[Newfie]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

[Ibon]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

That was a good article specifically in how it focuses on being honest. We have discussed here how society at large is not ready to face the truth of whats coming around the corner near to mid term.

If you’re younger than sixty, you have a good chance of witnessing the radical destabilization of life on earth—massive crop failures, apocalyptic fires, imploding economies, epic flooding, hundreds of millions of refugees fleeing regions made uninhabitable by extreme heat or permanent drought. If you’re under thirty, you’re all but guaranteed to witness it.

I regret that I will only witness the opening acts, my daughters will have that pleasure and challenge.

[dohboi]

EU wrote: "Could you explain it for me better?
I do not understand this process.
From what I know, heat transfer from surface layer of ocean to deep water is a very slow process."

currents

[Tanada]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

IMO it is full of muddled thinking for example

In this respect, any movement toward a more just and civil society can now be considered a meaningful climate action. Securing fair elections is a climate action. Combating extreme wealth inequality is a climate action. Shutting down the hate machines on social media is a climate action. Instituting humane immigration policy, advocating for racial and gender equality, promoting respect for laws and their enforcement, supporting a free and independent press, ridding the country of assault weapons—these are all meaningful climate actions.

This is not a list for combating climate change, it is purely left political goals wrapped in a green flag. The author is so trapped in his own ideology that he doesn't even see the inherent conflict between the statement

Shutting down the hate machines on social media is a climate action.

and the phrase

supporting a free and independent press

are ,mutually exclusive. You can not both silence those you disagree with and simultaneously promote a free and open press.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I regret that I will only witness the opening acts, my daughters will have that pleasure and challenge.

Lets hope that your daughters can operate machetas up to an expert level or alternatively are pretty and seductive enough to get protection from local prominent alphas.
Probably they will need to both of these skills anyway for your grandkids to grow to adulthood.

So lets hope that they look like this one:


Btw,
There is nothing to regret here.
Do you really miss to witness yourself Rwanda scenes and dream to be a victim or a perpetrator?
Probably perpetrator at first and victim in next turn of wheel of fortune.

[Newfie]

TANADA,

Yes I picked up on that as well. That there is some bull in the article is evident, it’s that is has far less bull than most other articles.

Not perfect but good.

[Ibon]

TANADA,

Yes I picked up on that as well. That there is some bull in the article is evident, it’s that is has far less bull than most other articles.

Not perfect but good.

Yes we all seem to be honed to zero right in on what is less than perfect. What I accused RocDoc of doing.

When your radar is always tuned into finding the bias you can miss the parts that were addressing something fresh and honest.

I think this orientation to always discount is a convenient way to stay on your high horse which is another way of not moving.

[EnergyUnlimited]

TANADA,

Yes I picked up on that as well. That there is some bull in the article is evident, it’s that is has far less bull than most other articles.

Not perfect but good.

I have noticed that as well. Left propaganda sold as fight against CC.

Here you have a *real* program which would stop generation of greenhouse gases with a hope to stop climate change.

1. Go for global exchange of nuclear EMP charges.
2. Declare all peoples free to do as much evil to others as they please and can manage.
3. Dissolve civil law order and disband law enforcement agencies.
4. Pay $ 20 for a scalp of a refugee, man, woman or a child. At the same time declare everyone to be a refugee.
5. Nuke any surviving pockets of civilization.
6. Make medical care unaffordable and subject it to most brutal market forces. Burn hospitals and kill doctors.
7. Give free guns and ammo to all and provide WMD for highest bidders.
8. Disband education system and burn all libraries.

That is about the only way, how we could prevent our planet from warming more than 2 *C.
And we could also go for a nuclear winter if it did, as a last resort method.

[Ibon]

Old grouchy baby boomers keeping each other company at the po.com cyber old peoples home with their misanthropic sentiments!

With human overshoot all roads lead to Rome. And Rome is that eventual return so some semblance of carrying capacity.

The reason the author mentioned those non energy social issues is because he is suggesting that all of the social imbalances that are coming are ultimately a response to climate change i.e. human overshoot. I think that is correct. Or we take the road Energy Unlimited is suggesting in his last post.

We can choose the high road or the low road.


BY the way, reviewing the paragraph Tanada quoted as leftist, if those items are truly leftist I guess that suggests the following items listed on that paragraph would be topics the political right is against and therefore not universal goals:

Securing fair elections.
Combating extreme wealth inequality
Shutting down the hate machines on social media
Instituting humane immigration policy
promoting respect for laws and their enforcement
supporting a free and independent press

I don't think that is the case. I always thought anyway the political right was all in favor of promoting a respect for laws and their enforcement among the other items above.

Ban on assault weapons and gender and racial equality would be the two items that the political left is more in favor of but even these two items are not solely the domain of the political left.

Just saying

[EnergyUnlimited]

We can choose the high road or the low road.

Ibon,
There is *only* one road. I have specified how it is looking like.
Another (presumably in your expression a "high") road does not exist.
Even author of the article is recognizing it.
He is more after "amelioration of suffering" or rather postponing it into the future.
And there is a high likelihood that in this future suffering is going to be even more intense and there are fewer survivors.

[Ibon]

We can choose the high road or the low road.

Ibon,
There is *only* one road. I have specified how it is looking like.
Another (presumably in your expression a "high") road does not exist.
Even author of the article is recognizing it.
He is more after "amelioration of suffering" or rather postponing it into the future.
And there is a high likelihood that in this future suffering is going to be even more intense and there are fewer survivors.

You misunderstood me when I said the high road. The high road is also full of suffering and hardship.

Humanity can be discarded completely. Inhumanity can be the dominant cultural orientation. That is the low road.

Or we preserve humanity as we move through devastating times. This orientation does not have a political affiliation or an ideological one. That is the high road .

[Ibon]

EU wrote: "Could you explain it for me better?
I do not understand this process.
From what I know, heat transfer from surface layer of ocean to deep water is a very slow process."

currents

Interesting to consider how inter related terrestrial climate is in how it influences marine environments. Every dry season in Central America brings the arrival of the Papagayo Winds. Due to pressure differences between the atlantic and pacific strong winds move westward over the mountain passes sometimes with gusts almost hurricane strength. These winds end up pushing coastal waters out to sea and this results in a circulating current of deep cold oxygen rich waters moving up to the surface. This is one of the reasons the Pacific fisheries is so abundant here in Panama and Costa Rica.

If climate change would alter those winds the pacific fisheries would decline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papagayo_Jet

[Plantagenet]

Interesting to consider how inter related terrestrial climate is in how it influences marine environments. Every dry season in Central America brings the arrival of the Papagayo Winds. Due to pressure differences between the atlantic and pacific strong winds move westward over the mountain passes sometimes with gusts almost hurricane strength. These winds end up pushing coastal waters out to sea and this results in a circulating current of deep cold oxygen rich waters moving up to the surface. This is one of the reasons the Pacific fisheries is so abundant here in Panama and Costa Rica.

If climate change would alter those winds the pacific fisheries would decline.

Its the opposite up here in Alaska. The ocean temperatures around Alaska strongly influence our terrestrial climate.

Right now the oceans all around Alaska are much warmer then normal. Its part of the "blob" of warm water in the eastern Pacific. Having warmer then usual water around Alaska means the sea ice in the Bering Sea doesn't form until late...maybe not until mid-November. And even in the Arctic Ocean we've got maybe 500 miles of ocean along the north coast of Alaska where until recently we had sea ice almost right up on the coast all summer. Until the sea ice forms, Alaska is just a big peninsula sticking out into the ocean and the temperatures we are seeing right now are waaaaaaaay above normal. We've still got forest fires burning, which is unheard of, the days are sunny are pleasant, and the thermometer is supposed to hit 70 this week.


The "blob" is back....and the oceans around Alaska are warmer then ever....

[Newfie]

Ibon,

Apparently the sage advice for sailing that coast is to keep one foot on the shore OR stay 100 miles off shore, because of these compression zones you mention.

[asg70]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

IMO it is full of muddled thinking for example

In this respect, any movement toward a more just and civil society can now be considered a meaningful climate action.

Yep. It's an ideological trojan-horse. It's also part of the same sort of magical thinking that the transition-town movement engages in. When the going gets rough, people are far more likely to fight than to work together. This will especially be true in the case of wave upon wave of climate refugees. Once people really register that we're on a downward spiral with starvation as the endpoint you won't see anything other than lifeboat ethics. Compassion and generosity are a luxury of prosperity/surplus and therefore its days are numbered.

gender and racial equality

The SJW woke era that we're in now is a sign of peak prosperity as it is a fixation on the very top of maslow's hierarchy of needs. Nobody's going to give a rat's ass about gender pronouns or unisex bathrooms or female Thor and black Little Mermaids when there isn't enough food to go around. Part of dealing with these issues is to recognize the above and focus on essentials of survival rather than protecting fragile snowflake safe-spaces.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Yep. It's an ideological trojan-horse. It's also part of the same sort of magical thinking that the transition-town movement engages in. When the going gets rough, people are far more likely to fight than to work together. This will especially be true in the case of wave upon wave of climate refugees. Once people really register that we're on a downward spiral with starvation as the endpoint you won't see anything other than lifeboat ethics. Compassion and generosity are a luxury of prosperity/surplus and therefore its days are numbered.

This is all true with one important exception.
White race indulged in political correctness, glutony and decadence will commit suicide and surrender its land and women to invaders, its wealth to banksters and its asses to gays.

The SJW woke era that we're in now is a sign of peak prosperity as it is a fixation on the very top of maslow's hierarchy of needs. Nobody's going to give a rat's ass about gender pronouns or unisex bathrooms or female Thor and black Little Mermaids when there isn't enough food to go around. Part of dealing with these issues is to recognize the above and focus on essentials of survival rather than protecting fragile snowflake safe-spaces.

You are wrong.
You do not understand concept of *system inertia*.
My bet is that before SJW mindset is changed into something useful and retarded generations of Millenials and their kids are replaced by more resourceful, physically fitter and war worthy peoples, white race will be a done deal.
I am over 50.
Few weeks ago I went to street argument with 2 superficially strong looking guys in their 20-ties.
Both crushed without producing meaningful resistence. No strenght, no stamina, no resolve, no perseverance in fight. Just tatooed muscles pumped up for show.
Their only strenght was in mouth. Shame on them. And I am by no means a strongman.
Our sons are not soldiers.
They are c**ts.

[dissident]

It does not matter what future generations and current children will do. They are royally screwed since the "more sober" generations drank the koolaid that the planet is an infinite resource pool and pollution toilet. Now those chickens are coming home to roost in rapidly increasing numbers. No amount of physical and mental fortitude is going to save humanity. A totally exogenous reset is coming. The survivors are going to have to basically start from scratch.

[Ibon]

Their only strenght was in mouth. .

This line struck me as highly relevant.

Living in a rural agrarian frontier location we are still in communion with folks who are actively farming with techniques where physical labor is still required, doing construction mixing cement with a shovel in a wheel barrow, processing blocks of wood with a chain saw. Being out of doors all day long in their work when we invite them for lunch they pile on the food of rice and beans and fried bananas with some fatty fried pork and ask for seconds because their bodies are asking for the calories to replace what they burned during the morning.

The one muscle you don't see these folks using very much is their mouth muscle. These are mountain folks of few words. Urban visitors who come here, cerebral birdwatchers and such, may come to the conclusion that these folks aren't well learned and don't have much to say. They confuse their silence with ignorance.

I don't know how many times during the past 10 years of living here that after a lunch with our rural staff and neighbors, a conversation would start, for example, how the young generation are addicted to their cell phones, and this would lead to an in depth analysis and wander to the state of the world and how out of balance things are. Suddenly these rural folks of few words reveal their deeper thoughts and I don't know how many times I have been amazed at the level of awareness and intelligence that these conversations generate. You know, the guy mixing cement in a wheel barrow all morning long, his clothes with holes and stained gray with splashes of cement, gnarly callous hands, expressing his dismay at the state of the world and how his own children have wandered off to Panama City leaving behind this rural life.

What you notice is that these folks are not angry. They may be dismayed, but they are not full of rage. They may be voting for the conservative or liberal party here in Panama during elections but they are still on speaking terms and good friends with others who vote the opposite party. Interesting.

The point I am making with this is that the folks most locked into the political polarity, the most outraged, the ones barking the loudest, whether it is someone on the left virtue signalling or someone on the right spewing anti immigrant hatred, what they both have deeply in common is a lack of physical work, a lack of exercise. An overexposure to the constant drone of the media and social media.

I am not finished. Many of you guys here on this site are all part of that larger tribe of under exercised, flabby, over cerebral, over stimulated neurologically with cyber bullshit, overly exposed to media, overly saturated with the latest outrageous thing Trump has done or outraged over the latest transgender genital surgery.

If it isn't the mouth muscle then it is the digital fingers typing away at how we are fast heading toward the apocalypse.

I do it also, most mornings. But I close this laptop and go out the door to an immense wilderness and work outdoors for the rest of the day. Come back in the evening to touch base again and see who responded here or who has something interesting to add. Between my posts are long hours outside working in the greenhouse, walking the trails, digging holes or whatever.

I have to sign off now and go outside. Just take one point from this long rant.

THOSE BARKING THE LOUDEST AND MOST POLARIZED AND MOST ANGRY AND OUTRAGED ARE THOSE WHO ARE NOT MOVING THEIR BODIES, NOT SPENDING TIME OUT DOORS, ARE OVERLY SATURATED WITH THE MEDIA AND THE NEWS.

Many of you here on this site.

It's strange, I always notice when I over saturate myself with how fucked up everything is that the world doesn't quite seem so bleak after hiking 4 miles in the wilderness.

Do you guys realize how much of your world view is skewed and warped because of how little you move your bodies and how little you spend in the wide open spaces.... myopic and overly focused on these fucked up digital screens.

Carry on.

[asg70]

There is a life-stages aspect of this.

I think politics is the domain of young adults just starting out in life (i.e. SJWs) and older adults but it's those in the prime of life who are more self-oriented insofar as getting things done.

Whether you're laying bricks or apprenticing as a stock-broker, you're more concerned with building your career than what's happening around the world.

This is also why politicians tend to skew older, because it's only after you've been to the mountaintop and back can you begin to focus on larger issues.

Where things have maybe changed of late is that the more people slack off, where they are in boring careers that don't stimulate them, the mind wanders. So the "prime years" have sort of folded inward. The under-employed in their mid to late 20s have a lot of time to kill.

That being said, tending your own garden, while good for the psyche, is almost a perfect description of tragedy of the commons.

We NEED people to think more holistically, more about system-theory. Those noble salt of the earth in Panama aren't doing it, and even if they're not living 1st world lifestyles, they still do their small part to maintain BAU. So there's no reason to glamorize this as it leads to us simply fumbling forward without being able to see 2" in front of our faces. That is a shocking waste of human potential.

[Ibon]

We NEED people to think more holistically, more about system-theory. Those noble salt of the earth in Panama aren't doing it, and even if they're not living 1st world lifestyles, they still do their small part to maintain BAU. So there's no reason to glamorize this as it leads to us simply fumbling forward without being able to see 2" in front of our faces. That is a shocking waste of human potential.

It's less about glamorizing them and more to point out that they are not polarized and not angry.
They will tend to tow the line with where BAU is going so yes they are not representing any solution. Their children anyway are not following their footsteps, they are joining the cyber parade!

Where this is highly relevant and if you want to see any holistic thinking then we have to get folks moving more, physically engaged. Not on their fucking computers. That is what these rural folks are telling me anyway.

I believe we will see zero, zilch, no movement until the house of cards falls and people are forced to return to a way powered down lifestyle.

Yeah, those transgenders are not going to be thinking about mutilating their genitals when the going gets tough. Those MAGA hats are going to look pretty faded when stoking grievances are coming up empty in terms of providing any real meaningful changes. What we are seeing now is the rage and anger of bored opulence. Folks feeling things are not going well and sensing the corruption and decadence of death of a dying paradigm but not yet hurting. And spending way too much fucking time tethered to digital media and media in general.

In other words, Does it hurt yet?

Consequences are the portal through which survivors will grow a spine and those that don't will perish.

Anyone really believe that this is not the direction we are heading?

I agree with EU on this point.

P.S. I am still on the computer mid day today.... booking keeping day, once a month.... I hate it but one has to render into Caesar etc. .........