[jupiters_release]

Obviously I don’t agree with Roc in the CC issue but he and I largely agree that we need to limit fossil fuel use.

Many of the actions we want to see taken have multiple reasons for that action.

You don't believe in global dimming effect of fossil fuel use?

Too late to stop this extinction, you'll feel better when you move pass the bargaining phase.

I'm all for stopping the geoengineering/annihilation of the atmosphere though for health reasons while we're still alive.

[Newfie]

I don’t believe I mentioned global dimming at all.

[jupiters_release]

I don’t believe I mentioned global dimming at all.

Limiting fossil fuels reduces the negative feedback of dimming!

[onlooker]

I don’t believe I mentioned global dimming at all.

Limiting fossil fuels reduces the negative feedback of dimming!

Yes, some like Guy say economic collapse and consequent cleaner air, would then almost immediately cause a rise of a few degrees in global temps. That would be disasterous

[Newfie]

Obviously I don’t agree with Roc in the CC issue but he and I largely agree that we need to limit fossil fuel use.

Many of the actions we want to see taken have multiple reasons for that action.

You don't believe in global dimming effect of fossil fuel use?

Too late to stop this extinction, you'll feel better when you move pass the bargaining phase.

I'm all for stopping the geoengineering/annihilation of the atmosphere though for health reasons while we're still alive.

I still don’t get the reference to dimming. I understand it and accept it will occur. And I’m no fan of geoengineering, i am arguing for power down.

And I think I was pretty clear that I think we are running on luck at this point. Not sure if I made that in this thread or another so I’ll repeat here.

IMHO we are running a near thing on extinction, it strikes me as inevitable that human population will shrink to a billion or under, I’m less sure about extinction. There are so many variables that it is impossible to make such claims with certainty. Who knows maybe we will get lucky and be hit by a big asteroid or take a killer virus or something else that stops our culture and keeps up from self extinction.

I believe it’s a good thing to be prepared to take advantage of luck when it arrives. It does no harm. In this case it may extend humanities stay a generation or two. Mass population loss may be without 2-3 generation, extinction is probably 200-300 years in the future. A lot can happen in 200-300 years, good and bad.

I see no advantage to publishing our species obituary yet.

[dissident]

While the deck chairs are being re-arranged on the global Titanic (e.g. discussions ad nauseam about hard facts that cannot be challenged) we are getting set for a massive surge of warming:

1) The ocean heat sink that has been effectively hiding the warming signal for 200 years is in transition to a regime where the surface layer will warm while the colder deep waters are no longer able to buffer the heat.

2) Aerosol effects that are related to the cloud albedo dimming effect during the 1960s and 1970s are going to come out of the closet. Biomass burning is increasing and the smoke acts as a warming agent. The issue is not the cooling underneath a smoke plume, it is the heat trapping by the smoke particles via solar radiation absorption and the persistent of this effect even when the plume disperses into a background. We saw the milky skies not associated with rain and low pressure systems last year. That white haze is a greenhouse "gas" that traps IR in the troposphere. Cloud scavenging is less effective as temperatures increase since more water can remain in the vapour phase and cloud condensation is reduced.

It is likely that we will see a surge of 1 C global warming in a very short period of time (e.g. a decade) in the near future. The fun is only just getting started.

[dohboi]

Ocean acidification could reduce the transport of carbon to the bottom of the ocean and carbon absorption capacity of the ocean:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 082319.php

The oceans act as a carbon sink and have already absorbed more than 40% of anthropogenic carbon emissions. The majority of this CO2 has been taken up by the Southern Ocean making these waters hotspots of ocean acidification (OA).

Lead author of the paper published in Nature Climate Change, Dr Katherina Petrou from the University of Technology Sydney, said that although changes in ocean pH have been shown to impact marine calcifying organisms, the consequences for non-calcifying marine phytoplankton are less clear.
"Previous studies reported a range of responses to OA [in phytoplankton] yet rarely considered how environmental pH shifts might affect silicification rates in diatoms," she says.

"Diatoms are unique phytoplankton in that they need silicic acid to produce silica cell walls. Under the microscope they look like beautiful glass jewellery boxes, but importantly, this dense, glass-like armour promotes sinking, which makes diatoms an important conduit for transport of carbon to the deep ocean where it can be stored for millennia."

Diatoms are responsible for around 40% of ocean productivity which means they play a major role in supporting marine food webs, sustaining life for millions of creatures, including humans.

The research was carried out the Australian Antarctic base, Davis station, by a team of scientists from the University of Technology Sydney (UTS), Southern Cross University (SCU), the Australian Antarctic Division (AAD) and the University of Tasmania. Using large 650 L experimental tanks, a temperature controlled 40-foot container and natural coastal water, their research was designed to investigate the effects of predicted future changes in ocean acidity on the community structure of the Antarctic phytoplankton.

"We were alarmed to find that diatoms were so negatively affected, with some species likely to have diminished silica production before the end of this century," says Dr Petrou.

In the context of global climate change, these findings are important because they reveal that OA can not only alter phytoplankton community composition, but also reduce diatom ballast (sinking ability), adds SCU based Kai Schulz. Loss of silica production and thus ballast could mean that fewer diatoms end up on the ocean floor, resulting in less atmospheric CO2 being removed from our atmosphere and transported for storage in the deep ocean.

"The only genuine way to circumvent this outcome, is to cut our greenhouse gas emissions and limit the acidification of our oceans," the researchers say. "

[Whitefang]

Interesting flix on the net, Geostorm 2017 blockbuster…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOlYPSEzSc, trailer teaser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostorm

Geostorm is a 2017 American science fiction disaster film directed, co-written, and co-produced by Dean Devlin in his feature film directorial debut. The film stars Gerard Butler, Jim Sturgess, Ed Harris, Abbie Cornish, Richard Schiff, Alexandra Maria Lara, Robert Sheehan, Daniel Wu, Eugenio Derbez, and Andy García. The plot follows a satellite designer who tries to save the world from a storm of epic proportions caused by malfunctioning climate-controlling satellites.
Principal photography began on October 20, 2014, in New Orleans, Louisiana. After poor test screenings, re-shoots took place in December 2016 under executive producer Jerry Bruckheimer, writer Laeta Kalogridis and new director Danny Cannon.[5] The film is the first co-production between Skydance Media and Warner Bros. The film was released by Warner Bros. in the United States on October 20, 2017, in 2D, Real D 3D and IMAX 3D. Despite grossing $221 million worldwide the film was labeled a box office bomb given its $120 million budget, losing the studio $74 million,[6] and received negative reviews, with criticism focused on the "uninspiring" story and "lackluster" visual effects.[7]

In 2019, following many catastrophic natural disasters, an international coalition commissions a system of climate-controlling satellites called "Dutch Boy", named after the story of Hans Brinker. After Dutch Boy neutralizes a typhoon in Shanghai, a Senate sub-committee reprimands chief architect Jake Lawson, because he brought "Dutch Boy" online (without authorization) and replaces him with his brother Max, who works under Secretary of State Leonard Dekkom.
Three years later, a UN team stationed in the Registan Desert comes across a frozen village. Makmoud Habib, an Indian engineer working on the International Climate Space Station (ICSS), copies data from the Afghanistan satellite onto a hard drive before being unexpectedly ejected into space. After convincing President Andrew Palma to conduct an investigation, Max persuades Jake to go to the ICSS to investigate. Another satellite increases temperatures in Hong Kong, causing gas explosions that nearly kill Max's college friend Cheng Long, the head of Dutch Boy's Hong Kong department.
Jake arrives at ICSS to examine the malfunctioning satellites (which are damaged afterwards and their data erased) with station commander Ute Fassbinder and her crew. They recover the hard drive, but hide it from the crew, suspecting a traitor, and examine the data, discovering that a virus has wiped out everyone's login access to the satellite and is causing the malfunctions. Suspecting Palma is using Dutch Boy as a weapon, Jake tells Max he needs to reboot the system to eliminate the virus which requires the kill code held by Palma. The ICSS staff neutralize malfunctioning satellites by deliberately knocking them offline via collisions with replacement satellites.
Back on Earth, Cheng discovers he and Max have lost login access and warns Max of a global cataclysm known as a "Geostorm" if the malfunction continues. Cheng is pursued to Washington, D.C. by a team of rogue government agents, who ultimately cause his death in a traffic incident, but not before he says "Zeus". Discovering Project Zeus simulates extreme weather patterns to create a Geostorm, Max enlists his girlfriend, Secret Service agent Sarah Wilson, to acquire the code.
During the Democratic National Convention (DNC) at Orlando's Moxley Arena, Max discovers Orlando is next to be targeted after a massive hailstorm hits Tokyo and part of Rio de Janeiro freezes over.
The ICSS team loses control of all operations as the virus initiates the self-destruct program. As more disasters strike around the world (including tornadoes in Mumbai, a heatwave in Moscow and a megatsunami in Dubai), Jake realizes Duncan is the traitor. In the ensuing confrontation, Duncan accidentally ejects himself into space while Jake escapes. As the crew evacuates, Jake stays behind to ensure the reboot completes.

Surely all science and fiction but are we not watching a script? Ali baba beats Pentagon?
G5 network has thousands of cheap 1 million dollar satellites orbiting the lower stratosphere, DNC is part of the play, treason and murder, genocidal maniacs, secret service shite, you name it. I think we are being groomed to accept our Smart Cities, our high tech prisons, a prison planet.
Skydance and Warner Bro's…….military planning a worldwide disaster, create problem, offer solution.
See, they did not expect Trump to win...twice and push them over the brink, forever.
Them party people, got careless, thought they could get away with everything, not anymore, Thank God, thanks to patriots, thank true parents.
What was Nexia cult? Child sex torture and murder, Hollywood elite, actors......ask Jim C. on his experience, he came out.
16000 members, dozens of convictions and lawsuits, with proof and testimonies.
Epstein case, 100 times that.

Anyway, deepstate were fully aware of abrupt CC since DoD Shakova presentation 2010, so they try implement their Global domination idiocy within a last panic mode of conduct before they get caught and banned or sacked or jailed or killed.
It is all falling apart for them, their weapons are being turned upon themselves, they will have nowhere to go, maybe some shelter up the antarctic peninsula if some make it across from Patagonia....bbbbrrrr
Hitler gang worked for them so they will have strong ties to where they went underground, our Royalty is tied to Argentina mob.

Is it not funny that we humans have such problems to go back to the moon? Stanly K. made fine pics and video in Africa...….fake news.
We have all been brought up in a fantasy world.
There is no way to know this if you have heard one side of the story all your life.
But is you are one of the writers, you should pay for the damage that you have caused to woman and children.
I am connected with drug lords, families that do business, there are things you do not do, no woman, no children.
Remind me of Leon, hitman taking care of hitgirl that later played in V for Vendetta as Eve.

Basicly everyone is fighting his own internal war in a personal world, two worlds I might say, a bit more accurate.
Oppressors and Oppressed will meet the same end, better leave them be.
Not to search, reach out for the spirit is to seek death which is nothing.
You need experience, personal power to move around beyond the barrier of perception we take for granted.
Problem is you die with your total being, physical you mind body and person in this perception and that other one, the luminous magical part that lives aware of you as a personality but has the option to go for the holy grail, be unified with you at death when the two meet.
Normal people under the reign of fear, our first enemy, die with a moment of freedom but cannot keep themselves together at the dark sea of awareness, you cannot swim into the deep ocean, huge waves....if you never learned this in your lifetime.

Tragic, you have all this power at you fingertips but you not dare use it.
We keep our shields, whatever we do and think, keeping us quiet and masters of the universe, the part we have words for, the little part of being.
Comes in tree flavours, bully sheep and preacher. One size fits all of humanity as we know it.
The only way to get stronger is to let go of our internal dialogue and see for yourself.
Now we all have to let go within one or two generations, maybe three, 30 to 50 years from now.
When the going gets tough…….
We have to change now, it is no option anymore.

[EnergyUnlimited]

While the deck chairs are being re-arranged on the global Titanic (e.g. discussions ad nauseam about hard facts that cannot be challenged) we are getting set for a massive surge of warming:

1) The ocean heat sink that has been effectively hiding the warming signal for 200 years is in transition to a regime where the surface layer will warm while the colder deep waters are no longer able to buffer the heat.

Could you explain it for me better?
I do not understand this process.
From what I know, heat transfer from surface layer of ocean to deep water is a very slow process.
How "abrupt transition" could happen?
Why surface waters were failing to warm appropriately until this transition?
It is an interesting subject.

[Newfie]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

[Ibon]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

That was a good article specifically in how it focuses on being honest. We have discussed here how society at large is not ready to face the truth of whats coming around the corner near to mid term.

If you’re younger than sixty, you have a good chance of witnessing the radical destabilization of life on earth—massive crop failures, apocalyptic fires, imploding economies, epic flooding, hundreds of millions of refugees fleeing regions made uninhabitable by extreme heat or permanent drought. If you’re under thirty, you’re all but guaranteed to witness it.

I regret that I will only witness the opening acts, my daughters will have that pleasure and challenge.

[dohboi]

EU wrote: "Could you explain it for me better?
I do not understand this process.
From what I know, heat transfer from surface layer of ocean to deep water is a very slow process."

currents

[Tanada]

A pretty decent article in Atlantic acknowledging run away warming.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... pretending

IMO it is full of muddled thinking for example

In this respect, any movement toward a more just and civil society can now be considered a meaningful climate action. Securing fair elections is a climate action. Combating extreme wealth inequality is a climate action. Shutting down the hate machines on social media is a climate action. Instituting humane immigration policy, advocating for racial and gender equality, promoting respect for laws and their enforcement, supporting a free and independent press, ridding the country of assault weapons—these are all meaningful climate actions.

This is not a list for combating climate change, it is purely left political goals wrapped in a green flag. The author is so trapped in his own ideology that he doesn't even see the inherent conflict between the statement

Shutting down the hate machines on social media is a climate action.

and the phrase

supporting a free and independent press

are ,mutually exclusive. You can not both silence those you disagree with and simultaneously promote a free and open press.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I regret that I will only witness the opening acts, my daughters will have that pleasure and challenge.

Lets hope that your daughters can operate machetas up to an expert level or alternatively are pretty and seductive enough to get protection from local prominent alphas.
Probably they will need to both of these skills anyway for your grandkids to grow to adulthood.

So lets hope that they look like this one:


Btw,
There is nothing to regret here.
Do you really miss to witness yourself Rwanda scenes and dream to be a victim or a perpetrator?
Probably perpetrator at first and victim in next turn of wheel of fortune.

[Newfie]

TANADA,

Yes I picked up on that as well. That there is some bull in the article is evident, it’s that is has far less bull than most other articles.

Not perfect but good.

[Ibon]

TANADA,

Yes I picked up on that as well. That there is some bull in the article is evident, it’s that is has far less bull than most other articles.

Not perfect but good.

Yes we all seem to be honed to zero right in on what is less than perfect. What I accused RocDoc of doing.

When your radar is always tuned into finding the bias you can miss the parts that were addressing something fresh and honest.

I think this orientation to always discount is a convenient way to stay on your high horse which is another way of not moving.

[EnergyUnlimited]

TANADA,

Yes I picked up on that as well. That there is some bull in the article is evident, it’s that is has far less bull than most other articles.

Not perfect but good.

I have noticed that as well. Left propaganda sold as fight against CC.

Here you have a *real* program which would stop generation of greenhouse gases with a hope to stop climate change.

1. Go for global exchange of nuclear EMP charges.
2. Declare all peoples free to do as much evil to others as they please and can manage.
3. Dissolve civil law order and disband law enforcement agencies.
4. Pay $ 20 for a scalp of a refugee, man, woman or a child. At the same time declare everyone to be a refugee.
5. Nuke any surviving pockets of civilization.
6. Make medical care unaffordable and subject it to most brutal market forces. Burn hospitals and kill doctors.
7. Give free guns and ammo to all and provide WMD for highest bidders.
8. Disband education system and burn all libraries.

That is about the only way, how we could prevent our planet from warming more than 2 *C.
And we could also go for a nuclear winter if it did, as a last resort method.

[Ibon]

Old grouchy baby boomers keeping each other company at the po.com cyber old peoples home with their misanthropic sentiments!

With human overshoot all roads lead to Rome. And Rome is that eventual return so some semblance of carrying capacity.

The reason the author mentioned those non energy social issues is because he is suggesting that all of the social imbalances that are coming are ultimately a response to climate change i.e. human overshoot. I think that is correct. Or we take the road Energy Unlimited is suggesting in his last post.

We can choose the high road or the low road.


BY the way, reviewing the paragraph Tanada quoted as leftist, if those items are truly leftist I guess that suggests the following items listed on that paragraph would be topics the political right is against and therefore not universal goals:

Securing fair elections.
Combating extreme wealth inequality
Shutting down the hate machines on social media
Instituting humane immigration policy
promoting respect for laws and their enforcement
supporting a free and independent press

I don't think that is the case. I always thought anyway the political right was all in favor of promoting a respect for laws and their enforcement among the other items above.

Ban on assault weapons and gender and racial equality would be the two items that the political left is more in favor of but even these two items are not solely the domain of the political left.

Just saying

[EnergyUnlimited]

We can choose the high road or the low road.

Ibon,
There is *only* one road. I have specified how it is looking like.
Another (presumably in your expression a "high") road does not exist.
Even author of the article is recognizing it.
He is more after "amelioration of suffering" or rather postponing it into the future.
And there is a high likelihood that in this future suffering is going to be even more intense and there are fewer survivors.

[Ibon]

We can choose the high road or the low road.

Ibon,
There is *only* one road. I have specified how it is looking like.
Another (presumably in your expression a "high") road does not exist.
Even author of the article is recognizing it.
He is more after "amelioration of suffering" or rather postponing it into the future.
And there is a high likelihood that in this future suffering is going to be even more intense and there are fewer survivors.

You misunderstood me when I said the high road. The high road is also full of suffering and hardship.

Humanity can be discarded completely. Inhumanity can be the dominant cultural orientation. That is the low road.

Or we preserve humanity as we move through devastating times. This orientation does not have a political affiliation or an ideological one. That is the high road .