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Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 15:59:04

From what I can find through google all off shore fracking operations use sea water as their working fluid. Also a number of onshore frackers have worked out ways to use brackish and saline waters from aquifers and produced water for their operations to save on fresh water costs. If it works as well as some claim it could go a long way to letting KSA frack those gas rich shales they might have found and see just how much methane they can produce from them. I know on the eastern side of Ohio they are still drilling at about the same rate into the Utica as they were two years ago, the gas is very 'wet', high in condensates so while they are technically gas wells they make a good fraction of their income from selling the condensates into the refinery system in Ohio and Pennsylvania as blending components.

This quote is about a company in Texas that has been working diligently to switch their operations over to use brackish well water and produced and flow back water from their operations to continue their fracking process.

Fasken Oil and Ranch Ltd. has discontinued using freshwater for drilling and hydraulic fracturing in the Permian Basin, and now uses only treated brackish water from the Santa Rosa formation along with recycled produced and flow-back water.

“Plus, we were making quite a bit of produced water and wanted to be able to treat that water and reuse it rather than pumping it into our disposal system,” he says.

During the fall of 2014, Fasken was using 5,850 barrels a day of treated Santa Rosa water on four rigs drilling at the time, Davis reports. Fasken was producing 10,000-11,000 barrels a day of produced water, recycling about 80 percent of that daily total for use in fracturing operations, he relates.

Produced water is gathered at a disposal facility and piped into an electrocoagulation unit that causes suspended solids to coalesce, Davis explains. Water is pumped into an open-top steel tank that contains baffles to accelerate solids settling. Water then flows into two horizontal, 500-barrel settling tanks before being pumped into a 125,000-barrel double-lined storage pit. Water is pulled from the storage pit and pumped as needed to frac job sites.

To date, Fasken has been using a blend of 60 percent recycled water and 40 percent treated Santa Rosa water, he says. Despite the slowdown in drilling, Davis reports that Fasken will continue to use a combination of Santa Rosa and produced water to meet all future needs on some 2,000 well sites yet to be drilled.

“It may be a while before we seriously ramp up drilling again, but those sites will be drilled and completed eventually,” he says. “We require more than 2 million gallons of water per well, and considering the number of locations, the ability to drill and stimulate them without using freshwater will be just as important to us in the future as it is today.”

http://www.aogr.com/magazine/cover-stor ... ter-supply
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 16:21:50

Yes sea water is used offshore for offshore drilling and some stimulation (and has been as long as I can remember) but the big issue is chemical compatibility. In fact for normal drilling operations saline drilling fluid is generally preferred as it allows for an easy means of increasing mud weight.

What operators want to avoid is inducing chemical reactions in the formation that can cause emulsions or solid precipitation. This isn't such a big issue in a conventional well that is vertical given the "formation damage" created is often just a few centimetres deep and can be cleaned up with an acid wash or frac. Where you are creating fractures you cannot risk plugging them off as once that happens you pretty much have to start all over. Rockman probably has more direct experience in this area given it has been very, very long since I was that close to the wellbore.

Very difficult to use a well in one basin as an effective analog for another basin, indeed one formation compared to another formation in the same basin. I think the Permian basin example you point to has to mix produced and treated refrac water at a certain percentage to avoid formation of sulphates but not sure. That is a common problem.

So will they be able to use sea water for fracking operations in SA? Likely but the important question is to what extent, how much dilution they need to use, what chemical treatment is required and what special acids are required to clean up fracks and at what expense. There isn't any one easy answer.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby americandream » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 16:32:59

C8 wrote:From what I understand also, SA folks are buying a lot of world real estate. This is something I would do if I had tons of cash but an iffy future revenue stream.


Provided of course, one contemplates a world still capable of bringing the goodies from your far flung real estate. Little point in presiding over monopolistic actions when you are aware that not only are your reserves looking shakey, you are killing off the energy goose elsewhere whilst buying real estate over there.

Unless of course, these guys have a penchant for building up assets they have no hope of reaching in that energyless future. Seems a bit far fetched.

That said, water is an issue for KSA, for sure.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 16:51:05

rockdoc123 wrote:... will they be able to use sea water for fracking operations in SA? Likely but the important question is to what extent, how much dilution they need to use, what chemical treatment is required and what special acids are required to clean up fracks and at what expense. There isn't any one easy answer.


The new Fishbone technology they are using in Saudi Arabia requires 95% less water than conventional fracking.

Cheers!
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 18:25:07

eugene wrote:I always enjoy endless comments by people who have read an article or two somewhere, some time arguing with people who the subject is their business. I have decades of experience as a professional pilot and, all to often, am lectured by people who read an article somewhere. Once listening to someone tell me what jets will and will not do, another guy edged up to me and asked "didn't you fly these"? Yep I said and listened to the self styled expert. Long ago, I learned the self styled folks are way to invested in being right. And like a puppy with a rag, just won't let go.

An excellent point. I've read multiple articles on psychology, etc. discussing this very behavior as a general thing many people do. Apparently people often are very overconfident of their knowledge about many things. And given the vehemence (and ignorance) in MANY arguments/discussions on the internet, especially politics (IMO), the "too invested in being right" comment certainly hits the nail on the head.

Hopefully a layman who freely admits they are a layman up front, admits they've only read some articles/books, and just tries to ask reasonable questions (and thanks the expert for the answer instead of arguing with them) isn't being a jackass. In my case, that's certainly NOT the intention.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 19:00:24

Outcast – Sorry for the late response...been looking for oil. What I do for a living, ya know. LOL.

Let’s try this to give a sense of the magnitude of the production of oil from shale formations. But since the world is a rather large stage let’s stick with a subset. But not just any ole shale. Let’s just look at the EFS. Fortunately we abound in EFS “experts” here who can confirm all about to share with you. LOL.

First let's size the areal extent of the EFS oil window where almost all the production surge was developed: about 30 miles by 200 miles. Actually less but I’m feeling generous. So generous I’ll include Dimmit count where Shell Oil acquired 250,000 acs (including the 100,006 ac Harrison Ranch it paid $1 BILLION just to lease. They drilled over 200 wells (another $1 to $2 BILLION investment), broke their financial back (even before the oil price collapse) and ran like a scalded dog announcing it was abandoning all US shale plays.

So that 6,000 sq miles producing all that oil. Sounds like a large area, eh? Now consider that the EFS formation (known by other names along the Gul Coast but the same shale formation) stretches all the way to the Florida Panhandle (pull any “Gulf Coast Geologic Basin” reference to confirm…hundreds of them). That’s over 1,200 miles. So just the oil window of that shale covers 36,000 sq miles. IOW the mighty oil producing portion of the EFS encompasses about 17% of the total area of JUST THE OIL WINDOW. And what is the total extent of the EFS formation in the Gulf Coast Basin? 200 miles X 1,200 miles = 240,000 sq miles. IOW the portion of the EFS that has been the center of the great “shale miracle” represents less than 3% of the total extent of the entire formation.

And some folks want to predict great oil potential for other shales around the world that have yet have any meaningful production? They aren’t even aware that 97% of even the EFS formation has yet to be proven part of the “shale miracle”. And that’s not for lack of info: the formation has been penetrated by many tens of thousands of wells.

But let’s pull it in and talk about just Texas. In Texas the entire EFS formation covers 200 miles X 400 miles = 80,000 sq miles or less than 8%. But let’s look at just the oil window: 30 miles X 400 miles = 12,000 sq miles. IOW only half. So here did the other half of the f*cking oil go??? LOL. Ever hear of the East Texas Oil Field? The 5.4 BILLION BBLS OF OIL produced from the ETOF? And guess what the source rock most consider was? Yes: the EFS. And thus the origin of the term SOURCE ROCK. That dynamic that seems to be a mystery to some “armchair petroleum geologists”. LOL.

Does it make sense now: the majority of the Eagle Ford Shale formation itself has little to no significant oil production potential? And this is one of the heaviest drilled and evaluated shales on the planet.

So one more time: the majority of oil production from a shale has come from just two formations…the Bakken and EFS. Not just in the US, not just in North America, not just in the western hemisphere…in the entire f*cking world. LOL. And this after the longest period of high oil price coincident with companies more desperate than ever to add oil reserves to the books while the financial world was making $TRILLIONS of capex available to the oil patch. And still just two thin formations with limited areal extents producing the majority of shale oil on the planet.

Again no geologist is going to waste time generating such a broad analysis that you requested because it’s so self-evident to the rest of us. It took enough of my valuable time to just lay out just one shale formation let alone the hundreds of other shale formations on the planet.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby americandream » Wed 30 Mar 2016, 19:08:09

This place seems to attract the academically obsessed when the bigger issue really is...wth is going on? Does any of it make sense and if not, lets go find the dumbass in the midst of this ballsup in the making. That to me is what I would be doing if I was in the oil sector and none of this added up as it clearly does not if what the rocks are saying is true, per se, unequivocally and not a damned hope in hell of inventing a straw, ever.

When I have the time, I shall have to sit down and actually look at this stuff as clearly, something has to be teased out of this that can be of use to the public at large. I have a very low opinion of the Saudis at every level and in my opinion, they are not fit enough to be global players. This confusion clearly backs me up.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 31 Mar 2016, 08:08:02

Dreamer – It really isn't that complicated if one really understands the dynamics. Above all else the shale boom was driven by high oil prices…and nothing else. All the other factors could have existed but it would not have mattered: with $35/bbl oil the boom would not have happened. Which isn’t theory but documented FACT: we knew the oil was there and we had already developed the technology to develop it. We also had most public companies in an absolute panic over their inability to grow their reserve bases at the lower oil price.

And no: the oil patch wasn’t surprised by the bust…it knew it would come eventually so it was just a matter of time. Which also explained why the pubcos borrowed so much capex so fast and poked holes as fast as possible: they had to run the stock values up as fast as possible so management could cash out before the party ended. Yes: that’s how business is often done by the publicly traded companies. Don’t like that truth? Get over it…the oil patch doesn’t give a f*ck what you like and don’t like. LOL.

So yes: a lot of reporting about the many pubcos going under and many money lenders/investors are taking a big hit. What you won’t see: reports of the $BILLIONS made by management teams that ran up stock prices drilling the shales like there was no tomorrow despite the FACT they knew tomorrow would eventually come. And the reason you won’t see such articles is that’s there no reason to brag about it. Remember Kenny’s song: “You don’t count your money sitting at the table”. Management isn’t going to advertise their windfalls while sitting at the table with millions of shareholders/investors taking a hit.

And it’s not like the oil patch invented this approach: look at the dotcoms, the housing market, the mortgage sellers, etc. This is why I try to give some sense of the reality of the situation by describing how very limited the shale reservoirs truly are by highlighting the facts about THE BIG SHALE PLAY: the EFS. Forget about the global shale hype: can you see from my numbers that even the magnitude of the EFS doesn’t come close to the hype we began seeing 8 years ago? And everything I posted above was known by the oil patch many years before the shales boomed. The oil patch was more than willing to let the public swallow the hype. OTOH it wasn’t responsible for them being fed the BS by the MSM. As long as they complied with SEC regs they did nothing illegal. Maybe not nice but still not illegal. And they didn’t need to do anything illegal: all it had to do was sit back and let the greed factor work its magic. LOL.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 31 Mar 2016, 08:23:39

Outcast/Dreamer - I know it's sometimes difficult to get the scale right by just looking at the numbers so here' a visual:

https://www.google.com/search?q=eagle+f ... ILA3RtM%3A

Notice a couple a points: this map doesn't even put it into statewide scale: it doesn't even carry to east Texas. And don't be confused: while it looks like the EFS ends half way to the LA border it doesn't. The EFS formation not only continues across the state but that equivalent shale formation (by other names) continues all the way to the Florida Panhandle. And look at the NW and SE limits of the drilling activity. The EFS continues far to the north as well as south into the GOM. But those areas aren't in the oil window, An oil window that's typically only one county wide. Take that map in for a moment and try to match it to all the bullsh*t hype that's been thrown at you for years. And now jump to the global picture and consider that the ALMIGHTY EAGLE FORD SHALE play represents an insignificant % of the area covered by all the petroleum bearing basins on the planet. Basins, with the exception of the Bakken's Williston Basin, that didn't see any significant developments in their shales comparable to the EFS and the Bakken even though we had $90+/bbl oil.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 31 Mar 2016, 10:01:02

Rockman you should take the LOL button on your keyboard and tape it over for a while. Just saying.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 31 Mar 2016, 10:33:33

vt - I use the LOL for a specific reason. Long ago folks had trouble telling if my statements were sarcastic or if I was upset. The LOL is just another way of saying "sarc" etc. Especially when I'm correcting someone I don't want them to feel as picked upon or insulted. Just as I'm doing with this reply to you. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 08:06:12

Sometimes the Rockman forgets to point out the obvious. I’m sure rocdoc can add more details since he’s much more familiar with the region then the Rockman.

And the obvious: SOURCE ROCK. If Shale A is a major source rock then that obviously means a significant amount of oil has MIGRATED OUT OF THAT FORMATION to fill other reservoirs. Such as the shales of Eagle Ford age have done with the BILLIONS OF BBLS of oil produced from east Texas. In south Texas obvious the migration of oil out of the Eagle Ford Shale source rock was lacking. Obvious because the EFS did not charge other reservoirs with billions of bbls of oil as it did elsewhere in the trend. Also obvious because of the billions of bbls of oil still held in the EFS. IOW as far as being a SOURCE ROCK that has been the SOURCE of huge multi-billion bbl conventional fields in south Texas the EFS has done a piss poor job. LOL

This point refers to the unsupported speculation about huge shale reserves in the KSA and elsewhere on the Arabian Peninsula. A bit of background first:

“…the geologic type section for the Qusaiba Member, which is a primary source rock for the world's largest oil field (Ghawar). The organic-rich shale of the Lower Silurian Qusaiba Member, of the Qalibah Formation, is one of the most prolific source rocks on the planet. It provides more than 90 percent of the Paleozoic light oil and gas accumulations known on the Arabian Peninsula.”

Also: “The basal "hot shale" of the Qusaiba is a black, euxinic, bottomset shale (up to 70 m thick) which was deposited during the Early Silurian sea level rise following the deglaciation of Gondwana. This Paleozoic shale is organic rich and the most likely source rock of the low-sulfur, high-gravity oil, condensate, and gas discovered in recent years in the Paleozoic rocks of central and eastern Saudi Arabia.”

None of which means there's zero potential to produce the shale source rock on the Arabian Peninsula but the fact that mucho BILLIONS OF BBLS OF OIL have been ejected out of those source rocks into Ghawar et al means there may not be much left in those formations to produce, Just as it is in the case of the EFS outside of the rather small area where the “shale miracle” developed.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 08:16:08

ROCKMAN wrote:vt - I use the LOL for a specific reason. Long ago folks had trouble telling if my statements were sarcastic or if I was upset. The LOL is just another way of saying "sarc" etc. Especially when I'm correcting someone I don't want them to feel as picked upon or insulted. Just as I'm doing with this reply to you. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Not a problem! I read most of your posts and it was bringing a mental image of Hillary's cackle to mind which I find irritating.
But the first amendment rules so carry on. 8)
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby tita » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 11:51:42

I'm always wondering about the shale miracle, which happened in US but not elsewhere. Of course, high prices, investors full of money searching for high yield, some recent (10-40 yo) technological stuff applied and a lot of drilling rigs around made this possible. Some specific environnment.

But what about the exploration? US is probably the most explored geologic place on earth for oil and gas. After 1970, oil companies searched everywhere, accumulating data on any hole they drilled, which didn't change the production going down. When shale oil began to be attractive with high prices, they knew where to dig... which was not evident because the window is quite small over the huge shale formation as rockman explained well. Did they just spared the huge cost of exploration using data 30 years old?

Is it something that was made around the world? Or was it only for US, and nobody else bothered to spend money on exploration in other shale formation? Which could well prevent any other shale oil revolution, the exploration costs being too high to make them commercially viable. And also, which would also explain why it didn't happened outside US.

I'm not in this industry, that's just thoughts I'm making.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 12:21:55

tita - A short answer: without the drilling infrastructure, the huge concentrations of publicly trade oil companies and some of the most readily available/publicly owned mineral rights it would be virtually impossible for another shale miracle to happen anywhere in the world even if they had a formation comparable to the Eagle Ford Shale. You've already pointed out the uniqueness of the dynamic in the US. I'm just backing you up.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 14:28:53

Or was it only for US, and nobody else bothered to spend money on exploration in other shale formation?


There has been a fair bit of shale exploration in Europe (Germany, Poland, Spain, France) but results were either less than satisfactory (Poland shales are too "plastic" to respond well to fracks) or regulatory issues get in the way (eg: limitations on fracking). Argentina has seen considerable success and have declared shales there commercial at current prices. Getting the infrastructure together for them is the big challenge, as is dealing with the unions. Australia has had limited success in one of their basins but pretty much economic failure in the others. China is pretty tight lipped about what they are doing although I am aware they were exploring in the western basins fairly aggressively over the past few years. Algeria never appears in the press but they have been producing gas from shalely sections in the Devonian (Oued Mya Basin) for a number of years.

Note that companies and governments need a good reason to build the necessary infrastructure and create the required competitive service environment. $35/bbl oil and $6/Mcf gas (on average globally) doesn't make for a good reason.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby americandream » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 16:52:39

Rockman

Cheers dude. Lots of info to collate, read and make sense of. I am trying to speed read as this stuff really needs a concise understanding of many disciplines....not too successfully I might add...so I usually look between the lines to save on time. But thanks anyways.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 01 Apr 2016, 22:23:39

And consider Doc's mention of shale exploration in Poland. At the time the US had 1,600+ rigs drilling there were JUST A TOTAL OF 4 DRILLING RIGS in Poland. So if they had discovered another "shale miricle" in Poland how much would it had cost to build the new rig fleet? And who would make those $billions in investment? And how long to train the hands that don't current exist? Of course the same questions about frac'ng infrastructure and workers.

And if all that had happened what do you think life would be like in the greatly expand Polish oil patch today now that oil prices have collapsed? One more crude Polish joke, eh? LOL. In reality the global oil patch should thank Dog no other "shale miracles" had developed around the world.
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Re: Whats the tight oil prospect for Saudi Arabia?

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 10 Jul 2020, 15:44:32

Tight Gas includes (usually) a lot of NGL which is Oil by another name.

https://pubs.spe.org/en/jpt/jpt-article-detail/?art=6652

Saudi Aramco Set To Make $110-Billion Investment in Tight Gas

Saudi Aramco is moving forward with a $110-billion plan to develop the Jafurah tight-gas field that lies to the east of the supergiant Ghawar oil field. Aramco announced government approval of the capital project on 22 February.

Jafurah is considered to be Saudi’s largest unconventional gas prospect, holding an estimated 200 Tcf of technically recoverable resources, according to Aramco.

Khalid Al-Abdulqader, the executive director of unconventional resources at Aramco, described the field as a “world class” shale play at last month’s International Petroleum Technology Conference (IPTC) in Dhahran.

Commercial production from the source-rock formation is not expected to begin until early 2024. By 2026, Aramco’s output from Jafurah is projected to be 2.2 Bcf/D of natural gas and 425 MMcf/D of ethane. In addition, the field is expected to produce another 550,000 B/D of natural gas liquids (NGLs) and condensate.

Al-Abdulqader shared at IPTC that early production facilities are already up and running in Jafurah for the long-term testing of appraisal wells. Aramco continues to study decline curves and ultimate recovery factors. The early learnings have led to lower drilling and completion costs on subsequent wells, he added.

The current plan involves three development blocks, each 10 sq. mi. Two will be supported by an existing gas facility and the remaining block will require the construction of a new gas plant. The existing facility will be used to transport sales gas to Aramco’s export terminals where it will sail to global markets.

The NGLs will be sent to fractionation facilities to make ethane and propane products. The dry gas will not leave Saudi’s shores, and instead will be used as feedstock for the country’s power grid.

Aramco, the world’s top crude exporter, has been testing its shale potential for at least 6 years in a bid to become a major exporter of gas. Al-Abdulqader highlighted that the key to Aramco’s unconventional strategy is its “agile, and ringed-fence organization," in which engineers of every stripe—drilling, reservoir, and production—are integrated with each other, but kept separate from the company's conventional business units that require a different structure.

The early phases of the operator's unconventional projects have focused on seismic studies, rock characterization, and learning how to land horizontal wells in the ideal horizon. Al-Abdulqader noted that the company has around 100 geologists working to characterize each of its unconventional targets. The company has also worked with international service companies to find the right tools for its unconventional future. “Every rock is different, and every rock needs it own cutting-edge technology for stimulation and maximum production,” he said.

The two other unconventional gas fields currently being explored in the country are the South Ghawar, located on the southern edge of the oil field by the same name, and the North Arabia field.
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