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Peak Coal

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 23 Dec 2019, 16:31:48

kublikhan wrote:Sometimes China says they will do one thing and actually does another thing. For example, they said they would stop building coal plants, yet they continued to build new coal plants at a breakneck speed.

The year 2018 marked a milestone: for the first time since China’s coal-building boom began in the 1980s, the coal fleet outside of China shrank. From January 2018 to June 2019, countries outside of China decreased their total coal power capacity by 8.1 gigawatts (GW), due to steady retirements and an ongoing decline in the commissioning of new coal plants. Yet over the same period China increased its coal fleet by 42.9 GW, and as a result the global coal fleet overall grew by 34.9 GW (Figure 1). As more countries turn away from coal and retire their plants, China’s continued pursuit of coal is increasingly out of step with he rest of the world, and is now effectively driving the ongoing expansion of the global coal fleet.

Today, 147.7 GW of coal plants are either under active construction or under suspension and likely to be revived—an amount nearly equal to the existing coal power capacity of the European Union (150 GW). Given the amount of capacity under development, China’s central government looks ready to increase—perhaps significantly—its 1,100 GW coal power cap, as set by its 13th Five-Year Plan (FYP 2016–2020). Coal and power industry groups are proposing the central government increase total coal power capacity by 20 to 40% to between 1,200 and 1,400 GW as part of China’s 2035 infrastructure plan. The 2035 infrastructure plan is expected to be released next year, and the 14th FYP in 2021.

The continued growth of China’s coal fleet and consideration of plans to significantly raise the nation’s coal power cap show that while the country is often hailed as a clean energy leader, the momentum of coal power expansion has yet to be halted. In July 2018, Global Energy Monitor (GEM) noted the central government was either unable or unwilling to slow the development of new coal plants permitted by provincial authorities in 2014–16. While the central government had issued measures slowing or stopping development on hundreds of coal plants in 2017, GEM found in 2018 that over a third of the restricted capacity had advanced in development or commissioning. Those trends have since continued, with about half of the capacity now moving forward in development.
Out of Step: CHINA IS DRIVING THE CONTINUED GROWTH OF THE GLOBAL COAL FLEET

The funny thing is they have much more coal power supply than they actually use. China's coal power plants are sitting idle half the time and yet they still build more. Despite the continued increase in coal power plants, China's coal consumption hasn't changed much in the last few years as it's still below it's 2013 peak.

Here’s the weird thing—more than half the time, China’s coal plants are just sitting around collecting dust. If China already has more coal power than it needs, why does it keep building new plants?

The answer can be found in energy regulations crafted during the Chinese coal boom of the 1980s, says Lee Branstetter, an economist at Carnegie Mellon University. As China opened itself to market reforms, it accelerated economic development, and its energy supply simply couldn’t keep up. Coal is an abundant natural resource in China, so the government adopted several energy policies to encourage the construction of coal plants. As a result, the plants proliferated as fast as the government could process them.

But that, says Branstetter, is the other key to understanding how China came to build more power plants than it needed. When the central government was the one approving each new coal plant, it could ensure that supply approximated demand. That all changed in late 2014 when China’s federal government allowed provincial governments to approve power plants on their own. The idea was to expedite the years-long approval process for new power plants while also boosting China’s economy by meeting its projected energy needs.

“On the surface it sounds great: You’re decentralizing the permit process and making it simpler,” Branstetter says. “But unfortunately for China, this opened the floodgates and resulted in an explosion of coal power plant construction.”

Even if all those power plants end up on China’s grid, Branstetter says there’s a good chance they won’t be used to their full potential. “China has a long history of building energy capacity that is not fully utilized,” says Branstetter. “From a Western perspective this seems wasteful or inefficient, but the possibility exists that coal plants will be built and not utilized on the grid.”

Indeed, coal-powered electricity generation in China has flatlined, despite the explosive growth in the number of coal plants. According to Daisy Ren, a doctoral student at Carnegie Mellon who studies the economics of energy policy, China’s coal use is expected to peak around 2020. “We should be concerned about whether China is burning more coal in the future, but increasing its coal capacity is not equivalent to using that much coal.”
China Is Still Building an Insane Number of New Coal Plants


I believe this "overcapacity" is the result of China building new plants further away from major population centers in a serious effort to reduce urban air pollution. Heck when they hosted the Olympics they closed every nearby coal burning power station to let the air clear for the international athletes. Someone in authority realized that the lower medical expenses of treating large urban populations with cleaner air to breath more than offset the cost of building long distance power transmission systems.
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Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 23 Dec 2019, 22:30:23

Tanada wrote:I believe this "overcapacity" is the result of China building new plants further away from major population centers in a serious effort to reduce urban air pollution. Heck when they hosted the Olympics they closed every nearby coal burning power station to let the air clear for the international athletes. Someone in authority realized that the lower medical expenses of treating large urban populations with cleaner air to breath more than offset the cost of building long distance power transmission systems.
The story I heard was different. Apparently the coal industry was unhappy with the "red tape" of Beijing's regulations that slowed new coal power plant approvals. So they delegated this power to the provinces. The provinces in turn authorized a massive boom in building new coal plants to goose the local economy. New coal power plant construction increased by a factor of four.

In September 2014, authority over coal plant construction approvals was moved from the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) to the provincial DRCs, reportedly to help provinces make investment decisions that better aligned their local power demand with supply. In practice, local authorities raced to approve projects they believed would stimulate local economies and employment.

Overall, DRC permits for construction increased from a 2005–2014 average of 47.5 GW a year to 184.3 GW in 2015, a four-fold increase (Figure 3). By the time the central government began restricting new permitting in March 2016, the provinces had given construction approval to over 245 GW of new coal-fired capacity. [All of the Europe Union only has 150 GW of coal capacity.]
Out of Step: CHINA IS DRIVING THE CONTINUED GROWTH OF THE GLOBAL COAL FLEET
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Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 14 Dec 2020, 08:23:12

Image

As we can all see from the coal consumption graph here from the BP while North America and Europe have decreased their coal consumption over the last decade 150 million tons the Asia Pacific has increased its consumption 300 million doubling the decrease for the "western world".

As several people keep pointing out CO2 is not going anywhere but up, and if not for the mass conversion of many American coal burning plants have converted over to burn natural gas in its place. Despite all claims by the fossil fuel industry while Natural Gas is less of a CO2 source it is still a CO2 source. Even worse all the thousands of miles of new pipes and new wells producing the gas inevitably leads to thousands of new leaks. Even if every leak is only 0.1% each leak is of nearly pure CH4 gas which has a warming impact of 25 to 100 times an equivalent quantity of CO2, depending on the source used for the calculation. At the low end the leaked CH4 has a global warming potential that more than cancels the 50% reduction in CO2 emissions that occur when it is burned compared to coal.

Therefore between the 600 million tons of additional coal being burned and the Natural Gas consumption that has also grown with great rapidity I don't see humanity turning away from tipping Earth over into a new climate long before we come to our senses. Thus once again I plea, put your funds into adaptation instead of pretending yet again that we will change our ways of burning everything we can ignite in our quest to consume every flammable we can access. Humans are at their core are pyromaniacs from the days of Adam to now and will likely always be so.
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Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby REAL Green » Sat 19 Dec 2020, 07:21:13

A Sino Anglo cold war will help peak coal along:

“China Endures Worsening Electricity Shortages In Name Of Punishing Australia”
https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/c ... -australia

"Coal is among the latest in a growing list of major Australian exports hit by severe restrictions in China, also including commodities like cotton, timber wine, lobster, and barley. While Chinese citizens might be able to forgo luxuries for a while like Aussie wine as well as lobster, coal is quite another thing especially given the country is currently facing a broad coal shortage…“Entire provinces are taking the surprise step of limiting industrial power and even cutting heating in government offices, expected to take effect Dec.11, according to the publication. This also includes limits imposed on entertainment and shopping venues like malls and move theaters, which is impacting their hours of operation. So ultimately this shows Beijing is so intent and devoted to punishing Australia that it will make its own citizens suffer in the downward spiraling spat that began last Spring when Canberra joined US calls for an independent probe into China's handling of COVID-19 as the place of origin for the pandemic. As it stands coal is Australia's third-largest export to China and is the latest to face severe and opaque import regulations, as Reuters revealed early this week: "Chinese media outlets including The Global Times and Caixin on Monday reported China’s top economic planner had granted approval to power plants to import coal without clearance restrictions, except for Australia," according to the report. The restrictions have reportedly left dozens of coal-laden ships idling off China's ports”
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Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 20 Dec 2020, 23:16:13

REAL Green wrote:A Sino Anglo cold war will help peak coal along:

“China Endures Worsening Electricity Shortages In Name Of Punishing Australia”
https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/c ... -australia

"Coal is among the latest in a growing list of major Australian exports hit by severe restrictions in China, also including commodities like cotton, timber wine, lobster, and barley. While Chinese citizens might be able to forgo luxuries for a while like Aussie wine as well as lobster, coal is quite another thing especially given the country is currently facing a broad coal shortage…“Entire provinces are taking the surprise step of limiting industrial power and even cutting heating in government offices, expected to take effect Dec.11, according to the publication. This also includes limits imposed on entertainment and shopping venues like malls and move theaters, which is impacting their hours of operation. So ultimately this shows Beijing is so intent and devoted to punishing Australia that it will make its own citizens suffer in the downward spiraling spat that began last Spring when Canberra joined US calls for an independent probe into China's handling of COVID-19 as the place of origin for the pandemic. As it stands coal is Australia's third-largest export to China and is the latest to face severe and opaque import regulations, as Reuters revealed early this week: "Chinese media outlets including The Global Times and Caixin on Monday reported China’s top economic planner had granted approval to power plants to import coal without clearance restrictions, except for Australia," according to the report. The restrictions have reportedly left dozens of coal-laden ships idling off China's ports”


Sounds to me like pure extortion. If Australia doesn't comply with whatever China wants then China will simply import coal from other suppliers. After all India, Indonesia are both major sources and China itself has hundreds of small but currently idled coal mines that can be placed back into production by government fiat which is what closed them to begin with.
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Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby JuanP » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 07:19:02

Subjectivist wrote:
REAL Green wrote:A Sino Anglo cold war will help peak coal along:

“China Endures Worsening Electricity Shortages In Name Of Punishing Australia”
https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/c ... -australia

"Coal is among the latest in a growing list of major Australian exports hit by severe restrictions in China, also including commodities like cotton, timber wine, lobster, and barley. While Chinese citizens might be able to forgo luxuries for a while like Aussie wine as well as lobster, coal is quite another thing especially given the country is currently facing a broad coal shortage…“Entire provinces are taking the surprise step of limiting industrial power and even cutting heating in government offices, expected to take effect Dec.11, according to the publication. This also includes limits imposed on entertainment and shopping venues like malls and move theaters, which is impacting their hours of operation. So ultimately this shows Beijing is so intent and devoted to punishing Australia that it will make its own citizens suffer in the downward spiraling spat that began last Spring when Canberra joined US calls for an independent probe into China's handling of COVID-19 as the place of origin for the pandemic. As it stands coal is Australia's third-largest export to China and is the latest to face severe and opaque import regulations, as Reuters revealed early this week: "Chinese media outlets including The Global Times and Caixin on Monday reported China’s top economic planner had granted approval to power plants to import coal without clearance restrictions, except for Australia," according to the report. The restrictions have reportedly left dozens of coal-laden ships idling off China's ports”


Sounds to me like pure extortion. If Australia doesn't comply with whatever China wants then China will simply import coal from other suppliers. After all India, Indonesia are both major sources and China itself has hundreds of small but currently idled coal mines that can be placed back into production by government fiat which is what closed them to begin with.


Subjectivist, you are correct. The Chinese have the capacity to replace 100% of their Australian coal imports from other sources, both foreign and domestic, and they are already doing that. You left out Russia, Mongolia, and Africa as other sources for increased coal imports. Also, the Chinese are transitioning from coal to natural gas, hydroelectricity, and other renewable energy sources.

Their is only one Australian import that the Chinese would not be able to replace 100% in the very short term future, and that is iron ore, but there are medium and long term solutions to that problem, too, including the recycling of scrap iron both in China and abroad, which could potentially provide tens, if not hundreds, of times as much iron.

The Chinese don't need anything from Australia, and if the Australians don't realize that soon and stop fucking with China they will regret it for the rest of their lives. Without exports to China and Chinese tourists and students, the Australian economy would be looking forward to the worst economic depression in the country's history.
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Re: Peak Coal Happened in 2014: IEA

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 09:10:12

“China's power supply is struggling as winter temperatures plunge. Is the ban on Australian coal to blame?”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-18/ ... l/12993418

“So is the ban on Australian coal to blame? Shane Oliver, AMP Capital's chief economist, told the ABC it was quite possible that the power cuts had a link to the coal ban, but that it was impossible to know for sure. "The disruption to the supply of coal into China as a result of the bans on Australia may also be playing a role in that and causing rationing," he said. "It is quite normal to have cold winters at this time of the year in China, so one would assume that's been allowed for." Have we hit peak China? As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations — and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list". However he said it was premature to assume China's trade tactics against Australia had backfired. "I think all countries which engage in trade wars tend to pay some price for it," Dr Oliver said. "Trade wars are not desirable, they do result in both sides losing: obviously one side loses because they don't get the supply and quality of supply that they're used to, the other side loses because they lose an export market." Jun Mao, a thermal coal analyst at Jiangsu Jinying Capital Management, told the ABC the power shortages were a sign of supply and demand issues in China.”
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Do we have peak coal ?

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 14 Oct 2021, 11:24:13

Hallo friends!

German EWG predict peak coal for 2020-2025 in 2007.

https://www.energywatchgroup.org/wp-con ... 007ms1.pdf

CU

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Re: Do we have peak coal ?

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 14 Oct 2021, 12:02:57

M_B_S wrote:Hallo friends!

German EWG predict peak coal for 2020-2025 in 2007.

https://www.energywatchgroup.org/wp-con ... 007ms1.pdf

CU

M_B_S


How many times do we have to go around and around this circular argument before it sinks in?

Most nations on Earth outside of Western Europe and North America are INCREASING their coal combustion day in and day out.

All the cherry picked data will not alter this fact.
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Re: Peak Coal

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 18 Oct 2021, 19:47:08

An article in the Chinese COAL shortage. Not a whole lot of detail. They are slow to up coal production. Why? No mention of how importing more coal is going. Etc.

Still not a terrible article.

https://gcaptain.com/chinas-power-woes- ... upply-lag/
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Re: Do we have peak coal ?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 18 Oct 2021, 23:26:38

Tanada wrote:
Most nations on Earth outside of Western Europe and North America are INCREASING their coal combustion day in and day out.

All the cherry picked data will not alter this fact.


EXACTLY RIGHT.

And while Coal use in the USA had been going down for years before Biden was elected president, now that Joe Biden is in charge things are looking better for coal in the USA as well.

peabody-coal-earnings-triple-biden-makes-coal-great-again]

Image
It only took Joe Biden six months to screw the economy up so badly that coal is becoming a hot commodity in the USA again and coal companies are doing very very well.....

SHEESH!
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Re: Peak Coal

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 04 Mar 2022, 16:22:08

You either use coal, or you suffer this.

Feb 21, 2022
Soaring Energy Prices Pose An Existential Threat To German Businesses:
Nearly one-fourth of Germany’s medium-sized enterprises fear they might not survive the soaring energy prices, a survey by the Federation of German Industries, BDI, showed on Monday.

Industries across Europe have been suffering from the surging energy prices since the autumn of 2021, when the natural gas crunch sent benchmark European gas prices soaring and electricity prices across major economies surging, too. Many energy-intensive industries, such as fertilizer producers and steelmakers, had to curb production as the record gas and power prices slashed their margins.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... esses.html

So called renewables are just as bad. Twice the energy cost now and ever increasing since they are all made from oil coal and gas. I'm no fan of coal but I don't want to pay double the electricity price either, or go without air conditioning etc. Fortunately I have abundant solar now, but in 20 years that will be junk and need replacing If I'm still alive.

Over the past 20 years, Europe closed its coal plants to embrace wind turbines. But, that back-fired in 2021 when wind energy decreased resulting in less generation from the continent’s wind turbines. With fewer coal plants to fall back on, Europe turned to generating electricity from natural gas, causing natural gas prices to skyrocket and forcing Europe into a greater reliance on Russian natural gas
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch. ... -to-close/


Ukraine Coal 37,891,906,250 Tons. Global Rank 7th

Deep below the ground in Ukraine, where Russia continues to mount an aggressive attack, lies vast, untapped mineral wealth... Ukrainian researchers have speculated that the country’s eastern region holds close to 500,000 tons of lithium oxide... if it holds, would make Ukraine’s lithium reserves one of the largest in the world.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/clim ... thium.html
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