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Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 23 May 2019, 22:09:57

cog for once lives up to his name with this quite cog-ent statement! :)
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 23 May 2019, 22:55:00

Cog wrote:It is a difficult political proposition to demand sacrifice unless the threat is crystal clear and the desired end state is preferable to the alternative of doing nothing.



Take your reasonably intelligent average joe whose aspirations are pretty much centered on enjoying his personal freedoms without having to be burdened with issues that require in depth consideration. His level of distrust in the past 25 years has skyrocketed seeing the bias in all the political parties in the way they twist facts to further their agendas. He witnesses corporate lobbyists in Washington influencing facts like the way the tobacco industry did trying to claim tobacco smoke doesn't cause cancer. He goes occasionally to church, not real religious and he believes in evolution but at the same time believes in a creator but does indeed get a bit confused over the science and were his faith really lies especially when he sees the hypocrisy of evangelists on late night TV that he mostly laughs at but knows there really were a lot of priests butt fucking little boys and yet there is all this anti abortion hysteria out there but damn grateful that the abortion clinic down the street didn't close down when his teenage daughter got drunk on prom night and got pregnant. He listens maybe to some right wing radio claiming that climate change activists are just trying to sell books and maybe he listens to NPR at times when Bernie Sanders is being interviewed about the rigged health care industry and this does resonate with him when he got billed $ 4000 for a Cat scan when his cousin who moved to Canada got the same procedure for free. He voted for Trump and is outraged at the pushback from the democrats about to the same degree to which he finds Trump compromised by his pathologically narcissistic personality. His daughters new boyfriend just made a bold statement at dinner the night before that all life on the planet will be extinct in the next 5 years because of the fossil fuel industry and the Koch brothers and now on top of it there are all these scientists stating that the polar ice caps are melting and his vacation home in Fort Pierce Florida may lose its property value soon or worst get flooded.

And I didn't even mention his on line experiences on social media

What is he really supposed to believe?
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 May 2019, 04:27:22

dohboi wrote:Ah, more 'whataboutism.' Not surprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

"Look, here’s the thing, this thread is about Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption. Yet here we are talking about Trump and relatively small issues."

Says the guy who just tried to derail a thread about children's education with irrelevant and gratuitous partisan tripe! :D :D :D

Meanwhile getting back on topic a bit wrt mitigation:

https://thinkprogress.org/maryland-clea ... Cok40C7AJI

Republican-led Maryland commits to sweeping clean energy standards

In a twist, Gov. Larry Hogan has endorsed a bigger target: 100% clean energy for the state by 2040.


Look everybody, this is me, dohboi, patting these Republicans on the back (or head or derriere, or wherever these types like to be patted :) ) for doing something right! How very non-partisan of me!! Do I get some kind of credit, or a gold start or something?? :) :)


Dohboi,

Yes a gold star for non-partisan comment.

But please double check your references on the prior comment.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 May 2019, 04:46:34

Ibon wrote:
Cog wrote:It is a difficult political proposition to demand sacrifice unless the threat is crystal clear and the desired end state is preferable to the alternative of doing nothing.



Take your reasonably intelligent average joe whose aspirations are pretty much centered on enjoying his personal freedoms without having to be burdened with issues that require in depth consideration. His level of distrust in the past 25 years has skyrocketed seeing the bias in all the political parties in the way they twist facts to further their agendas. He witnesses corporate lobbyists in Washington influencing facts like the way the tobacco industry did trying to claim tobacco smoke doesn't cause cancer. He goes occasionally to church, not real religious and he believes in evolution but at the same time believes in a creator but does indeed get a bit confused over the science and were his faith really lies especially when he sees the hypocrisy of evangelists on late night TV that he mostly laughs at but knows there really were a lot of priests butt fucking little boys and yet there is all this anti abortion hysteria out there but damn grateful that the abortion clinic down the street didn't close down when his teenage daughter got drunk on prom night and got pregnant. He listens maybe to some right wing radio claiming that climate change activists are just trying to sell books and maybe he listens to NPR at times when Bernie Sanders is being interviewed about the rigged health care industry and this does resonate with him when he got billed $ 4000 for a Cat scan when his cousin who moved to Canada got the same procedure for free. He voted for Trump and is outraged at the pushback from the democrats about to the same degree to which he finds Trump compromised by his pathologically narcissistic personality. His daughters new boyfriend just made a bold statement at dinner the night before that all life on the planet will be extinct in the next 5 years because of the fossil fuel industry and the Koch brothers and now on top of it there are all these scientists stating that the polar ice caps are melting and his vacation home in Fort Pierce Florida may lose its property value soon or worst get flooded.

And I didn't even mention his on line experiences on social media

What is he really supposed to believe?


Two thoughtful posts. If you view humanity with empathy, not always an easy proposition for me, you can see why the confusion exists.

KJ and Pops prodded me into reading a good bit of the Federalist Papers. What really struck me in that was the faith they had that the best men would rise to the top to lead the country.

I do think, or perhaps hope, there is room for some enlightened soul who can start national conversations on all these issues. Conversations that can appeal to the common ground and common sense of the country. Through my conversation I do believe there are channels by which we can converse and come to broad agreement on vital matters. Conservatives may not be energized by climate change but they do generally desire greater fiscal restraint, and those two things go hand in hand. No side of the issue sees abortion as a good thing, all we really disagree about is how to deal with it when we unwanted pregnancies occur. The common ground is when we work jointly on prevention.

At this point the political parties and their minions should be viewed as the enemy of the people. They are leading us towards civil discord if not war, and nothing useful can be accomplished in that mental environment. No good comes from blame, we must turn forward towards solutions.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 24 May 2019, 13:51:47

Newfie, I never was enamored of organized political parties. But I would point out that once Democrat and now Republican by convenience Donald Trump is a Populist, the like of which caused severe anxiety in both parties by being entirely outside the establishment political structure. Most Populists run on a third party ticket and lose.

Admittedly, Trump is not anybody likely to be described as among the "best men". But he is outside the power structure that is.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 May 2019, 15:28:41

KJ,

Yes to all of that. He did it despite the parties, not because of them. Even if you truly hate Trump you should admit that he interjected a wee bit of democracy back into our system. The game riggers are now having a bad reaction to that sting. Both parties.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 24 May 2019, 15:30:06

Again, let's avoid false equivalence:

https://www.facebook.com/LeftAction/pho ... =3&theater

Bar chart comparing criminal indictments, convictions and prison sentences in Rep and Dem WH's over last 53 years...let's just say that you can barely see the Dem bars. :)

(Was hoping to be able to copy and paste the image to go along with the link, but didn't manage it. Sorry. If anyone else can, thanks. OR...we could go back to actually discussing the putative topic of the thread!? Please??!!)
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 May 2019, 15:41:01

I’m not chasing links like that. (Which, BTW, you jumped on me for a couple of months ago.). If you have a point make it and link to backup. You teach writing? No?
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 24 May 2019, 23:51:49

Really dohboi, posting a link to a graph with zero supporting data, and created by "Occupy Democrats". Those I assume to be the idiotic bums we saw on the news, who give a bad name to the tradition of political protest.

Back up your assertion that Democrats are less criminally inclined, because the only two presidents ever impeached (Johnson and Clinton) were both Democrats, and the numbers of Federal Senabores and Congress Critters removed from office for corruption is about 3 to 1 Democrats. In the face of it, Democrats are far more corrupt than Republicans.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby derhundistlos » Sat 25 May 2019, 01:57:55

"Trump is outside the power structure."

Oh please. Trump has filled his administration with discredited neocons who are anything but outside the power structure. Trump is fully embraced by Republicon insiders and establishment.

By the way, Kaiser, your figures are dead wrong. I added up the number of federal politicians convicted of crimes going back to 1968 and the totals are 60 Republican and 33 Democratic.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 25 May 2019, 06:11:45

Not far enough back, my figures are from 1869, 72 Republicans and 185 Democrats.

Not to mention that every time they looked under the sheets of a KKK member, they found a Democrat. In case you are not old enough to remember this, the Democrats we called "Dixiecrats" were the extreme right wing of American politics from the Civil War Reconstruction up to the "Camelot reforms" made by JFK. Some day when I'm in a bad mood I will tell you what it was like to live in the "solid Democratic South" (North Carolina and Louisiana) in the 1950s and 1960s, and seeing burning crosses on lawns. Also, graduating from a fully segregated high school in Virginia in 1969.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 25 May 2019, 08:00:40

Yup, KJ has to go back two centuries to find corrupt Dems! :lol: :lol: :lol:

At the executive level, there is no question that there are many more indictments, convictions etc under Repub administrations than Dem ones.

I also note that KJ criticizes by source, but then doesn't even cite a source for his own bs.

No use discussing anything with such an utter hypocrite.

For those who are not totally blinded by their ideology and would like another source:

In the last 50+ years Democrats have been in office for 25 of those years while Republicans held it for 28.

In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one (1) conviction and one prison sentence. That's one whole executive branch official convicted of a crime in two and a half decades of Democrat leadership.

In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53yrs they have had a total of 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials, 89 criminal convictions, and 34 prison sentences handed down.
(Note that this does not include the Trump administration, which would further increase criminal indictments, convictions and sentences, considerably.)

http://www.collegeofcomplexes.org/Compa ... s-Rep.html
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 25 May 2019, 08:20:43

Watch Dohboi how easily we can get baited into the tit for tat polarized drivel which it seems our whole country is now getting reduced to. You just reminded us to get back on topic but you could not resist to nail KJ between the eyes with him having to go back 200 years. As much as I might be tempted to agree with you go back and ask yourself something fundamental Newfie brought up recently,....... does your contribution help to bridge the gap or incite more divisiveness

Does you comment cause KJ to reflect that maybe there is some truth to what you say or does it make him dig deeper and even go back another 200 years or leap forward into space...

At least with a bit of humor we can all see what silly monkeys we are.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 25 May 2019, 13:26:07

" ...how easily we can get baited into the tit for tat polarized drivel which it seems our whole country is now getting reduced to."

Well put. And I do try to insert humor whenever I can, since we are indeed, all silly monkeys.

Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that nothing I say is likely to help KJ to 'reflect.' His responsibility for reflection is his own. But I still feel some obligation to counter his more outrageous claims so that others are less likely to be duped into his tragically destructive delusions.

On the adaption side, we just took our bikes in to be tuned up after a long winter, and plan to do a lot of our limited travel by bike now. It has been quite the brutal and long winter here. (Though I noticed that northern Siberia had temps in the 80's F already a few weeks ago, iirc.)
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 25 May 2019, 14:13:24

dohboi, although asked multiple times, you still have not addressed the basic conundrum of human overshoot. Until we have limited human growth the world over, anything that "kills the planet" faster is a good thing, because the present 7.7+ B humans is 6-7 B past the sustainable number. In that scenario, the quicker TEOTWAWKI comes, the less cumulative damage. The more you do to enable more humans by conserving resources, the worse off during the inevitable and unavoidable crash of the environment and human population.

You ignore this basic problem with all your "killing the planet" threads.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 May 2019, 17:37:54

Dohboi,

That more Rs were convicted may only mean that the ads had more power to do so. It’s not hard to look at Johnson admin and find lots to prosecute. Just like it’s easy to look at Hillary’s perjury (compare her answers to FBI on her knowledge of security protocols with statements in first debate) and ask why she was not prosecuted.

But putting that distraction aside I challenge you to show how Ibon’s claims about the elite spending is not accurate. Sure the elite spend more than the average Joe, that was not the point. If you took all of Gates (fake) money and distributed it out to the lower 50% world wide they would almost instantly spend it creating a huge rush of consumption.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby derhundistlos » Sun 26 May 2019, 03:58:59

Kaiser:

Your figures are dead wrong. Going back 50 years, which describes the political parties in their present incarnation, twice as many Republicans holding federal office have been convicted of crimes then Democrats (60 vs 33). Source: Wikipedia.

As far as my age and knowledge are concerned, you need not patronize me, but I'll give you a clue. Trump and I attended the same high school- New York Military Academy, Cornwall on Hudson, New York. Only one shameful member of our class shirked his military service requirements in Vietnam. Trump used daddy’s money and power to avoid military service by obtaining multiple fake medical deferments (like many Republican chickenhawks, ex. Dick Cheney). Narcissistic Trump determined his time was better spent in NYC “grabbing pussy”. No surprise the military is opposed to Trump’s $100 million military parade idea. The US is not a banana republic and Trump is not a dictator. Military parades are reserved for special occasions.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby derhundistlos » Sun 26 May 2019, 04:12:27

Newfie-

That you think HC should have been prosecuted is meaningless lest I remind you that the Republicans had the perfect opportunity to do so when they controlled all branches of the federal government from 2016-2018. Instead, they took a pass. Sam holds true with the Johnson administration.

I could play the same game, but why engage in an exercise that proves NOTHING, except what I would have liked to have seen done. What matters are FACTS, not personal opinions./
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 26 May 2019, 05:13:37

derhundistlos wrote:Newfie-

That you think HC should have been prosecuted is meaningless lest I remind you that the Republicans had the perfect opportunity to do so when they controlled all branches of the federal government from 2016-2018. Instead, they took a pass. Sam holds true with the Johnson administration.

I could play the same game, but why engage in an exercise that proves NOTHING, except what I would have liked to have seen done. What matters are FACTS, not personal opinions./


Fair enough, there is no constructive point to the game. We will have to agree to disagree and move on. Reasonable men can hold opposing opinions with respect.

We should return to the thread topic: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby derhundistlos » Sun 26 May 2019, 06:39:32

Yes, Newfie, you are right, except I could not allow Kaiser's, at minimum, disingenuous comment to go uncorrected. I did not broach the subject. I merely responded.

That being said, whether people like it or not, politics is right in the center of climate change and mitigation. Our ability to mitigate climate change as well as numerous other equally disturbing ecological catastrophes like the Mass Extinction Emergency depends upon leadership along with the timing and extent to which we respond. We now have a president who categorically denies the existence of climate change, which means we are kicking the can further down the road.
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