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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 13 Jul 2019, 13:11:19

dolanbaker wrote:... ass....


Your potty mouth is overflowing. You appear to have caught the dreaded ad hom disease from another poster. Please flush and then disinfect.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 13 Jul 2019, 17:03:56

Plant's attempt to look above the fray while passive-aggressive-trolling continues apace.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 13 Jul 2019, 17:55:32

asg70 wrote:...trolling continues apace....


Thats what I'm trying to get people to stop.

There are too many people who come here mainly to insult, swear at, and attack other posters, i.e. act like mindless trolls.

In the old days various people made interesting and information-rich posts at this site that contained links and news and quotes and opinions and data. There were a number of posters who would engage in actual discussions about the various issues raised in the information-rich posts.

Now If I make a post with links and news and information, the only response is potty mouthed attacks laced with swear words. I ask one poster not to swear and attack and a second poster swears and attacks. And I can always count on asg/mos/ennui---the only person ever banned from site three times for trolling----to chime in with his/her name calling.

So my one information-rich post has engendered two potty mouthed attacks complete with obscenities and the usual ad homs and trolling from asg/mos/ennui.

Lets do the math. That makes it 100% ad hom attacks from 3 different trolls, most complete with obscenities, in response to a simple news story I linked to. Not one of the trolls made any attempt to discuss the news story I posted about. Their only purpose here was to post obscene ad hom attacks, i.e. to troll

Its sad really. We've gotten to the point here at peakoil.com where there are fewer people discussing things then there are trolls mindlessly attacking the people who want to discuss things.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby GHung » Sat 13 Jul 2019, 18:40:27

A "discussion" involves considering both sides of an argument rather than jamming the forum with one cherry-picked side while ignoring any countering/balancing information that puts things in context. Have some Teslas (and other EVs) had problems with battery fires? Yes. Have many ICE vehicles had problems catching fire, along with slews of other endangering issues that resulted in recalls, lawsuits, and bad publicity? Absolutely. I have yet see you acknowledge that. That is also the definition of "troll"; someone who jams a discussion full of one-sided, out-of-context arguments while excluding/ignoring others' arguments, and throwing a lot of patronizing dribble on top.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 14 Jul 2019, 05:01:04

Plantagenet wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:... ass....


Your potty mouth is overflowing. You appear to have caught the dreaded ad hom disease from another poster. Please flush and then disinfect.

Cheers!

No Need, you've been as stubborn as a mule over the past few EV threads.
If there were any serious issues with EV batteries, Norway would be reporting then in their hundreds as the country with the largest EV penetration on the planet due to tax incentives nearly 50% of all new vehicles sold there are electric.
https://www.thelocal.no/20190404/reveal ... e-electric
Electric cars for the first time accounted for more than half of new cars in Norway in March, official data showed on Monday, as deliveries of pre-ordered Tesla Model 3s started rolling in.

Of the 18,375 new vehicles registered in March in the country 10,728, or 58.4 percent were electric cars, according to the OFV Advisory Council for Road Traffic in Norway.

Electric cars have been popular in the Nordic country for years, but the March numbers indicated a sharp increase compared to the previous month, when the share of electric cars was about 40 percent.

I suspect that as the transition is still fairly recent that the total number of electric vehicles is still a quite low percentage of the total vehicle fleet at this time.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 14 Jul 2019, 05:58:34

Plant, I'm calling you out over your attitude with EVs.

I know you are no fanboy of EV technology. However, they do have one sterling attribute, especially when a person has their own personal renewable energy power plant.

When gasoline escalates through $5/g to $25/g to $100/g, you can still "fill up" your EV for an amount that a Middle Class person can afford to pay out.

It's happening. Summertime fuel prices on Nantucket regularly dance around $5, and I remember paying $5.659/g in San Jose over a decade ago.

I admit that you have made valid points about the hazards of EVs, which actually are not so much unknown as they are statisticly uncertain. It could hardly be otherwise when ICE vehicles comprise the 95+% share of all vehicles, and EVs are a tiny share. However, with 100's of thousands of EVs and PHEVs on the road, you can reliably say that they are already safer than ICE vehicles with their flammable fuels and fuel leaks and hot exhausts and electrical system faults.

This particular stubborn, conservative, and technology-obsessed retired EE is buying an EV as his next vehicle purchase. That does not mean that I will not also retain the paid-off 2003 Jeep Wrangler or the paid-off 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee as long as I can afford to fuel them.
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Both of those Jeeps will be maintained and used by me until I can no longer afford fuel, and probably long after that. Even at $100/g, there are places Jeeps can go - like the remote beaches and dunes of Nantucket - that EVs optimized for road travel would suck at.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 14 Jul 2019, 07:28:12

Yes EVs are going to be everywhere in the not too distant future, even off road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quYwo48pr2s
You could always deICE the jeeps if you want to as well, plenty of parts are slowly becoming available as mass produced EVs are crashed and become uneconomical to repair.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 14 Jul 2019, 11:45:18

KaiserJeep wrote:Plant.....I admit that you have made valid points about the hazards of EVs, which actually are not so much unknown as they are statisticly uncertain. It could hardly be otherwise when ICE vehicles comprise the 95+% share of all vehicles, and EVs are a tiny share.


Thank you. You are a man of discernment and intelligence.

KaiserJeep wrote:This particular stubborn, conservative, and technology-obsessed retired EE is buying an EV as his next vehicle purchase. That does not mean that I will not also retain the paid-off 2003 Jeep Wrangler or the paid-off 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee as long as I can afford to fuel them.


Good for you. Please keep us updated when it gets to be time for you to make an EV purchase.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 14 Jul 2019, 11:55:00

Harley Davidson has finally gone into production on its EV motorcycle---the Livewire.

Harley Davidson EV motorcycle

They're pricing it at 30K, which seems a bit steep but the specs are outrageous. No word yet on whether or not it will be equipped with enormous loudspeakers to rumble out the classic trademarked and copyrighted Harley Davidson sound....po ta to po ta to po ta to.

Or if it will only emit a high pitched whine like an oversized mosquito eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! The new sound of the Harley Davidson Livewire
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 19 Jul 2019, 11:37:50

10 years ago, Cessna made noise about an all electric version of the 172. What has happened since then? Nothing.

They made a big splash before that about a Turbo Diesel version too. That never happened either.

So whats really happening?

General Aviation = Bankrupt
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:04:01

Plantagenet wrote:Harley Davidson has finally gone into production on its EV motorcycle---the Livewire.

They're pricing it at 30K, which seems a bit steep but the specs are outrageous.

Well, as far as range, yeah, it's outrageous for $30,000.

With under 150 city, and under 100 miles range highway / stop / start combined (which to me implies WELL under 100 miles range highway).

I've read some comment strings on articles discussing this cycle in recent months, and a primary theme is that NO WAY are lots of people going to pay $30Kish for a Harley that doesn't even have a reasonable cruisng range.

As limiting as the range on current generation EV cars is, there is a world of difference between about 250 miles and under 100 miles.

And real world, on the highway in the cold of winter, we're probably talking more like 60ish miles, for "only" $30K.

As frequently occurs in discussions with Tesla fans -- there's a LOT more to vehicle stats than a fast 0-60 times for a huge proportion of the buying public.

At $10K to $12K and a real world 250 to 300 mile highway range (not this "combined" nonsense because they don't want to state the actual highway range), I suspect they'll have something with lots of demand. But they're a LONG way from range and cost specs like that.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:10:06

StarvingLion wrote:General Aviation = Bankrupt

What does a motorcycle have to do with general aviation?

When all the airlines go bankrupt and one can no longer fly commercially, be SURE and let us know. Meanwhile, in this thing called the "real world", general aviation miles have been trending up for decades, for both the US and globally.

...

The world isn't "Top Gun", with fighter pilots riding their fast bikes to the airfield, you know. 8O
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:11:53

When gasoline escalates through $5/g to $25/g to $100/g, you can still "fill up" your EV for an amount that a Middle Class person can afford to pay out.


Suuuure, you will.

Lets see, this fruitcake actually believes the power will still be on, when the gas pumps go dry. And the price will never go up because it can't. This entire braindead shit parade is impossible without gasoline being "priced" way below cost. And the scum at the bankrupt "Federal" "Reserve" can jerk off about their fantasy world of negative labor rates, a trillion solar panels that work for less than 6 months, and billion dollar "dream" homes. It don't matter one iota.

You ass clowns and your mass electrification horseshit make me laugh. I would rather talk with a cigar smoking wombat than take your "technology obsessed" drivel seriously.

Father Kaiserjeep still hasn't figured out that he's broke and will be jumping off a bridge by 2025.
Last edited by StarvingLion on Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:21:37, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:16:54

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
StarvingLion wrote:General Aviation = Bankrupt

What does a motorcycle have to do with general aviation?

When all the airlines go bankrupt and one can no longer fly commercially, be SURE and let us know. Meanwhile, in this thing called the "real world", general aviation miles have been trending up for decades, for both the US and globally.

...

The world isn't "Top Gun", with fighter pilots riding their fast bikes to the airfield, you know. 8O


This is an electric vehicle thread. I didn't quote or make reference to the motorcycle at all.

Show me the Electric Cessna 172 as proof of the validity of electric personal transport.

You cannot, and you never will. The very concept of Battery cannot possibly ever work in replacing the C172 in-line 4 cylinder ICE.

The only thing you're good at is being a Buy Japan Fanboy and tossing your used Depends Undergarments in the Dumpster. By 2025, you won't need taking off your depends because you will be going into the Dumpster along with it.
Last edited by StarvingLion on Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:52:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 19 Jul 2019, 12:41:33

VW has a big challenge ahead in securing battery supply but its moves of late at least reinforce the idea that they are dead serious in scaling out.


They will surely be dead if they actually carry through which they won't. Its just more handwaving ramp up by 2025 bullshit. VW cannot stay alive for long without selling clean diesel vehicles. Thats all their purpose is now.

Went into the local Ford Dealership yesterday for an oil change on my F-150 I bought 3 months ago. No sales staff at all. Its nothing but a quicky lube joint now.

Its obvious they have no interest in the electric bullshit whatsoever because...

I found the owner and drilled him about electric.

Its all blah blah blah ramp up by 2025. Thats the "plan".

Its always that date, 2025. Why?

Thats D-Day (DoomsDay) and they bloody know it. Thats when the power goes off and The Plan is:

Fuggetaboutit... Its over.

5000 Cities will be instantly bankrupt and will go into Empty the Ammunition Boxes Economy
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby kublikhan » Tue 23 Jul 2019, 06:25:09

Plantagenet wrote:Its time to face facts: EVs have a problem with spontaneously catching on fire.
Because something like that would never happen to an ICE vehicle.

On April 25, 1996, Ford Motor Company announced it would conduct one of the largest recalls for a safety-related defect in the history of the U.S. Department of Transportation. The recall covered approximately 7,900,000 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles in the U.S. from model year 1988 through 1993 for a defect in the ignition switch causing the cars to catch ablaze spontaneously (NHTSA recall number 96V-071). The recall occurred after years of concealment by Ford that saw parked Fords go up in flames across the country when the ignition switch developed an internal short circuit, overheated and caused the surrounding material to catch on fire. Some of the vehicles were parked in garages and burned houses when they ignited. Ford was well aware of the ignition switch defect long before it reached the agreement with NHTSA under which it would recall the affected vehicles. In the late 1980’s fleets from around the country reported ignition switch caused fires.
Ford Ignition Switch Fires

2008 - Cars can catch fire even when parked and idle, automaker warns. Don't park them in your garage! General Motors Corp. is recalling more than 207,000 Buick Regal and Pontiac Grand Prix sedans and urgently warning owners not to park them in garages or other structures because they can catch fire. The fire-prone vehicles are the 1997-2003 Buick Regal GS and Grand Prix GDP models with 3.8-liter supercharged V-6 engines. Both NHTSA and GM strongly warned owners of the Pontiac and Buick vehicles not to park them in garages or other structures until the fire hazard is eliminated.
General Motors Recalling Buick Regal and Pontiac Grand Prix Models Due to Fire Risk

2009 - The Ford cruise control recall now includes 14 million vehicles, making it the company's largest recall ever. The cruise switch in affected vehicles can fail, potentially causing a fire and other problems. The cruise control deactivation switches were made by Texas Instruments and can overheat, creating a fire hazard even after the vehicle has been switched off. That sounds pretty scary and Ford is suggesting that vehicles included in the recall that haven't been fixed yet shouldn't be parked in garages or near homes. Two deaths have been linked to the fires, as well as several home fires.
Cruise Control Fire Recall Expanded To Ford's Largest Ever

August 8, 2014 - General Motors has announced yet another recall, this time impacting roughly 185,000 Chevy Trailblazers, GMC Envoy and other mid-sized SUV’s after receiving 242 complaints of the driver side window switch circuit boards overheating, which may cause the vehicles to catch fire. Aside from recalling the affected vehicles, GM is warning owners that the vehicles power window modules may short circuit, regardless of whether the vehicle is in use or parked and turned off. GM is asking owners not to park their vehicles in a garage and to leave them outside, away from things that could catch fire until the repair of the power window module is done.
GM Recalls Chevy Trailblazers, GMC Envoy Other SUVs Due to Fire Risk

2015 - Another recall for GM cars with fire risks. Previous attempts to fix the problem, in 2009 and 2011, were unsuccessful. General Motors has issued a recall for 1.41 million vehicles, some dating to 1997, to fix a defect that has caused more than 1,300 engine fires. The problem can cause fires to break out after the engine ignition is shut off. A 2009 recall letter to car owners advised them not to "park your vehicle in a garage, car port of other structure."
Another recall for GM cars with fire risks

2017 - BMW of North America has issued two recalls covering about one million vehicles that contain parts implicated in car fires. The recalls span six years of production and include numerous models of the luxury vehicles, but one of the recalls involves a valve heater that can cause fires in vehicles that are not in operation.

The investigation — launched in collaboration with ABC-owned stations in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco and Raleigh, N.C. — found more than 40 cases in the last five years in which BMW owners said that parked cars that were not then subject to recalls for fire-related issues spontaneously burst into flames. Some of them, they said, had been turned off for hours or even days.
Image
Bill Macko lost his car and his home when his 2008 BMW X5 ignited in his garage.

Video: BMW mystery fires: Parked cars have burst into flames
BMW recalls 1 million vehicles for fire risk
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby tire » Tue 23 Jul 2019, 08:03:54

kublikhan wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Its time to face facts: EVs have a problem with spontaneously catching on fire.
Because something like that would never happen to an ICE vehicle.

Once off and cold, an ICE is practically impossible to catch on fire spontaneously. How could it? The only source of active energy left is a 12V lead acid battery.
On the other hand EV with tens or 100s kWh of energy are much more "unstable".
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby GHung » Tue 23 Jul 2019, 08:34:57

There have been a number of recalls related to ICE vehicles catching fire while parked, including Hyundai and Mercedes. Maybe Tire should do more homework.

I keep up with the electric vehicle memes pretty closely; stuff from the real world,, read and watch a lot of stuff on both sides of the issue, and none of them are discussing much the so-called big problem of EV spontaneous combustion. Once again, Planty's obsession is simply irrational. The latest criticism I've seen is based on the claim that EVs produce more particulate pollution from tire (tyre) and brake wear; just as silly as Plant beating the "spontaneous combustion" thing to death.

Anyway, I always enjoy this guy's rants. He just turned in his Tesla after 4 years and 70k miles. He also discusses Scottish wind power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezY5tW5gGjg
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby tire » Tue 23 Jul 2019, 08:59:10

GHung wrote:There have been a number of recalls related to ICE vehicles catching fire while parked, including Hyundai and Mercedes. Maybe Tire should do more homework.

But how? where?

All examples above provided by kublikhan are related to electronics. Cruise control this, ignition switch that. Electronics is not uniquely ICE. Tesla also is choke full of electronics. So we have to conclude:

ICE cold, off: fire hazard created by faulty electronics and 12V lead-acid starter battery
EV cold, off: fire hazard created by faulty electronics AND faulty multi 100V 100kWh (or whatever) lithium-ion battery.

Yes, it in fact seems that besides the electronics also found on ICE, EV provides an additional fire hazard, namely a large high voltage/high capacity lithium ion battery.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby GHung » Tue 23 Jul 2019, 09:32:35

Please. Don't do a (face) Plant. Cars catch fire sometimes.
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