KaiserJeep wrote:I believe YOUR analysis is too shallow, OS. For one thing, the plug-in hybrid and the ICE-only version of the SAME CHASSIS are in fact different classes of vehicles, performance-wise. The ICE in a PHEV is smaller than the version in the ICE-only vehicle, with lower output. The extra 700 lbs of powertrain pieces and battery does indeed hamper acceleration and handling and impose greater stresses on suspension, brakes, and tires.
If you are enamored of PHEV tech, you tend to overlook the realities imposed by Physics. Note I AM enamored of PHEVs and EVs in general. But I'm also a realist. PHEVs and HEVs are slow and ponderous, unless they have a "performance mode" where BOTH ICE and electric motor are used for acceleration. In that case forget about 25% fuel savings.
Have you bothered to READ about modern HEV's, or are you just endlessly going to repeat the same tired, outmoded mantra?
PHEV's do indeed have a heavy battery which compromises performance. Somehow, though, for people wanting a PHEV and to burn nearly zero gasoline in the city, that comes before blazing 0-60 times. It's NOT that complicated.
But the HEV complaints you have are now mostly false, as they are referring to previous generations. And Toyota is now willing to license its superior HEV tech to all automakers (for no fee, apparently), so all can reap the benefits.
The anemic 25% fuel economy increase you cite is old news and not at all realistic. You keep refusing to catch up.
Real world 47 mpg combined for cars like the modern Camry and Accord is WAY more of an increase than the real world 25 mpg or so for such ICE cars combined. (You get more like 20 mpg in cities, real world, due to traffic lights, waiting in lines for ATM's, fast food, etc. I've experienced that the past 2.5 years, despite a relaxed driving style in the city.)
Now, the idea that the modern hybrids are slow, clumsy, etc. is again, just false, overall. The traction battery provides extra HP. The HEV traction batteries are relatively small and don't make the vehicle "ponderous" at all. The total HP of these is often more than the ICE version of the 4 cylinder models. The batteries no longer take up half the trunk. Read the reviews. Try driving or riding in such cars. It's not 10 or 20 years ago.
I believe much of your "analysis" is just repetition of incorrect beliefs. Sorry if you consider using more modern data "shallow", but facts matter and data impacts facts re such matters.
Some of your performance complaints matter for PHEV's, but not more to the fuel savings for people who want such cars. But for modern HEV's, at least for the superior latest generation design from Toyota, your complaints are much more akin to denialist FUD than valid issues.
https://www.cars.com/research/toyota-camry_hybrid-2018/https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-ho ... id-buy-it/The Honda hits 60 mph in a MotorTrend-tested 6.7 seconds, quicker than any hybridized Fusion. That's also quicker than a base-engine Accord or Clarity plug-in, which is the other car I'd strongly consider. I remember being impressed by the Clarity's ride, and its EV range is exceptional.
Red font mine, for emphasis. Only "ponderous" compared to a six cylinder, 300ish HP engine. Which is totally unnecessary to do normal needed things like passing, merging, etc.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyo ... SKCN1RE2KCToyota said it would grant licenses on nearly 24,000 patents on technologies used in its Prius, the world’s first mass-produced “green” car, and offer to supply competitors with components including motors, power converters and batteries used in its lower-emissions vehicles.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.