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Trump’s Great Economic Boom

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Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 22:13:47

Trump’s Great Economic Boom
But will debt spell doom?
by BEN STEIN , May 31, 2019, 12:13 AM

Now for a few words of praise and caution.

First, Trump is now presiding over almost the longest, most robust recovery in the economic history of the United States. Only the ten-year boom culminating in the tech crash of 2000-2001 was longer and Mr. Trump’s is far more robust. Unless there is a recession in the next few weeks, Trump will break all records. And if you don’t think he’s responsible, think what Nancy Pelosi would be saying if we were in a recession. Donald Trump likes to exaggerate his accomplishments and himself, but in this case he’s totally on the money.

This really is the best economy ever in terms of growth, unemployment, especially black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment (and for all I know, Jewish unemployment, which is basically always zero), and we are even seeing a bounce in manufacturing, which we all thought was impossible.

Mr. Trump is shepherding the economy through all of this while also trying to make some basic changes for the better in how the economy works. He is doing something no one thought could be done: he’s standing up to the mighty China, Incorporated. How that will work out is unknown, but both the Chinese and we like to do business. We’re deal makers, not deal breakers. So if I were a betting man, which I am, I would bet Trump will get a trade deal that makes some progress in protecting our intellectual property and opening the Chinese markets to U.S. products. That will make the economy grow even more if all is well. And it will be about some justice.

Corporate profits are spectacular, and so is the stock market with the exception of the last few weeks.

It’s raining miracles. Trump’s promise that we would win so much that we would get tired of winning is coming true.

There’s just one big problem. The national debt. Trump’s tax cuts have added to our already immense debt of roughly $21 trillion. (Or has it? The debt was already growing at about $1 trillion a year under SuperMan Barack Obama. Maybe it’s smaller now than it would have been without the tax cuts. That’s the supply-side proposition and maybe — just maybe — it is working. Something seems to be happening that’s off the recognized charts of how economies work. Revenues are doing much better than we Samuelsonians would have guessed. What the heck is happening? Maybe Trump really is a magician.)

Now, about the debt. We are adding debt at a frantic pace even with a booming economy. What happens is just as in a normal cycle, we start to slide into a recession or a slowdown. There will be mossbacks who say that if there is a recession we should have austerity and budget cuts. That’s exactly the wrong idea. They tried that in Europe and it didn’t work at all. Let’s just grit our teeth and prepare to keep dropping money out of helicopters if consumption slows down. Let’s keep up those farm subsidies. Above all, let’s not commit suicide by any kind of “Green New Deal,” which would actually be like putting a bullet in the brain of the economy. Just thinking about it is moronic.

I hate little dirty particles in the air as much as anyone. I love oceans and fish. But I also like for people to be able to feed their families. I really don’t like a guaranteed national wage, which is essentially National Socialism in sweat pants. Any government big enough to keep everyone employed is too big and controls too much.

We’re already racing towards INGSOC and the world of 1984’s Big Brother if we elect more Democrats. Let’s not let a recession kill the Republicans’ chances in 2020.

I have a lot more to say, especially about why people look so slobby on the street. But that’s for later. Now to enjoy some Chick-fil-A.



Original is at: https://spectator.org/trumps-great-economic-boom/
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 02:51:25

KaiserJeep wrote: Let’s not let a recession kill the Republicans’ chances in 2020.


I don't think there is a heck of a lot we can do about it.

IF China or the EU go into a recession, or if oil prices skyrocket, or if credit markets seize up, or if the US housing market collapses, of if war breaks out against Iran, or if the Ds move on their threat to impeach Trump....or if......something else.

We can get walloped by a recession no matter what we do here in the US, and we can also do some dumb things here that would start off a recession ourselves.

And of course there are some people who actually want a US recession, like the Ds ---- I was listening to a far-lefty D podcast and they were begging for a recession so they could defeat Trump in 2020.

IMHO we are likely to see a recession by early 2020, and it will be bad for Trump and the Rs and the American economy, but great for the Ds.

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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 08:57:08

The basic problem the D's have is indeed the success of Trump's policies. "It's the economy, stupid." still applies. As unpopular as Trump is, people who are prospering will hold their noses and vote for him. If the election were tomorrow, he would get more votes in the electoral college than last time.

Meanwhile, fools still act as if political ideology matters. Ideology as always, is just for gathering votes, politicians don't actually use it for anything else. The D's didn't lose last time because they had the wrong ideology or the wrong candidate, they lost because Obama tanked the economy because HE didn't understand how the system works. The vast majority of people will always, always vote for whatever will put money in their pockets. There can be no pretense that any D can do that better than Trump.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby derhundistlos » Tue 04 Jun 2019, 20:02:44

KaiserJeep

As the late senator from New York Daniel Patrick Moynihan liked to say, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.” So thanks for your editorial, but time to look at facts and statistics for an objective analysis of your assertion, "Obama tanked the economy."

The Obama years began in the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression and ended with the highest level of household income ever recorded. Obama took office during the worst recession since the Great Depression when the economy was losing 800,000 jobs A MONTH and already had lost a record 9 percent of GDP. In summary, what President Obama did was he rescued an economy that was in free fall, which saved us from a Great Depression.

Thanks to Obama, America has a robust auto industry that employs millions with good paying jobs. When GM and Chrysler were on the verge of bankruptcy, Obama pushed through a rescue package. The Republicans voted as a group to deny loans to the auto industry. Thankfully, the Republicans lost. By the way, the loans were all paid back plus interest.

FACTS AND STATISTICS:

The nation’s unemployment rate declined more than three percent below the historic norm, and the economy gained 11.6 million;

The Dow Jones average has more than doubled; after-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.

Income rose; poverty went down;

The number of Americans without health insurance was nearly cut in half, and the number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million. Premiums rose, but more slowly than before;

The federal budget deficit is down;

The numbers of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are a fraction of what they were in 2009;

Illegal immigration declined: The Border Patrol caught 35 percent fewer people trying to get into the U.S. from Mexico;

Wind and solar power increased by 369 percent. Coal production declined 38 percent. Carbon emissions from burning fossil fuel dropped 11 percent.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 04 Jun 2019, 22:08:38

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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby derhundistlos » Wed 05 Jun 2019, 19:44:17

When incapable of arguing against objective reality, use cartoons to express your frustration and anger.

Trump is a poor man’s idea of a rich man, a weak man’s idea of a strong man, and a stupid man’s idea of an intelligent man.

Trump wants harmony, but he immediately attacks. He demands honest coverage, but like a funhouse George Washington, he cannot tell the truth. He pleads for an end to the politics of personal destruction, but he cannot resist indulging in ad hominem attacks. Trump’s vision of unity can exist only in one-party states, where there is no meaningful opposition and no criticism. His idea of harmony is that his critics yield entirely to his whims.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 05 Jun 2019, 20:05:51

That last message was all subjective opinions with no supporting facts. The prior one from you had not one supporting link for the "facts and statistics", probably because you picked them off of a highly prejudiced source.

Get a clue.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby EdwinSm » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 02:29:52

In the first rather opinionated opinion piece, there was the concern that the BOOM would be the the sound of the DOOM due to DEBT levels.

This is interesting as even an overboard pro-Trump article shows that the debt level is of concern to his supporters.

I personally think that the high, and growing, levels of debt will be part of a coming economic problem, but I am not sure how to separate out the signs of debt from those of the emerging trade wars, or even (heaven forbid) peaking oil supplies (or demand), and the long term signals generated by a falling fertility rate - all these together make my crystal ball rather murky so I cannot say if the debt is the trigger to cause the economy to go Boom Banger Bang loud in all our ears!
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 02:46:35

I personally have been concerned about government deficit spending and debt levels for decades. That is one reason I am not affiliated with either major party. Ross Perot was the last credible candidate for POTUS who wanted to balance the Federal Budget.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby wildbourgman » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 08:05:34

IMHO we are likely to see a recession by early 2020, and it will be bad for Trump and the Rs and the American economy, but great for the Ds.



Plant, I agree with your timing on the recession, but there are some things Trump can do to push it back or to insulate us from the worst of it. Also if that doesn't happen do you really think he's going to own the recession? No, he's going to hang it around the neck of the do nothing congress. He's going to rightfully say they did nothing but try to impeach him rather than looking after the needs of the American people and the economy.

He'll say that American business and the people are so afraid of the democratic nominee that they pulled back on investment and spending until after the election results and that caused a temporary slowdown. He can also blame illegal immigration, Biden's Chinese friends, ETC!

I'll go even further and say that if he gets impeached in the house and subsequently cleared by the senate, that could make the actual need for a recession even stronger for a Trump win. Trump is not a Bush, he's going to demagogue the issues so hard that they won't be able to depend on recession like they did to GHW Bush because Trump fights back.

If the economy is good he'll take full credit, if its bad he'll point the finger and the democrats are allowing his hedge to unfold. Its actually very Clintonesque,,,, beautiful politics!
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 09:58:01

Really, I think things like those cartoons have more impact than most people think. Probably two thirds of Trump's supporters will support him no matter what happens. They only need some cartoon fodder to feel good about that choice. The rest will be swayed by the social impact of that two thirds. The only way Trump can be defeated is to split up his base. The green thing might have worked if the danger posed to the environment were more obvious. I watch the Arctic, so I know how close it is. How many people who support Trump do that? Surely, that number is not enough to cause awareness among the rest. Some other issue is going to have to be the dividing factor, if the Democrats want to win in 2020. It could be something about the economy. But, for that to happen, the Democrats would have to go back to appealing to their traditional base. That's not going to happen either, as the Democrats have become far too hipster to appeal to union style thinking. Perhaps, if they can ditch the poly gender approach, they could appeal to civil rights? The Republicans have overstepped on abortion. In their zeal to finish what they've long sought to do, they don't realize it. There's no way they can put a lid on what they are doing, or are about to do, regarding abortion, unless the Republicans are willing to eliminate the line between religion and the state. Even then, they would have to officially embrace a state religion that was tantamount to an American version of the Taliban, in order to control the people.

The biggest problem looming is that the new economy is not being invested in. Beyond 5g, there remains a real need to go fully electric for transportation. The Democrats could position themselves there as well because for the first time real blood and guts Americans don't perceive electric cars as some sort of pussy wimp fantasy. Trump has taken advantage of America's lead in fracking to lean on the Chinese. He's extended the impact of it beyond the Russians and the Iranians. The people won't question his tariff decisions as long as gas remains cheap. But he hasn't decided to spend on infrastructure like he would need to if America were really going to separate itself going forward. Personally, I don't trust fracking to hold up. I have that bias. I'm not a betting man like the person in the article above. I don't count on it in the same way that Trump does, like it will last well beyond the coming decade. I don't believe in playing with America's future in that way.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby wildbourgman » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 13:11:45

The Republicans have overstepped on abortion.


Personally I think both sides have overstepped. On one hand you have republicans in the states trying to make abortion totally illegal through various means simply to get the issue back to the US Supreme court for a Roe vs. Wade redo, since Kavanaugh was seated.

Then you have democrats that won't say it should be illegal to kill a viable fetus or possibly even wack a baby that lived through a botched abortion.

Knowing politics I get that meeting in the middle will never happen primarily because the democrats don't have to negotiate until the Supreme court changes its mind and the republicans keep the issue alive rather than taking common sense regulation that allows some abortion.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 14:18:30

wildbourgman wrote:
The Republicans have overstepped on abortion.


Personally I think both sides have overstepped. On one hand you have republicans in the states trying to make abortion totally illegal through various means simply to get the issue back to the US Supreme court for a Roe vs. Wade redo, since Kavanaugh was seated.

Then you have democrats that won't say it should be illegal to kill a viable fetus or possibly even wack a baby that lived through a botched abortion.

Knowing politics I get that meeting in the middle will never happen primarily because the democrats don't have to negotiate until the Supreme court changes its mind and the republicans keep the issue alive rather than taking common sense regulation that allows some abortion.


I guess the issue is over whether people have souls. If they do, when do they get them? I'm pretty uncomfortable with abortion in the third trimester, but I still can't say that an unborn baby has a soul during that time. I don't know that the very idea of having a soul doesn't have to do with human consciousness and its interaction with the world. To suggest otherwise, if you are religious, is to invite some kind of inherent understanding of good and evil. That's just to invite the idea of the knowledge of good and evil which man got in the garden. That knowledge of good and evil is what sentenced man to death before God in the first place. If that is all that ceases to exist, then it is not something that a religious person can attach the sort of hysteria to that we see them doing in this argument.

I will say this, I believe that all morality comes down to right of way. Right of way is transferable. A woman has right of way over her own body, not the unborn child. However, since right of way is transferable, a woman can cede the right of way over her body to her child through her love for it. Without that cessation, her right of way cannot be transferred. The child's right of way develops when? Doesn't it develop when it not only can, but does survive on its own, outside of its mother's body. The length of time that it can isn't so important as that it can from one moment to another under the power of the systems at work within its own body, which is probably why I am nervous about the third trimester. Therefore, you are right, if it survives the procedure it ought to have some protection from then being euthanized. Also, there is an assumption made regarding the mother's love for the child inherent to her carrying the child to term, or attempting to. In the case of surviving a procedure, that assumption can't be made and the transfer of right of way which compels the mother to care for the child doesn't exist. Who will then care for it? Are we to say it is the mother who obviously did not cede her right of way who ought to care for it? Is society ready to step in? Can you be compelled to pay taxes on behalf of such a one? That's what it would come to because, as we have already seen in this argument, relying upon volunteerism isn't going to work. Those who care so much for those they can't see have not been willing to care for those they can.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby marmico » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 04:41:46

What great economic boom?

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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby wildbourgman » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 09:55:49

Evilgenius, there was a lot said there I can see your really torn on this issue and that's good, I guess.

To me it's more about the science, the common sense delineation on whether or not its legal to abort should at the minimum be the latest record for the shortest term pregnancy that resulted in a live birth. In considerations of the health of the mother that should be a triage type decision made by the mother and medical professionals. Most medical professionals I've heard on the subject would say that in the third trimester its a simple choice you induce or have a cesarean resulting in a live birth.

On who would care for an unwanted child, that's really a non issue in the west in modern times due to the overwhelming amount of people who want to adopt new born children.

Some people say that the death penalty stance most folks on the religious right is hypocrisy, but I would say using a religious argument, Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and he spoke of being more concerned with the Kingdom of heaven than worldly concerns. A criminal has rendered himself or herself unto the government (Caesar) with their own free will by there own actions where as an unborn has not. In my more Ron Paul libertarian view on abortion I'm for offering liberty to the unborn that had no choice in being created, when the mother did have an initial choice in creating. I'm not very religious but I do see pure evil when I watch a pro-choice crowd cheer and have extreme joy when talking about the subject in the political arena. It's a ghoulish scene and it certainly gives me concern for our future in civilization because there is nothing civil about using abortion as birth control.

Now in an attempt to get back on topic, I think that we could go in a direction with our economy and our society where abortion is the compassionate choice. We are no where near that right now, but when you look at the current drug epidemic, homelessness in major cities, child abuse, and every other glimpse into the future that should be on our radar abortion could be a triage decision on a much larger scale.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby EdwinSm » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 11:14:30

I keep seeing pictures of the American President wearing MAGA caps....does the fact the he is still wearing that slogan mean he has not been successful so far, and is still wishing for it to happen ? :roll: :P
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 11:18:18

How about we keep the whole abortion issue out of politics entirely, and leave such decisions to a woman and her doctors?

Meanwhile, Trump's economy is way stronger than Obama's was. I understand that the economy tanked under GW Bush, but let's be fair: his was a wartime economy following the 9/11 attacks. Obama had no war to fight, and anyways preferred sudden assasination of enemies in the Middle East from a drone in the sky.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby wildbourgman » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 11:21:12

It's just a slogan.

Although, I do think the KAP (Keep America Great) hats can be found now at a retailer near you.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 12:15:16

Personally, I think people have a very exaggerated view of how much control the president has over the economy so to say that the economy is better because Trump is doing a better job of managing it than Obama did seems like a load of nonsense. Many factors contribute to whether an economy is growing or is in recession and no one has control of all of those factors.
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Re: Trump’s Great Economic Boom

Unread postby wildbourgman » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 12:25:06

yellowcanoe wrote:Personally, I think people have a very exaggerated view of how much control the president has over the economy so to say that the economy is better because Trump is doing a better job of managing it than Obama did seems like a load of nonsense. Many factors contribute to whether an economy is growing or is in recession and no one has control of all of those factors.


To me Trump has done some things to temporarily push back the next recession such as the tax cuts, but he has done some things that certainly had a longer term effect such as regulation reform. Without the tax cuts and regulations being rolled back we certainly would have been in recession sooner. Now, I think that if we go into or have already entered into recession, Trump will be forced to take the best trade deals available and that might give the markets and maybe the greater economy a temporary boost too.

Eventually the past recessions that the federal reserve and the government as a whole bailed out will have to take place completely and Trump won't be able to push that back forever.
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