[Pops]

Het Jato.

More light summer reading,
Paul Ehrlich: ‘Collapse of civilization is a near certainty within decades’

And further reflections on The Population Bomb

The Population Bomb Revisited
Paul R. Ehrlich* and Anne H. Ehrlich†
(2009)

Signs of potential collapse, environmental and political, seem to be growing. The pattern is classic – population grows to the limits of current technologies to support it, followed by technological innovation (e.g., long canals in Mesopotamia, green revolution in India, biofuels in Brazil and U.S.) accompanied by more population growth and environmental deterioration, while politicians and elites fail to recognize the basic situation and focus on expanding their own wealth and power.

[jato0072]

No worries regarding the old account. I can just start over using this current one.

Pops, I will checkout those doomer porn links.

[theluckycountry]

I got into collapse in 2005 and thankfully didn't act on a lot of the advice of the uber-doomers like James Kuntsler and John M Greer, though I loved their stuff and it was full of good concepts. Those guys and many like them are living straightened existences now, grubbing in the mud for vegetables and recycling used toilet rolls while the world has passed them by. They will be right, just probably not in my lifetime. I like the idea of owning and riding new motorcycles, of leaving the A/C unit on all day in mid summer. neither of which fits with their "Collapse now and avoid the rush" lifestyles.

[Newfie]

LOL,

We “collapsed” in 2016 when we retired to living on a boat or a cabin in Canada. Tough choices but someone has to do it!

We actually enjoy the powered down, own less lifestyle. Makes us feel quite rich. But we have spent the past year maintaining and upgrading our boat, taking advantage of the enforced “covid holiday” back in the states to do this work.

At the moment we are back in center city Philadelphia where we own a brownstone with 4 apartments, doing slave labor to maintain our “passive income.” Can not wait to get back outta here, freaking depressing.

Come November (I hope) we are back outta here once again as the adventure continues.

[Pops]

We too collapsed early. It was mainly a case of latter day Back To The Land wish fulfillment, but fear of Bushco/Haliburton oil wars and the certainty of a real estate apocalypse played a part. Some time after 9/11 we decided there were lean times ahead, so we fixed up our old house in California and bugged out for 40 acres in the Ozarks. An 'energy-constrained future"was late-coming to the list but wound up at the top.

We grubbed in the mud for a dozen years and had great fun but then the frackers came along and postponed the future for a decade, right around the time this thread started, actually. We sold the farm and have been itinerant house flippers for the last while.

Twenty years ago our kids were just out of school, starting to have kids of their own but I still felt a responsibility to have a bug-out location for them. Now their kids are about that same age and frankly, I don't feel quite the same responsibility as I did then.

I'm still a prepper, been so since before it was a thing. And I'll tell ya, it is hard being an itinerant prepper, LOL But the moving has been worthwhile, we've put pretty good money in the bank, have mostly newish stuff, no bills. We're in an old but surprisingly comfortable house that we're in the process of reviving. It will make us money if we move next year. It's small town Missouri, about the cheapest place to live in this country— kind of third world right here at home. We only have $100k into it, we may keep it even if we do move on.

So, long story longer, there are different ways to prepare. Most people's lifestyle, not to mention income, requires a commute, I work remotely (have since 1995 when I used dual dial-up!). Most people need that car for everything because they live in the 'burbs without a sidewalk for miles—we always live where we can walk or bike if we need to. Most people act as if food and water and electricity is heaven sent, we think about that stuff and try to have a backup, even if we are itinerant.

You don't need to be a Kazinsky
.

[gollum]

Choosing to collapse early always seemed just as foolish to me as having no plan at all for dealing with eventual collapse and the road there. I live life, travel when time and money allow, drive a decent vehicle etc. But I also store at least a years worth of food and fuel and do things like plant trees on my property. Moderation in all things.

[theluckycountry]

Moderation in all things.

I agree with all you say. I have never thought of 'conserving' anything, for the 'Planet's sake' either. That is such a pointless exercise, like putting a finger in a dike. 40 years ago I knew people who were recycling bottles and newpapers, thinking they were morally superior. All they were was stupid, playing a stupid game created by government to deflect responsibility away from corporations and onto the people buying the products. Years later this all became patently obvious, but a lot still sort their trash, like trained seals.

[theluckycountry]

Moderation in all things.

I agree with all you say. I have never thought of 'conserving' anything, for the 'Planet's sake' either. That is such a pointless exercise, like putting a finger in a dike. 40 years ago I knew people who were recycling bottles and newpapers, thinking they were morally superior. All they were was stupid, playing a stupid game created by government to deflect responsibility away from corporations and onto the people buying the products. Years later this all became patently obvious, but a lot still sort their trash, like trained seals.

95% of all our recyclables used to be shipped off to China, when China said they didn't want them any more they were simply tossed into the landfill, yet everyone still has two rubbish bins here, and still sort the waste?

[suxs]

I knew people who were recycling bottles and newpapers, thinking they were morally superior. All they were was stupid, playing a stupid game created by government to deflect responsibility away from corporations and onto the people buying the products. Years later this all became patently obvious, but a lot still sort their trash, like trained seals.

Save the "morally superior" lectures, hypocrite. Are you expecting applause and kudos for being a selfish and short-sighted tool?

[gollum]

I know plenty of idiots that drive hybrid cars and recycle cans but still fly all over the country and the world several times a year. The fact is there's nothing we can do as individuals that's going to impact the end game so we may as well enjoy life as it is now while preparing for what's coming. You're not going to save the Titanic but you ought to at least enjoy a nice dinner before after you've loaded your lifeboat.

[Newfie]

I knew people who were recycling bottles and newpapers, thinking they were morally superior. All they were was stupid, playing a stupid game created by government to deflect responsibility away from corporations and onto the people buying the products. Years later this all became patently obvious, but a lot still sort their trash, like trained seals.

Save the "morally superior" lectures, hypocrite. Are you expecting applause and kudos for being a selfish and short-sighted tool?

I did not read it that way.

My understanding was that our personal actions are very small compared to governmental actions.

People do some small thing and then think it will have a meaningful effect. That the government encourages this belief helps keep the pressure off the monied interests.

Instead we get the “green new deal” and the infrastructure bill which are hurtful towards controlling warming, in the name of fighting warming.

Most people are gery confused about climate change and what is really required to make a meaningfulndifference.

[jato0072]

I know plenty of idiots that drive hybrid cars and recycle cans but still fly all over the country and the world several times a year.

^ This ^

I have seen many "environmental" hypocrites, but never a true believer who lives what they preach. They have to be out there somewhere, but very rare. Yes, I am "selfish". Other then the huge taxes, I rarely give away my resources to strangers. If it is legal, I can afford it and I want to do it, I make it happen. I am just following my human programming. Shame away if you must, I can take it.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I know plenty of idiots that drive hybrid cars and recycle cans but still fly all over the country and the world several times a year.

^ This ^

I have seen many "environmental" hypocrites, but never a true believer who lives what they preach. They have to be out there somewhere, but very rare. Yes, I am "selfish". Other then the huge taxes, I rarely give away my resources to strangers. If it is legal, I can afford it and I want to do it, I make it happen. I am just following my human programming. Shame away if you must, I can take it.

I get the "frownie face" from friends of mine (a couple), for (for example) buying plastic forks in bulk. Like 1000 heavy duty forks (which don't break unless you're really careless) for maybe $35 on Amazon.

And this saves me washing 1000 forks, the water, the soap, processing that water and soap by some govt. mandated facility, and annoying my often sore wrist/hand joints. (Being single, I don't waste the resources to have a dishwasher).

And yet, between them, they drive nearly TEN times as much as I do, and they fly often and all over the world for vacations, whereas I never fly, and I live in a house which is less than half as big as theirs, and am far more careful re A/C and heating use, re living with slightly uncomfortable temps and dressing for the temp.

But somehow I'm the "bad guy", because I do one thing differently than they would. And they don't have 40 years + of painful inflammatory joint issues (which the doctor's can't diagnose, despite my having spent plenty to have them run tests) and resulting sleepless nights, etc. to compare to my primary reason for that decision.

At some point, more empathy, even for positions you might have an initial knee-jerk aversion to, might make sense. For everyone, including myself. But being human, it's apparently, generally, hard to admit that.

[Newfie]

The thing is almost no one in the general public really comprehends CC. I believe this is a general inability for humans to look back from a future distant point. It is just not something we, on average, are good at.

The crowd HERE are far more likely to have those abilities, which is probably why we are here.

Bloody bunch of Casandras we are. LOL