[jedrider]

[This is mistaken view.
"Rights" are zero sum game.

Really?
The first thing that pops into my head. How can recognizing a same sex partner as "family" with the right to visit their partner in the hospital possibly reduce anyone else's rights?

Probably not what you are thinking.

Oops! We just crushed somebodies 'right' to feel exceptional that they are straight under a patriarchal God.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia has been a chimera all this time. It still won't stop us from being 'liberal' as our preferred state of affairs, even as it is enforced by a fossil fuel machine of destruction.

[dissident]

And your answer basically is if we want society, we have to embrace savagery.

No, savagery is already embraced in places like Sweden, in parts of Germany, also in certain American cities like SF, LA or Seattle, to name a few.
Surely there will be more of it.

The fake western left now consists of media-indoctrinated drones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih2skRPKc9s

Seriously, these drones experience severe cognitive dissonance when exposed to any information that contradicts their dogma.

[EnergyUnlimited]

The fake western left now consists of media-indoctrinated drones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih2skRPKc9s

Seriously, these drones experience severe cognitive dissonance when exposed to any information that contradicts their dogma.

To a large degree I viev these people as a suicide cult.
Very large one indeed.
When I think deeper about it sometimes I have thoughts that these migrants are here for the purpose.
Means to replace these idiots.
Sell them drugs, rape their women to produce something more useful, take their jobs away (if they have any) etc.
Most of migrants have some useful skills.
One can wield macheta well, second will make a working bomb, another will be a good pimp and yet another one a successful drug dealer.
And what liberals can do?
Nothing. Only whine that they are abused/offended. Snowflakes.
Need replacing.

PS. Black Pigeon also made a good film about "Islam is Right About Women" prank, which abhorrified left.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/DqBkuC4Oh-g/

[dohboi]

Ooooh...Sweden....scaaaary !!!

You guys really crack me up.

Now you are just ranting about your tribalism.

Can we please get back to GW/CC

There are plenty of other places for people to crow about how great their own tribe is and how awful the other tribe is...ok?

[dohboi]

https://library.wmo.int/doc_num.php?explnum_id=9936

The Global Climate in 2015–2019 from the World Meteorological Organisation


Air Temperatures

The average global temperature for 2015–2019, which is currently estimated to be 1.1 ± 0.1 °C above pre-industrial (1850–1900) level, is therefore likely to be the warmest of any equivalent period on record. It is 0.20 ± 0.08 °C warmer than the average for 2011–2015.

That's a rate of 0.4 °C per decade. Hansen was right?

The global mean land-surface air temperature for 2015–2019 was approximately 1.7 °C above pre-industrial and 0.3 °C warmer than 2011–2015.

That's a rate of 0.6 °C per decade

The global mean sea-surface temperature for 2015–2019 was approximately 0.8 °C above pre-industrial and 0.13 °C warmer than 2011–2015.

That's a rate of 0.26 °C per decade

Sea Level Rise

Over the five-year period 2014–2019, the rate of global mean sea-level rise has amounted to 5 mm/year. This is substantially faster than the average rate since 1993 of 3.2 mm/year. The observed rate of global mean sea-level rise has increased from 3.04 mm/year during the 10-year period 1997–2006 to 4.36 mm/year during the previous 10-year period 2007–2016

Ocean heat content

Ocean heat content has reached new records since 2015. Measured over the layer from the surface to 700 meters depth, 2018 had the largest ocean heat content values on record, with 2017 ranking second and 2015 third. 2016 also had higher values than any pre-2015 year in most datasets. In the NCEI dataset, the ocean heat content anomaly (recomputed relative to the reference period 1981–2010) for 2018 was 13.0 x 1022 J for the 0–700 meter layer, and 18.2 x 1022 J for the 0–2000 meter layer, compared with the pre-2015 annual records of 9.5 x 1022 J and 14.3 x 1022 J, respectively.

SEAWATER IS BECOMING MORE ACID

Observations from open ocean sources over the last 20 to 30 years have shown a clear trend of decreasing average pH, caused by increased concentrations of CO2 in seawater. There has been an overall increase in acidity of 26% since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

It is well established that this decreases the effectiveness of the ocean CO2 sink

(Thanks to geront at asif for link and text)

[rockdoc123]

SEAWATER IS BECOMING MORE ACID

Observations from open ocean sources over the last 20 to 30 years have shown a clear trend of decreasing average pH, caused by increased concentrations of CO2 in seawater. There has been an overall increase in acidity of 26% since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

Sea water has always been alkaline. Since the early nineties it has been dropping at a rate of 0.001/annum to the current value of around 8.05. Given that a neutral solution is 7.0 sea water at this rate would not become actually acidic for about a 1000 years. It would be correct to state the oceans are becoming less alkaline, they don't become acidic at all until they pass the point of neutral

[GHung]

Sea water has always been alkaline.

Since rocdoc has a habit of picking nits:

First oceans may have been acidic
https://earth.stanford.edu/news/first-o ... #gs.77k4ch

......... Putting numbers to the proposed pH, Dr. Halevy says that, three to four billion years ago, the pH of ocean water was somewhere between 6.0 and 7.5 – between that of milk and human blood. He says: “This gives us some clues as to the conditions under which life emerged in the early oceans.”

[rockdoc123]

Halevy, I and Bachan, A. 2017. The geologic history of seawater pH. Science, V 355, pp 1069-1071.

According to this paper using the full range of all models for pre-historic pH the oceans have had ph >7.0 for a minimum of 1.5 billion years and a maximum of 3.8 billion years (dependant on model outcome).

Given vertebrates didn’t appear until 500 mya, mammals didn’t appear until ~200 mya, hominids didn’t appear until 20 mya and homo sapiens not before 800,000 years ago I think it is safe to say that for arguments about man’s influence on ocean ph it is fair to say it has always been alkaline. Arguing differently is just stupid.

[asg70]

The terminology of whether it's acid, neutral, or base is a meaningless distraction.

What matters is the sweet spot that current sea life is adapted to expect. When it comes to that, there are no shortage of articles illustrating the problems being experienced through the oceans becoming more acidic, especially shellfish. From the video linked (which is already kinda old) it says Woods Hole predicts 25% less shellfish harvests within 50 years. It's just one of so many datapoints indicating a steadily degrading global carrying capacity which ultimately leads us to human die-off.

[rockdoc123]

What matters is the sweet spot that current sea life is adapted to expect. When it comes to that, there are no shortage of articles illustrating the problems being experienced through the oceans becoming more acidic, especially shellfish.

and there is no shortage of published research demonstrating the resistance of many species to wide ranges of pH in sea water. Just confining that to shellfish here are a few:

Dell'Acqua, O., Trebala, M., Chiantore, M. and Hannula, S.-P. 2019. Robustness of Adamussium colbecki shell to ocean acidification in a short-term exposure. Marine Environmental Research 149: 90-99

Exposed this species of scallop to 8.12 and 7.6 ph sea water for a little over a month and noted no effect of Ph could be detected in crytal deposition or in mechanical properties

Benítez, S., Lagos, N.A., Osores, S., Opitz, T., Duarte, C., Navarro, J.M. and Lardies, M.A. 2018. High pCO2 levels affect metabolic rate, but not feeding behavior and fitness, of farmed giant mussel Choromytilus chorus. Aquaculture Environment Interactions 10: 267-278

Looked at this species in three different pCO2 conditions 500, 750 and 1200 uatm for a month. No discernable difference in growth rate of biomass

Liu, W., Yu, Z., Huang, X., Shi, Y., Lin, J., Zhang, H., Yi, X. and He, M. 2017. Effect of ocean acidification on growth, calcification, and gene expression in the pearl oyster, Pinctada fucata. Marine Environmental Research 130: 174-180.

Exposed pearl oysters to three pH environments, 8.10, 7.70 and 7.40 with the latter representing what the authors deemed would be an extreme condition (pCO2 of 3000 ppm). They noted that after 42 days there was no difference in mean shell hardness, calcium content or calcification genes and that the oyster would be able to acclimate to low pH long term

Velez, C., Figueira, E., Soares, A.M.V.M. and Freitas, R. 2016. Combined effects of seawater acidification and salinity changes in Ruditapes philippinarum. Aquatic Toxicology 176: 141-150.

Exposed Japenese carpet shell clams to 7.8 and 7.3 ph values for one month. Also altered salinity to 14, 28 and 35 ppt. Found there was no observed change due to pH but that salinity changes could impact it.

Stemmer, K., Nehrke, G. and Brey, T. 2013. Elevated CO2 levels do not affect the shell structure of the bivalve Arctica islandica from the Western Baltic. PLOS One 8: e70106, doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0070106

Looked the Ocean quahog marine bivalve and looked at three different levels of pCO2 (380, 760 and 1120 uatm). After 90 days that the species did not experience significant changes to shell growth in response to pCO2 (hence pH).

Tunnicliffe, V., Davies, K.T.A., Butterfield, D.A., Embley, R.W., Rose, J.M. and Chadwick Jr., W.W. 2009. Survival of mussels in extremely acidic waters on a submarine volcano. Nature Geoscience 10.1038/NGEO500.

In this paper the authors describe large clusters of mussels in sea water pH values of between 5.36 and 7.29 with CO2 being pumped into the system in a hyrdrothermal setting. Basically this species had adapted completely to a very wide range in pH conditions.

Note that a number of these shellfish species have been around for a couple of hundred million years (quahog is an example) which means they evolved in waters with ph below 7.8 so it isn’t surprising their response to changing conditions.

the same published observations are out there for fish, echinoderms, corals, phytoplankton, crustaceans etc.

As with almost all of this there is more than one side to the story.

[dohboi]

Radical warming in Siberia leaves millions on unstable ground

A Washington Post analysis found that the region near the town of Zyryanka, in an enormous wedge of eastern Siberia called Yakutia, has warmed by more than 3 degrees Celsius since preindustrial times — roughly triple the global average.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... e-siberia/

[Plantagenet]

Radical warming in Siberia leaves millions on unstable ground

A Washington Post analysis found that the region near the town of Zyryanka, in an enormous wedge of eastern Siberia called Yakutia, has warmed by more than 3 degrees Celsius since preindustrial times — roughly triple the global average.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... e-siberia/

Thanks very much for posting that link, D.

I went through that area while working on a joint project along the Kolyma River with scientists from Magadan some years ago. It was great to see the photos of the river and the permafrost and the villages and the people of Siberia. It brought back some good memories.

The situation with our permafrost is essentially the same here in central and northern Alaska as it is in Siberia. Huge amounts of CO2 and CH4 are starting to be released as the ground thaws. Its the ultimate positive feedback loop adding to anthropogenic CO2 emissions, as the CO2 and CH4 emitted from thawing permafrost etc. is on a path to surpass the emissions of human generated CO2 and CH4.

Cheers!

[Newfie]

I hope Cyd sees your post.

[derhundistlos]

Outstanding US Naval Academy Presentation:

"Ocean Apocalypse"

by Dr. Jeremy Johnson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zMN3dTvrwY&t=1176s

[derhundistlos]

"and there is no shortage of published research demonstrating the resistance of many species to wide ranges of pH in sea water. Just confining that to shellfish here are a few."

Nevertheless, coral reefs the world around, continue to collapse, die, and never recover. As of today, a staggering 64% of the 133,000 sq. mi. Great Barrier reef has died over the last few years, and the area impacted continues to expand.

Thank goodness there are two sides to the story. We still have plenty of time.

See the "Ocean Apocalypse" presentation above for a scientific consensus on the state of the world's seas.

[EdwinSm]

Almost 400 all-time high temperatures were set in the northern hemisphere over the summer, according to an analysis of temperature records.

The records were broken in 29 countries for the period from 1 May to 30 August this year.

Lest we worry about shoddy data:

The data included measurements from weather stations in the northern hemisphere that had at least 40 years of observations.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49753680

[Kathrynwibly]

A little narrative on a slow weather Sunday. Global warming or what ever you wish to call it probably the biggest pet peeve I have. I used to drink the koolaide back years ago when I was in College. But back then, it was the pending ice age we were all going to create because of pollution. When the so called professionals changed their minds and decided we were gonna cause global warming instead, I began to ask questions. Our atmosphere, weather and climate is a very complex system and we do not understand it to any degree of certainty. Our planet has a long, long history. Over 4 billion years, thats a pretty long time and a lot has happened. We have a natural cycle of warming and cooling, that is a fact. We have had vastly higher levels of CO2 in our atmosphere and believe it or not, the fragile earth did not implode. There is no such thing as static in science, it always changes. Was 2014 the warmest on record since 1880? Who cares? In the past say 500 million years its been a whole lot hotter. Folks, even if we tried, we cannot significantly affect the weather. Its nothing more than a political and more importantly, financial agenda. Its not a win-win for to be pro global warming. WE loose by higher energy costs and people like Al Gore rake in the money, YOUR money. Should we all be good stewards of the environment? Of course, nobody likes pollution, but as an industrial society, it is a necessary evil. If you want to drive a Prius and put solar panels on your house, on your own nickle, have at it. Just remember who is profiting from your decision...

[dohboi]

And...another idiot joins the throng, with the same tired, long-ago-debunked talking points we've all grown so tire of.

You seem to be new, so let me just point out that denialists have their own little thread here: global-warming-climate-change-is-hoax-pt-10-t74241-40.html

Please restrict your ramblings on that front to that thread in the future. Thank you!

[EnergyUnlimited]

Our atmosphere, weather and climate is a very complex system and we do not understand it to any degree of certainty.

Agreed

Our planet has a long, long history. Over 4 billion years, thats a pretty long time and a lot has happened. We have a natural cycle of warming and cooling, that is a fact. We have had vastly higher levels of CO2 in our atmosphere and believe it or not, the fragile earth did not implode.

Very few here are claiming that AGW could cause *life* going extinct.
However it can cause for certain technological civilization going extinct and if events have turned particularly badly human species could also go extinct.
So for example much hotter Carbonian period would not be survivable for humans even if they would breathe easy (35-40% oxygen in air). The same holds true for many other epochs of Earth history.

There is no such thing as static in science, it always changes. Was 2014 the warmest on record since 1880? Who cares? In the past say 500 million years its been a whole lot hotter.

And so what?
These hotter conditions are not survivable for humans.

Folks, even if we tried, we cannot significantly affect the weather.

And yet we are getting there.

Its nothing more than a political and more importantly, financial agenda. Its not a win-win for to be pro global warming. WE loose by higher energy costs and people like Al Gore rake in the money, YOUR money.

So lets pay more. There will be more to enjoy for those who can afford it and rest will be stuffed into cities. Otherwise everything will be turned into a wasteland.

Should we all be good stewards of the environment? Of course, nobody likes pollution, but as an industrial society, it is a necessary evil.

So why not to allow industrial civilization to fail or scale it down enough that its fruits are affordable to ~5% of people?

If you want to drive a Prius and put solar panels on your house, on your own nickle, have at it. Just remember who is profiting from your decision...

Prius is a fad at the moment though PV is profitable to those who invest in it.
In California it is becoming necessity.
Who knows, maybe they will shut down a grid or keep light only few hours a day?
Current blackouts there are unprecedented.

[Newfie]

And...another idiot joins the throng, with the same tired, long-ago-debunked talking points we've all grown so tire of.

You seem to be new, so let me just point out that denialists have their own little thread here: global-warming-climate-change-is-hoax-pt-10-t74241-40.html

Please restrict your ramblings on that front to that thread in the future. Thank you!

Dohboi,

No one has appointed you to any position of authority in this site. So follow the rules.