Suez route or the long way around South America adds a great deal to journey distance and time both of which substantially increase shipping costs. China's investors in Panama would probably have been better off financing a excavation of a sea level canal instead of the third stage "New Panamax" locks they invested in. A sea level canal would not be dependent on rainfall to continue operations. With climate disruption making the weather unpredictable droughts are likely to keep popping up in Panama making their already massive investment fruitless.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17078
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 22 Sep 2024, 20:10:39

Tanada wrote:A sea level canal would not be dependent on rainfall to continue operations. With climate disruption making the weather unpredictable droughts are likely to keep popping up in Panama making their already massive investment fruitless.


Is a sea level canal feasible? First I have heard of it.
The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3115
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 28 Sep 2024, 21:51:40

theluckycountry wrote:
Tanada wrote:A sea level canal would not be dependent on rainfall to continue operations. With climate disruption making the weather unpredictable droughts are likely to keep popping up in Panama making their already massive investment fruitless.


Is a sea level canal feasible? First I have heard of it.


Sure, the original plan was for a sea level canal but it would have cost about four times as much because additional material would need to be removed in the mountain section where they made the "Calebra Cut". The mountains are jumbled layers of weak and strong material because they were formed when the South American and North American tectonic plates collided.

To create a stable channel they need to make a wide cut so the weak layers do not collapse into the channel. Even today because they made the channel as narrow as possible there are frequent landslides off the mountain slopes that they have to dredge out after every rainy season. If they had made the cut wide enough to make it sea level as originally intended the slope angle would be greatly reduced which limits the tendency to shed material into the channel.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17078
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 29 Sep 2024, 00:24:31

Tanada wrote:If they had made the cut wide enough to make it sea level as originally intended the slope angle would be greatly reduced which limits the tendency to shed material into the channel.


Yes I see. They were probably constrained by the necessity to dump all the spoil. I found an illuminating article on it, incredible achievement for it's day. I suppose they just wanted to get it up and running as fast as possible and see a return on the investment. Once it was completed there was no going back because that would have necessitated closing the canal for some time (lost revenue) If it had been built in the 1950's it no doubt would have gone the way you recommended.

For those interested

Culebra Cut

Culebra Cut was the “special wonder” of the canal. Here, men and machines labored to conquer the 8.75-mile stretch extending through the Continental Divide from Gamboa on the Chagres River at the north to Pedro Miguel on the south. The lowest point in the saddle between Gold Hill on the east and Contractors Hill on the west was at elevation 333.5 feet above sea level.

Holes were drilled, filled with explosives and detonated to loosen the rock and rock-hard clay. Steam shovels then excavated the spoil, placing it on railroad cars to be hauled to dump sites. Excavation equipment, in addition to the railroad itself, included steam shovels, unloaders, spreaders and track-shifters. Of this equipment, only the steam shovel had been known to the French, and then in a much less powerful form.

The Lidgerwood unloader, manufactured by the Lidgerwood Manufacturing Company of New York City, was another indispensable piece of equipment. Wooden flatcars with a rated canal capacity of 19 cubic yards hauled most of the spoil, pulled in long trains by full-sized, American built locomotives. Built with only one side, they had steel aprons bridging the spaces between cars. Dirt was piled high against one side. At the dump site, the unloader, a three-ton plow, was hitched to the last car by a long cable to a huge winch-like device mounted on a flatcar at the head of the train. Taking its power from the locomotive, the winch pulled the plow rapidly forward, unloading the whole twenty-car train in a single, 10-minute sweep. One of these machines once set an 8-hour record by unloading 18 trains, about 3 ½ miles of cars containing about 7,560 cubic yards of material. Engineers estimated that 20 of these unloaders operated by 120 laborers did the work of 5,666 men unloading by hand.

More than a hundred million cubic yards of spoil had to be hauled away from the excavation site and dumped. Part of this spoil was used to join a series of four small islands in Panama Bay (Naos, Perico, Culebra and Flamenco) to create a breakwater....

Spoil was also used to claim nearly 500 acres of Pacific Ocean to create the Balboa townsite and the Fort Amador military reservation. Millions of cubic yards of material also had to be hauled out to big waste dumps in the jungle. In the largest of these, Tabernilla, 17,000,000 cubic yards of material were deposited. Balboa was the biggest dumpsite. Other big dumps were Gatun Dam, and Miraflores...
https://pancanal.com/en/culebra-cut/
The 'peak oil' story is not over by any means. Fracking was a desperate and ruinous sort of pause, which has been used to crank up demand.
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3115
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 29 Sep 2024, 10:19:23

theluckycountry wrote:
Tanada wrote:If they had made the cut wide enough to make it sea level as originally intended the slope angle would be greatly reduced which limits the tendency to shed material into the channel.


Yes I see. They were probably constrained by the necessity to dump all the spoil. I found an illuminating article on it, incredible achievement for it's day.

American's being exceptional down through the ages....it is like...its in our DNA!!
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9525
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Previous

Return to Conservation & Efficiency

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest