[mustang19]

Pretty sure mustang is the same troll gumming up the works over at PeakOilBarrel, posting there as ingrahammark7.
https://peakoilbarrel.com/open-thread-n ... y-17-2021/
If not, the two should get together and off each other. Must suck being so utterly useless.

Yes I already said that is me.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Solar is largely useless in eroi terms as is wind as I proved.

Claiming is not proving. As you have been told before.

The mods are straight up deleting my posts at this point, I will let them turn this forum into yet another blog where people can't do physics.

Do you even know what physics is? Hint: it's applied math. So try doing some MATH and showing your work, or at least credible citations instead of your usual empty blabbering randomness when you say "people can't do physics".

I'd expect as credible an assertion from a 5 year old. Seriously.

[mustang19]

Solar is largely useless in eroi terms as is wind as I proved.

Claiming is not proving. As you have been told before.

The mods are straight up deleting my posts at this point, I will let them turn this forum into yet another blog where people can't do physics.

Do you even know what physics is? Hint: it's applied math. So try doing some MATH and showing your work, or at least credible citations instead of your usual empty blabbering randomness when you say "people can't do physics".

I'd expect as credible an assertion from a 5 year old. Seriously.

I am of course the only person here with a real degree.

[AdamB]

I am of course the only person here with a real degree.

You mentioned that. Mechanical engineering. And also mentioned that you were so good at it, no one would pay you to do it. I can see why, based on your claim to be a troll, and you can't even do that.

[Gmark]

Diesel is 38kWh/gallon and about $3/gallon. Or roughly 13kWh/$.

Solar panels are about $1/watt. On a “typical” day you might get 15% out of them. That’s making a LOT of assumptions: latitude, cloud cover, maintenance, etc. so it is invariably pulled outa my kazoo. If someone has a better number we can use it. But using this we get
1 watt x .15 x 24 = 3.6wH/ day.
1300wH/3.6wH = 361 days.

Solar can prove in, but it takes a while.

This isn't correct.

You quote $1/watt for solar panels which is about right. But that's the hardware cost of buying the panel. After you get the panel, the fuel is free.

You're comparing it to the cost of diesel fuel, without also including the cost of the diesel engine and it's efficiency.

A proper comparison would be:
a. hardware
b. operating costs

Solar panels now are typically 20% efficient, and an average capacity factor is 20%.
Diesel generators are typically 35% efficient, and the capacity factor is determined by how much fuel you're willing to burn.

In the US, the payback time of a solar system is about 8 years.

[Gmark]

I am of course the only person here with a real degree.

You mentioned that. Mechanical engineering. And also mentioned that you were so good at it, no one would pay you to do it. I can see why, based on your claim to be a troll, and you can't even do that.

Mustang19 may have a degree, but I'm certain it's not in Mechanical Engineering. His posts reflect little understanding of physics.

[mustang19]

Solar is largely useless in eroi terms as is wind as I proved.

Claiming is not proving. As you have been told before.

The mods are straight up deleting my posts at this point, I will let them turn this forum into yet another blog where people can't do physics.

Do you even know what physics is? Hint: it's applied math. So try doing some MATH and showing your work, or at least credible citations instead of your usual empty blabbering randomness when you say "people can't do physics".

I'd expect as credible an assertion from a 5 year old. Seriously.

We have 10 year old wind farms retiring now like novus. That's 20gwh/mw.

10mwh/ton to heat, concrete is 2 tons water

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-017-0009-5

1.6e10t water vs 1e10 concrete = 1.6t/t

Turbine is 1kt so 30gwh/mw.



Solar is more area.

[Gmark]

We have 10 year old wind farms retiring now like novus. That's 20gwh/mw.

10mwh/ton to heat, concrete is 2 tons water

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-017-0009-5

1.6e10t water vs 1e10 concrete = 1.6t/t

Turbine is 1kt so 30gwh/mw.



Solar is more area.

This post is incoherent. LOL!

[theluckycountry]

I have grid connected solar all over my roof, 12kW of panels. I also have a 500W stand alone system that feeds a bank of Trogens. I love solar, but I have no illusions about the fact it's non-renewable. The cheap $1/W panels are not lasting as long as the quality Sharp Panels Japan used to make. Just like Chinese toasters and kettles don't last as long as the Japanese one did. More importantly, all panels are made on the back of cheap oil and Very cheap coal, totally unsustainable. They Talk about solar making solar but it's only ever talk, and talk about dollar equivalents, not Joules in the real world.

Take these cheap subsidies out of the equation and try and make panels with battery driven mining for the raw materials, solar powered smelters for the extraction of the metals and glass manufacture and you would get quite a different price/W.

In the decades ahead this will become obvious no doubt and expect solar will become a niche thing, not a world changing thing.

[Newfie]

Years ago there were a couple of Spanish Project Managers responsible for some big renewable installations. Back then Spain was big on going renewable. These guys monitored their installations and came to the conclusion that it was about a wash.

Been a long time and my memory is dim. But that may be enough info for someone interested to find the study.

Another thing I saw last year was farm land being converted to solar, along with forest being converted to farm in about equal numbers. I find that ludicrous.

[Gmark]

Years ago there were a couple of Spanish Project Managers responsible for some big renewable installations. Back then Spain was big on going renewable. These guys monitored their installations and came to the conclusion that it was about a wash.

Been a long time and my memory is dim. But that may be enough info for someone interested to find the study.

Another thing I saw last year was farm land being converted to solar, along with forest being converted to farm in about equal numbers. I find that ludicrous.

Yeah, I've seen a few solar projects that were break-even, but the project was intended to reduce emissions. The thinking was that even if the costs were identical, the reduction in emissions was a value in itself. Other projects often are technology demonstrators or 'capacity building' where they are trying to develop an industry.

But newer solar installations have new advantages. Maximum Power Point Tracking increases the power output and that seems standard now. Newer panels are much less expensive. I've only been involved in a couple of projects, but when I first started, solar panels were $10/watt, now they're $1/watt.

Two years ago we set up a research facility in a remote off-grid location, and it's had no difficulty running entirely off solar. If we had tried to do that 15 years ago, it would have been difficult and expensive.

I agree though, that sometimes the driver of a solar project is to make money from the tax breaks or subsidies, or venture capital funds.

[Newfie]

It is good to hear it is improving.

One guy l, a sailor down under, kept some detailed records and found it more economical to cook with a solar powered microwave than propane. This is on a boat and was a few years ago.

Sailboats are a special use case. It is hard to get enough wind and solar to run a boat 100%. We have very low usage and get by most times when in the Caribbean. Not so much back in the states.

The real and necessary improvements are in depowering our culture. The problem is that folks are being sold we can retain our high power ways by adopting renewables, which is utter bunk.

[Gmark]

It is good to hear it is improving.

One guy l, a sailor down under, kept some detailed records and found it more economical to cook with a solar powered microwave than propane. This is on a boat and was a few years ago.

Sailboats are a special use case. It is hard to get enough wind and solar to run a boat 100%. We have very low usage and get by most times when in the Caribbean. Not so much back in the states.

The real and necessary improvements are in depowering our culture. The problem is that folks are being sold we can retain our high power ways by adopting renewables, which is utter bunk.

Solar microwave sounds like a good idea. I don't know if solar refrigerators are effective anywhere other than the tropics, and even then it might be a stretch.

Have you ever heard of towing a small water turbine behind your sailboat to get extra charging? It would affect your sailboats' performance, but if you're not in a hurry, I wonder if it would be cost effective?

They now make jack rabbit turbines that put out 100 watts. I don't have any power curves.

I suspect though, that since sailor's aren't using them, that they wouldn't work well enough to be worthwhile. All the sailor's I know are very practical and would quickly determine whether another 'bright idea' should be deep-sixed.

Edit: I was curious and found one. https://www.yachtingjournal.com/news/sa ... ine-547760

[Newfie]

Refrigeration is the first big current draw you hit as you add amenities to your boat. For simple boats it is the biggest draw.

There are mfgs. Who make towed or water turbines. They have some popularity in the long distance race crowd.

Many sailors are practical, especially folks who have been at it. while. And there are many types of sailors; Wednesday night club racers are vastly different from live aboard cruisers. There are some out there with more money than brains and they are usually soon parted. But thats how experiments are funded.

[theluckycountry]

Solar is largely useless in eroi terms as is wind as I proved.

So what. Do you even read peoples posts? eroi is irrelevant to most of us here because there is more than enough oil and coal to see us out. Peak oil is about mitigating personal risk. The US invades the middle east and on a smaller scale I cover my roof with solar. If that doesn't work in 100 years what do I care, the equation works now and those still alive in 100 years can make their own arrangements. This idea that we have to solve the problems of our grandchildren is hypothetical drivel. Look at any campaigner for sustainability and you will see a person living in western luxury.

You need to stop going around the internet preaching "The End is Nigh" and get with the solution. Personal resilience.

[mustang19]

Solar is largely useless in eroi terms as is wind as I proved.

So what. Do you even read peoples posts? eroi is irrelevant to most of us here because there is more than enough oil and coal to see us out. Peak oil is about mitigating personal risk. The US invades the middle east and on a smaller scale I cover my roof with solar. If that doesn't work in 100 years what do I care, the equation works now and those still alive in 100 years can make their own arrangements. This idea that we have to solve the problems of our grandchildren is hypothetical drivel. Look at any campaigner for sustainability and you will see a person living in western luxury.

You need to stop going around the internet preaching "The End is Nigh" and get with the solution. Personal resilience.

In that case solar is pretty dangerous and you'll probably die in a fire. But hey.

[Outcast_Searcher]

In that case solar is pretty dangerous and you'll probably die in a fire. But hey.

Aside from the occasional fluke like botched Tesla solar roof installations at Walmart, do you want to give us several CREDIBLE citations of why solar is "pretty dangerous" and how people who use it will "probably die in a fire"?

I know math is VERY much not your thing, but a one in ten thousand or so chance a fire could occur does NOT mean death is PROBABLE from such a fire. Big hint: hundreds of incidents from millions of installations isn't PROBABLE -- even IF ALL such fires resulted in deaths.

For example, I recall NO deaths or even serious injuries from any of the Tesla solar roof fiasco fires at Walmart.

Though you almost never post credible citations for your claims, given how full of BS then tend to be, it doesn't mean there is lack of supporting data for CREDIBLE claims. For example (from page one of a simple google search on solar roof panel fires):

https://news.dualsun.com/installation-m ... tch%20fire.

https://www.nachi.org/solar-panel-fire- ... azards.htm

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/consu ... ar-systems

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2 ... ar-arrays/

...

Normal homes are full of the kinds of things that can go wrong with electrical connections. And yet, homes burn down rather rarely from such issues. One big reason is safety codes, that for example, have metal boxes enclosing such connections and those are HIGHLY likely to FULLY CONTAIN a fire at such connections, even if they occurred.

But I know, you have lots and lots of fear mongering, instadoom, and pure BS to sell, as always.

[AdamB]

Following on from recent statements suggesting that Africa must double investments to reach its energy and climate goals, the International Energy Agency (IEA) has set out leading green transition pathways for the continent – delivering better economic and social returns.

Link

[vtsnowedin]

Following on from recent statements suggesting that Africa must double investments to reach its energy and climate goals, the International Energy Agency (IEA) has set out leading green transition pathways for the continent – delivering better economic and social returns.

Link

Fine .
But what do you think about it? Do you agree or disagree with the paper? Cut and paste a quote and then promote it or trash that quote with reasonable arguments.
Do you think for yourself or just parrot others work?

[evilgenius]

I don't know. As a solar investor, I think it is good news that Africa is likely to invest more rather than less money in solar over the next period of time. It is more evidence that solar is going to explode, at some point. It has ceased to merely become something people talk about, but, instead, something that they put into their actual plans. As another for instance, I have noticed the small town I live in starting to mention making sure they spend so much money out of the budget in that direction, and they don't just mean powering a battery operated motion sensor now and again.

If Africa does that, I wonder if it will wind up giving them huge solar fields, or if it will incentivize them to develop a grid that includes local inputs, like your house, from the start? I wonder about the difference? Some solar companies have already made a sort of decision not to try and capitalize on panel manufacture. They will capitalize on installation and making systems easier. They won't make too many things. Other companies are still making things. What strategy they choose has a lot to do with how they see the grid developing. You see people with battery systems on YouTube, but that may not be how everyone would go solar. For the most efficient grid, people might mostly sell to the grid from their roofs. But, then, would we enter into one of those "freedom" arguments, over wanting to be independent from the grid and living solely over what one can generate one's self?