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US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 08 Feb 2020, 15:15:52

Mature responsible adults would do nicely.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby careinke » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 03:52:55

asg70 wrote:That is just a tip of the iceberg of Trump's mismagement. That despite all this the majority of active posters support this guy is baffling to me. I really think in the end a great number of americans are effectively in a brainwashed right-wing stupor, even to the point of extreme cognitive dissonance and voting against your real interests. I don't know if it's driven more by a hatred of the left (you see this with Plant) or what, but it's the only way to explain it.


I find people who think they know the best interest of another individual more than the individual himself, to be extremely pompous and arrogant. Maybe, they find other things more important to themselves, than your own warped sense of values. Who made you the protector of someone else's self interest? I suggest you worry about yourself and quit trying to control others.

Maybe this explains why some Dims say the election is to important to leave to the people.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 09:35:41

The absurdity has risen to cult levels. Only in cults does one find that people will put up with this much. Not even the church goes this far. I hope it doesn't bring war. Wars are common in places where so much hubris takes place.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 09:55:08

Evil,

I share you hopes but I’m not optimistic. It seems to be a part of human make up that we go through these counter productive cycles.

From the Mayans to the Chinese with lots in the middle we find reasons to “off” many of our species.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 16:59:56

careinke wrote:I find people who think they know the best interest of another individual more than the individual himself, to be extremely pompous and arrogant.


I find those who lead their voting habits based on outrage (see above) to be the perfect recipe for voting against their best interests. Funny how we haven't really progressed beyond sentiment like this.

careinke wrote:Maybe this explains why some Dims say the election is to important to leave to the people.


I also find those who use slang put-down terms like "Dims" to be not that worth jousting on the internet because they are closed-minded tribal ideologues. Frankly I strongly favor splitting the country into red and blue states because there appear to be irreconcilable differences to the point of not even being able to talk things through in a civil manner.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 20:25:45

evilgenius wrote:What a fiasco. Trump has no plan. He's rooted around trying to fulfill the anti-globalist wishes of his political power base, and totally f'd up the balance of power. There has been in place a long term move on Russia, by taking the oil states nearest to them and most aligned with them. Iran is, essentially, Russia's proxy in the region. Now, Iraq, which has ties to Iran, is considering backing away from its ties to the US. All of that blood spilled over Iraq and Trump managed to throw a wrench into the situation with one impetuous decision that he calculated would make him look good, for the time being.

First Trump compromises the US with Ukraine, so that they lack trust in the US. Of course, that followed on the heels of anti-Chinese rhetoric reaching the point of a trade war. This when Trump got elected promising to do things like make coal mining great again. That's just a symbol of his anti-globalist agenda, appealing to people where they only think about these things one way. His whole make America great again strategy is a compilation of these one off anti-global reaches. Those people who think that way, however, are in for a surprise. Wrestling manufacturing status back from China is an AI era move. It can only take place in an employment situation where the cost of employing people is as low as AI can make it. The power those old jobs had to make a life for the people who still want to believe in them is over. Pretty soon, in the face of AI, everyone will be in the same boat as those Appalachian coal miners, taking whatever scrap work they can get - for whatever they can get from it.

He's framed the Soleimani killing in that same narrative, as a one off show of his, Trump's, testosterone. So, now, the Russians are in even more deeply with the Syrian state. Iraq may not be far behind, after the killing's ramifications become thoroughly known. The Syrian state will remain the Syrian state as we have known it too. It's not coming around toward the US because Trump failed to support the opposition. In fact, he blatantly bailed on the Kurds at a crucial time. That wasn't against the Syrian state, but the Turks. Still, it undermined the trust the Kurds may have had in the US. Trump is dismantling work done over many decades to help the US face Russia in the event that peak oil goes poorly for the US. That work was done with the idea that Russia could hold an unacceptable upper hand over the US during the peak, if things went poorly. Trump must really believe in fracking, or he doesn't know what he is doing. I think he doesn't know what he is doing. He also believes in fracking, so he won't let this criticism sink in. By accident he has sent a wrecking ball through the support for the US, in the event it goes a certain way in the future.


The fiasco did not involve a disruption of a balance of power but the costs of such.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Cog » Sun 09 Feb 2020, 22:37:06

I seem to remember Obama telling Romney during their debate that Russia was no big deal. Now the left wants to go to war with Russia. To those who wish the fight Russians, take a trip to Ukraine and get your fill of it. Gee what changed?
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 10 Feb 2020, 08:47:13

It’s just human tribalism. We all do it to one extent or another. Not much making sense out of it.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 10 Feb 2020, 12:36:08

Coincidentally I just came across this article that does a good job of explaining my whip above. Ironically it was clearly written by a left leaner who had trouble finding right leaning examples!

It’s a good little read that sums up current research.

https://www.inverse.com/science/motivated-reasoning
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby derhundistlos » Mon 10 Feb 2020, 16:45:40

Despite declarations by Trump, Plant, and others that no US military personnel were injured in the "pre-coordinated" missile attack on a US base in Iraq, this from Reuters:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) ― The U.S. military is preparing to report a more than 50% jump in cases of traumatic brain injury (TBI) stemming from Iran’s missile attack on a base in Iraq last month, U.S. officials told Reuters on Monday.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of an announcement, said there are now well over 100 cases of TBI.

U.S. President Donald Trump tried to play down the serious nature of the brain injuries, saying he “heard that they had headaches and a couple of other things".
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby derhundistlos » Mon 10 Feb 2020, 16:51:25

@ asg70

I salute you for standing up to the gang with observations of truth and honesty.

You're right about those who resort to using slurs such as "dims". Attacks of this nature are typical of intellectually bankrupt scoundrels.

Did you see this?

“Trump Ordered to Pay $2 Million Fine for Misuse of Charitable Funds” ~~FOX News~~

“A judge Thursday ordered President Donald Trump to pay $2 million to an array of charities as a fine for misusing his own charitable foundation to further his political and business interests.”

Just when I thought I had seen everything, Trump is convicted of earmarking charitable funds for his personal benefit, although at this point I am not surprised. He only wanted to create the public perception that he is a charitable human being when in fact he could give a flying crap.
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 30 Nov 2020, 22:12:24

Iran assassination could undercut Joe Biden’s diplomatic options

The assassination of a top Iranian nuclear scientist, which Tehran has blamed on Israel, risks not only sharpening tensions across the region but also severely complicating plans by US President-elect Joe Biden to resume dialogue with the Islamic republic, analysts said Saturday.

Iran has accused arch-foe Israel of seeking to sow “chaos” by killing 59-year-old Mohsen Fakhrizadeh and has strongly implied that the Jewish state was acting with US blessing.

Washington has not officially commented on the operation, in which gunmen targeted Fakhrizadeh’s car on a road outside Tehran, according to Iran’s defense ministry.

But President Donald Trump has retweeted others’ comments on the incident, including at least one that said the scientist had been “wanted for many years by Mossad,” the Israeli intelligence agency.

Trump in 2018 withdrew the US from the multination nuclear agreement with Iran, instead launching a “maximum pressure” campaign which he appears determined to pursue until he leaves office in January.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who recently visited Israel, on Friday announced new economic sanctions against some Chinese and Russian firms accused of having supported Iran’s missile program.

“This administration… is here until January 20” and will “continue to pursue its policies,” a senior US official traveling with Pompeo said during a stop Sunday in Abu Dhabi.

“I would hope that this leverage that the administration works so hard to get will be used to good purpose to get the Iranians to, once again, start behaving like a normal state.”
‘Criminal act’

But for some American analysts, the killing of Fakhrizadeh was a dangerous act that undercuts Biden’s stated intention of offering Iran “a credible path back to diplomacy” as a step toward the United States rejoining the nuclear accord.

Former CIA head John Brennan tweeted Friday that the scientist’s killing was a “criminal act & highly reckless,” saying it “risks lethal retaliation & a new round of regional conflict.”

Brennan, who led the US intelligence agency from 2013-2017, when Barack Obama was president and Biden was vice president, exhorted Iran to “wait for the return of responsible American leadership on the global stage & to resist the urge to respond against perceived culprits.”

As the US was moving a carrier group led by the USS Nimitz back to the Gulf — while insisting this had nothing to do with the assassination — Germany warned on Saturday against any new “escalation.”

“We call on all parties to avoid taking any action which could lead to a new escalation of the situation” which “we absolutely do not need at this moment,” a German foreign ministry spokesman told AFP.

“Weeks before a new government takes office in the United States, existing dialogue with Iran must be maintained in order to resolve through negotiation the conflict over Iran’s nuclear program.”
‘Outrageous action’

That view was shared by Ben Friedman, a defense specialist at George Washington University.

The killing, he said, was “an act of sabotage against US diplomacy and interests” and would “likely help Iranian hardliners who want nuclear weapons.”

For Ben Rhodes, a former advisor to Obama, “This is an outrageous action aimed at undermining diplomacy between an incoming US administration and Iran.”

He added: “It’s time for this ceaseless escalation to stop.”

Some analysts, however, saw the killing in Iran as providing leverage to the incoming US administration that could be useful in possible negotiations with Tehran.

“Still almost two months before Joe Biden takes office,” noted Mark Dubowitz, director of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD).

“Plenty of time for U.S. and Israel to inflict severe damage on the regime in Iran — and build leverage for the Biden administration.”


https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/iran-a ... c-options/
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Mon 15 Mar 2021, 13:42:52

And there will be tons of money to made from war because war is one of the most profitable business on the planet. The USA spent 700 billion usd in 2010 on "defense" aka military spending, which is more money spent than the combined budgets of the eight other largest militaries in the world. It is not even so much a matter of controlling oil that wars are fought in the Middle East. It is more of a matter of simply continuing the war machine to make money for the military industrial complex.
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Iran, China, and Russia: There will be support!

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 28 Mar 2021, 00:17:01

"Iran and China ink 25 year Strategic Partnership Accord as both nations face US pressure"
https://www.rt.com/news/519382-iran-chi ... agreement/

Iran, Russia, and China continue growing their strategic relationships based on respect for each other's sovereignty and independence. These three civilization nation states have all been around in one form or another for over a thousand years, and together are unstoppable. The USA's constant attacks against them will keep drawing them closer.

Russia and China were talking about cooperating in missile defense, wide bodied jets, jet engines, and nuclear subs at this week's meetings. These are essentially the only issues they are still not cooperating on. If they manage to overcome their differences on these issues, their strategic partnership will cover all aspects possible. They already agreed in cooperating in the development of semiconductors manufacturing supply chains earlier this month.
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