[Outcast_Searcher]

FWIW- while they are easy targets for ire, golf courses comprise the tiny fraction of land vs. farming in terms of chemicals applied per acre

What's more, golf course are on the decline already and are closing at historic rates as demographic changes reduce interest in the sport

Wave of golf course closures leaves owners stuck in the rough
More than 800 golf courses have closed in the last decade nationwide, creating a huge real estate problem.

https://www.startribune.com/wave-of-gol ... 391352721/

With morbid obesity /obesity / videogames and browsing on the rise, and busy, successful people more into power-walking, serious weight training, and mainly time efficiency for all things, including exercise, I can't say I'm surprised.

Plus in cities, just imagine how much money they can get for selling prime golf course land for space for more malls, more houses, etc.

...

Land use is a sore spot with me. My city, Lexington, KY used to have a LOT of very beautiful horse farms in the outskirts and near the city. So many it made our area somewhat unique, and known for the horses. A tragic/huge amount of them are gone, but we have a HELL of a lot of housing spread, lots more shopping, lots more roads and traffic, etc. (like any random city).

[REAL Green]

FWIW- while they are easy targets for ire, golf courses comprise the tiny fraction of land vs. farming in terms of chemicals applied per acre

Land use is a sore spot with me. My city, Lexington, KY used to have a LOT of very beautiful horse farms in the outskirts and near the city. So many it made our area somewhat unique, and known for the horses. A tragic/huge amount of them are gone, but we have a HELL of a lot of housing spread, lots more shopping, lots more roads and traffic, etc. (like any random city).

The car culture of growth is making the world homogenized. It is defining every square inch of the world. The alternative is degrowth. Smart growth is still growth and growth is the problem. At a minimum we should call into question the car culture of growth and realize it is a trap. To fix it we kill it. The consequences of degrowth is poverty at least for the majority. The rich and connected will manage to hold on to wealth relatively which is same as it always was. The car culture of growth will destroy itself eventually so a smart policy would be adaptive degrowth. Realize degrowth is inevitable and start creating strategies of adaptation within the context of poverty. The trap is behavioral because no platform can sell degrowth which is poverty. It is political suicide. The result for the rational person is put your seat belt on for a bumpy ride.

[dohboi]

One of the advantages of a growth economy to the rich is that the majority for a while could feel that they had a chance to increase their economic status without the wealth being redistributed to them from the wealthy. More recently, nearly all the benefits of growth have gone to the super wealthy.

To (rightly) embrace degrowth, as you do, means that you also have to be in favor of re-redistribution of wealth back to the least wealthy, in order to prevent hundreds of millions from falling below minimally humane conditions.

Discuss...

[Ibon]

One of the advantages of a growth economy to the rich is that the majority for a while could feel that they had a chance to increase their economic status without the wealth being redistributed to them from the wealthy. More recently, nearly all the benefits of growth have gone to the super wealthy.

To (rightly) embrace degrowth, as you do, means that you also have to be in favor of re-redistribution of wealth back to the least wealthy, in order to prevent hundreds of millions from falling below minimally humane conditions.

Discuss...

Counter intuitively, it is exactly when the economy goes into recession and there is less aggregate wealth that we see the opportunity for more equitable wealth distribution. The recession of the 30's and the New Deal legislated social security and collective bargaining and other similar policies that reduced income inequality.

We are entering a synergistic period when once again we will see social initiatives gain traction.

The Bottom Line
The New Deal policies implemented by Roosevelt went a long way in helping to reduce income inequality in America. But with regard to the task of reviving an economy in crisis, the New Deal is considered by many to have been a failure.

While debates continue as to whether the interventions were too much or too little, many of the reforms from the New Deal, such as Social Security, unemployment insurance, and agricultural subsidies, still exist to this day.16 If anything, the legacy of the New Deal is that it has helped to create greater equality and welfare in America.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/i ... w-deal.asp

[REAL Green]

To (rightly) embrace degrowth, as you do, means that you also have to be in favor of re-redistribution of wealth back to the least wealthy, in order to prevent hundreds of millions from falling below minimally humane conditions. Discuss...

Degrowth and redistribution will go hand in hand but often in a haphazard way. There are tradeoffs with both ways and the devil is in the details with finding the sweet spot. Take for example the Bernie crowd and their ideas. They are going to redistribute to their people creating a new wealth class. Will it be less of a parasitic class than the current one? Maybe but it is also possible the Bernie plan would damage the economy more and leave little net redistribution to those in need and only help out the newly created wealth class. I am not saying this is the case. I think this is a big unknown with lots of other circumstances in play but the point is consequences and tradeoff are part of the trap of the gradient of decline.

What is all too apparent now is the dysfunctional and irrational of the markets that remain elevated when they should be in decline yet, this is creating a wealth effect and economic activity. What happens if a socialistic platform crushes the markets? Then what is going to be the heartbeat of economic activity in a system so far into dysfunction? I do not think a Green New Deal with MMT is going to create the economic activity those peddling this say it will. One needs only look at Europe and see the boost to growth is minimal with green policy. Some Green New Deal with some MMT might work but looking at the diminishing returns to debt additions currently. This points to a failure of more of the same of financial repression and easing. It is not working now but without it there is a black hole.

So degrowth is essential to solve problems and degrowth will create new ones which is a Catch 22. Honest science says continued status quo of car culture growth is heading for a limit and decline. This means both approaches of growth or degrowth will be destructive. Time is the issue so there is an opportunity cost. If we embrace degrowth now we get to the pain sooner but maybe the pain is less. Yet, continued growth means problems and new infrastructure are being built that could end up not built. A serious policy of degrowth might collpase everything. That is an unknown but appears possible.

Which redistribution strategy is the best? That probably will depend on which economic strategy is embraced. The reality is car culture growth is firmly in charge and will only be modified by active policy on the margins but nature will alter it at the foundation at some point. So, getting back to redistribution it depends. If we stick with the current approach redistribution will be trickle down with the trickle turning to a drip. If Bernie socialism gets a chance maybe on balance more will be better off but there will be a new wealth class created mainly becuase money, power, and connections breeds privilege. Somebody will be in charge and grease somebodies’ palms. I see a decline process with both approaches experiencing failure becuase they are both selling success. Selling success when there is only failure means irrational and dysfunction. A rational degrowth policy admitting poverty and embracing it now in my opinion would be the best way forward but without a doubt dead on arrival. No platform can sell it.

[dohboi]

Ib wrote: "it is exactly when the economy goes into recession and there is less aggregate wealth that we see the opportunity for more equitable wealth distribution"

Usually true, but not this time, from what Ive been reading

RG--have you ever heard of the group/movement 'Riot For Austerity'?

[REAL Green]

RG--have you ever heard of the group/movement 'Riot For Austerity'?

I will check into it. Thanks