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how would you explain climate change and weather to kids?

how would you explain climate change and weather to kids?

Unread postby phaster » Tue 07 May 2019, 22:47:41

perhaps this is the wrong crowd to ask, being somewhat doomish and all given this peak oil forum BUT thought I'd ask anyway,... how would you explain weather and climate change to elementary school kids (w/ out scaring the shit out of them)???

long story short, I've donated a bunch of sub-irrigated planters to an elementary school AND the population is basically lets say economically and socially challenged (i.e. behind the eight ball so to speak)

anyway there is an established school garden, started by a parent not from the neighborhood who is trying to get the population which is predisposed to various health issues,... because of the diet,... heavy on the meats, sugar drinks and devoid of fruits and veg

there has been a program at the school and in the area trying to teach the population the importance of diet and health BUT as I see things, having an established garden is a missed opportunity to teach some real science and math, so one of the items I also donated is a weather station so kids and teachers get use to looking at data and learn not to fear "hard" science and math subjects (which in the long run really pays off)

Science And Math Majors Earn The Most Money After Graduation
https://www.businessinsider.com/stem-ma ... ion-2014-7

basically we know the climate is changing both in the political realm as well as in the real world,... and the only way to mitigate the symptoms is to use "hard" science and math concepts to develop and build countermeasures

anyway was asked to drop by some time to discuss w/ interested students/teachers the big picture of weather and how it relates to growing stuff, along with how the environment is impacted,... I'm waiting for a small science prop to arrive from amazon I thought would be useful to try and put things into context,... basically a small globe, and my idea is to start off with trying to explain orbital dynamics of the earth and sun, and the scale of things in space,... which hopefully gets the audience to appreciate the difference between weather and climate

yeah I know this sounds kinda nebulous so created PDF outline on GoogleDocs,... have a look would be interested in feedback,... basically its how I arrived at the conclusion that we have a real serious problem

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EBiZ8 ... QpIbwPjL9o

or try the "redirect"

http://www.tinyURL.com/HowBigIsTheEarth
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 08 May 2019, 08:23:54

I’m no expert but a mistake I continually make is to press too fast. I expect to see some immediate recognition of my wisdom. I think it takes patience and understanding that you can’t reach all, and I fail at that.

Let the kids guide you, do the intro and hint you have more. Some will seek more, let them take as much has as they want. Don’t push. The kids are your seedlings, don’t over water.

I sincerely hope this helps. Good on you for trying.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 08 May 2019, 12:47:45

"we know the climate is changing both in the political realm as well as in the real world,... and the only way to mitigate the symptoms is to use "hard" science and math concepts to develop and build countermeasures"

Science and math are important, but they also are insufficient to deal with the existential threat presented here. For example, the title question of this thread is a very important, but it is not one that either math or 'hard' science has anything to say about.

That being said, I always thought it would be a good idea for kids to make simple instruments to measure air pressure. This can be good for studying changes in weather. But you can also ask them to think about what it means as far as how great the mass of air is above them at all times. Then for kids the appropriate age, have them work out the mass of the entire atmosphere. From there, they could look at how much oil, gas and coal is burned every year, and figure out how much CO2 goes into the atmosphere.

There are also chemicals that turn water blue (iirc) when a certain level of CO2 is dissolved in it, because the carbonic acid reduces the pH (acidifies it). This could be an introduction into how increases in atmospheric CO2 also increases the acidity (or decreases the alkalinity) of ocean (and other) water, with predictable (and probably some upredictable) negative results on most life forms.

And of course having an actual greenhouse in the garden can be a powerful introduction to how greenhouse gasses work, if approached the right way. It also is a good introduction to thermal solar power.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 08 May 2019, 12:49:58

Most kids just accept the facts.

It's the parents that either don't care or want to deny the facts.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Yonnipun » Wed 08 May 2019, 15:13:51

I think it is not reasonable to expain them in detail what happens when the climate changes. Let them have their beautiful childhood. I remember when I was a schoolboy I already read about the pollution , deforestation etc but I actually never took it so serious because I did not see the real future which eventually happens when those problem are negleted. I am actually greatful that teachers did not reveal the real truth about those items. Those kind of problems are real mood killers. I have a young friend who at the time was 16 years old when we were discussing about many interesting things like the future life of mankind etc and I told him about the future of the universe. That all matter decays into smallest particles that have so long distance between themself that they never collide and eventually even those will annihillate and there will be nothing left. He said that it is depressing. We also had a discussion about professional sport and I made a statement that all of them who are at the top take steroids because it is not possible to win without them. He got angry and told me that nowadays we have so much better diet etc which is actually not true as we in this forum know about soil and the loss of nutrients in it. So I felt sorry afterwards that I wanted to inform him about the sport etc. He has to learn those things by himself.
I also would like to point out that when you are young you may have a completely different perspective to things in life. For example we had a bunch of compulsory literature to go through and I remember when I first read " The catcher in the rye" I specially turned my attention to the parts that had sexual content in them. I found those parts so exciting that I got a boner from reading them. Can you imagine that. Is not that embarrasing. But back then the rest of the book did not have much impression on me. But I have reread that book not a long time ago ,this time in english , and I almost cried at the end reading this book.
I also remember a book "Приключения капитана Врунгеля" that I read when I was about 12 or 13 and I laughed like a lunatic almost at every paragraph. I wanted to laugh again and rearead this book some time ago and I absolutely did not laugh at all this time. I know it is a book for children but I honestly thought that it could make me laugh again.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 08 May 2019, 16:26:49

Well, you have to tell them the truth. You can omit the consequences, just like we try to avoid talk of dying to the young. It's best to let them put 2+2 together in their own minds, which some will do, but not all. The first time they learn Earth Sciences, they will be exposed to it anyway and that is certainly the best time.

Before that time comes, you can teach them the importance of conservation and they will feel good about themselves.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby phaster » Fri 10 May 2019, 11:12:21

dohboi wrote:"we know the climate is changing both in the political realm as well as in the real world,... and the only way to mitigate the symptoms is to use "hard" science and math concepts to develop and build countermeasures"

Science and math are important, but they also are insufficient to deal with the existential threat presented here. For example, the title question of this thread is a very important, but it is not one that either math or 'hard' science has anything to say about.

That being said, I always thought it would be a good idea for kids to make simple instruments to measure air pressure. This can be good for studying changes in weather. But you can also ask them to think about what it means as far as how great the mass of air is above them at all times. Then for kids the appropriate age, have them work out the mass of the entire atmosphere. From there, they could look at how much oil, gas and coal is burned every year, and figure out how much CO2 goes into the atmosphere.

There are also chemicals that turn water blue (iirc) when a certain level of CO2 is dissolved in it, because the carbonic acid reduces the pH (acidifies it). This could be an introduction into how increases in atmospheric CO2 also increases the acidity (or decreases the alkalinity) of ocean (and other) water, with predictable (and probably some upredictable) negative results on most life forms.

And of course having an actual greenhouse in the garden can be a powerful introduction to how greenhouse gasses work, if approached the right way. It also is a good introduction to thermal solar power.


had a physics professor drill in the point years ago, that in order to solve a problem, the first step is to fully understand a problem, and to address the various symptoms of climate change its necessary to use "hard" science and math concepts to develop and build countermeasures"

guess I'm somewhat inoculated against the idea of "the existential threat presented" as you put it because before attending a public university to study physics, I had the benefit of going to catholic school,... point being basically had to take a number of religion classes where I reminded throughout my formidable years that life is terminal and greed is a sin that one should always be aware of,.... AND was made aware of ideas like the 5 Stages Of Grief Model

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http://curioustendency.blogspot.com/201 ... grief.html

Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross on Oprah Winfrey Show - Last Appearance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kR8Via ... gs=pl%2Cwn

at the time thought WTF this is a depressing topic for a "teen" BUT am glad I was introduced to the topic early on because I more or less learned how to recognize the depressing aspects and move on and look for the root cause of the problem (where as most people are stuck in the denial stage and all too often by doing so are making the problem much bigger!!!)
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby phaster » Fri 10 May 2019, 11:38:08

Newfie wrote:I’m no expert but a mistake I continually make is to press too fast. I expect to see some immediate recognition of my wisdom. I think it takes patience and understanding that you can’t reach all, and I fail at that.

Let the kids guide you, do the intro and hint you have more. Some will seek more, let them take as much has as they want. Don’t push. The kids are your seedlings, don’t over water.

I sincerely hope this helps. Good on you for trying.


point taken about pressing too fast,...

one thing that kinda motivate me is something I heard on NPR

Most Teachers Don't Teach Climate Change; 4 In 5 Parents Wish They Did

More than 80% of parents in the U.S. support the teaching of climate change. And that support crosses political divides, according to the results of an exclusive new NPR/Ipsos poll: Whether they have children or not, two-thirds of Republicans and 9 in 10 Democrats agree that the subject needs to be taught in school.

A separate poll of teachers found that they are even more supportive, in theory — 86% agree that climate change should be taught.

These polls are among the first to gauge public and teacher opinion on how climate change should be taught to the generation that in the coming years will face its intensifying consequences: children.


https://www.npr.org/2019/04/22/71426226 ... h-they-did


kinda figure most teachers don't know shit about science or math, so they fear and avoid the subject AND also thought back to how I learned in physics,... basically played w/ physical models to get a basic understanding what was actually happening

then there is issue of the sad state of affairs involving "celebrities" who lack scientific knowledge AND sadly are admired in large segments of the population,... NOT a good choice for role models IMHO or bode well for civilization given the various problems that need to be addressed

https://people.com/celebrity/flat-earth ... not-round/

https://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities ... rity-lists

so thought it important expose young knuckleheads that science and math can be used to dispel bull shit idea(s) like "the earth is flat"

FWIW here is my favorite comment from a YouTube video doing a high production value physics experiment I recalled watching on TV demonstrating the curvature of the earth,...

"God bless Flat earthers. put on this planet to make normal people feel a lot more intelligent"

Flat Earth CRUSHED by Discovery Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVa2UmgdTM4

seems belief in various conspiracy theories will only grow because people are looking for answers to various life's problems (which are caused by corruption and mismanagement at the leadership level)

Flat Earth vs. Round Earth | National Geographic Explorer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06bvdFK3vVU

#SAD
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 10 May 2019, 13:10:02

Both my kids are aware of climate change. Two COMPLETELY different kids, too! I'm not the father of both.

One is people oriented, but amazingly, took Earth Sciences in college (pass/fail, of course). She went on a camping trip with the other students and they were surprised at her nonchalance for sleeping on the ground on dirt (we took her camping, a lot).

Well, you got to live your life and she does.

The other, well, my biological daughter, too. She certainly knows that I know it! She's living her life, too, though, not the life I had envisioned.

Life is 'scary' when you are young. It was for me. Any exceptions out there?
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 10 May 2019, 15:27:15

Nope, terrified as a teenager and young man.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 10 May 2019, 17:54:13

I was raised on Science Fiction, and a big part of describing fantastical planets far away is to lay out how their climate in whole or in part is different than what the average reader has seen around themselves. The books I grew up with were old enough that many tales still wrote of Venus as being a perpetual swamp and Mars a perpetual desert because scientists had not yet determined much about either planet. To people living in the 1850-1950 period writing these stories Venus was a warm swamp because the planet is wreathed in clouds like the misty fog that rises from a tropical swamp in the early pre-dawn hours. Mars on the other hand was a dry desert because speculative observers convinced themselves they saw thousand mile long canals leading from the snowy poles to the equator, which implied vast irrigation projects like the canals across the California desert that feed the farms around Los Angeles.

Going from there different authors expanded thought experiments of what would happen to an earth like planet if its axis were tilted at 45 or even 90 degrees rather than the gentle 23 degrees Earth has.

Or what about a planet where Calcium was a rare chemical instead of being abundant like it is on Earth? That changes how much CO2 gets bound up chemically in rocks.

So when I got to the age where I was reading books about Dinosaurs and how the Dinosaur climate was the same kind of hot wet swamp speculated about Venus it seemed quite reasonable. Back in those days most scientists who studied Dinosaurs were convinced that such large creatures as the Brontosaurus and Bracheasaurus could only support their vast mass if they dwelt in watery environments like African Hippo's do, and nearly ever illustration showed dino's dragging their tails rather than using them as a counterbalance to the head and neck. Later on we learned this wasn't the case, but for about 75 years the accepted wisdom was dion's drag there tails, they are cold blooded and slow moving creatures that could only live in swampy jungles like crocodiles and alligators. Of course that completely ignored the fact that many cold blooded reptiles live in deserts or temperate forests and behave in ways completely disparate from the way crocodilians behave.

Anyhow, if your kids are interested in dinosaurs, and most kids are in my experience, you have a leg up on explaining how climate has changed again and again through the history of the Earth. Anything that has happened once, let alone multiple times, can happen again. In fact the idea that climate is static is actually a misnomer, it is always changing a little bit year to year on many overlapping cycles some of which we have identified and many which we have not.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby phaster » Mon 13 May 2019, 13:47:11

Tanada wrote:I was raised on Science Fiction, and a big part of describing fantastical planets far away is to lay out how their climate in whole or in part is different than what the average reader has seen around themselves.


since you mentioned being raised on "SciFi" here is something I just thought about

before going to a public university where I became fascinated by the topic of "climate change" and its knock on effects, went to catholic school where I was required to read lots and lots of religious text,... AND I mention this because I recalled reading an article

This is where distrust of science really comes from — and it’s not just your politics

...In particular, being a biblical literalist — endorsing the statement, “The Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word” — was a much bigger factor than liberalism or conservatism in explaining why some people disagreed with the use of science in “concrete government policy decisions,” and also why they were against federal science funding.

...Political ideology became more significant in driving people’s views about science as they became more scientifically literate. Thus, being a liberal or a conservative alone didn’t matter much to how the questions above were answered – outside of the cases where political beliefs were combined with scientific knowledge.

“Only for scientifically sophisticated respondents, those 1.5 standard units above the mean, is conservative political ideology associated with less favorable views towards science’s authority,” wrote Gauchat. That’s not surprising: More scientifically literate conservatives are surely more literate and informed in all aspects of life, including politics. And thus, they’re more likely to be aware that the scientific community is a very politically liberal place, overall — far more liberal than the American public.

And knowing this, in turn, they’re inclined to distrust it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... -politics/


given my own back ground, personally think the best way to approach the issue of climate change, is best illustrated from a scene from the TV show the west wing, where a priest tells a joke about a religious person missing all the signs from god

West Wing: Take This Sabbath Day, "The Man Who Lived By the River"

01:33 I'm not kidding you know do you remind
01:40 me of the man that lived by the river he
01:43 heard a radio report that the river was
01:44 gonna rush up and flood the town and
01:47 that all the residents should evacuate
01:50 their homes but the man said I'm
01:53 religious I pray God loves me
01:55 God will save me the waters rose up a
01:58 guy in a rowboat came along and he
02:00 shouted hey you you in there the town is
02:04 flooding let me take you to safety but
02:07 the man shouted back
02:08 I'm religious I pray God loves me God
02:12 will save me a helicopter was hovering
02:15 overhead and a guy with a megaphone
02:18 shouted hey you you down there
02:21 the town is flooding let me drop this
02:25 ladder and I'll take you to safety but
02:26 the man shouted back that he was
02:28 religious that he prayed that God loved
02:30 him and that God will take him to safety
02:33 well the man drumming and standing at
02:41 the gates of st. Peter he demanded an
02:44 audience with God Lord he said I'm a
02:50 religious man I pray I thought you loved
02:54 me why did this happen
02:57 God said I sent you a radio report a
03:01 helicopter and a guy in a rowboat what
03:04 the hell are you doing here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06dQaOZIcH0


the BIG problem in modern day life is lots of individuals who have religious tendencies, are IMHO missing the various signs presented by scientists,... actually noticed this first hand when I attended a "catholic" science and faith conference here in my home town of san diego (basically attended because I wanted to get a feel for lets say how "hard core" catholic faithful thought about the issue of climate change)

https://shop.catholic.com/catholic-answ ... ience-mp3/

bottom line I witnessed first hand,.... they’re inclined to distrust it ("it" being basic science,... and religious individuals not understanding planet earth is pretty small in the grand scheme of things)

http://www.TinyURL.com/HowBigIsTheEarth

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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Grifter » Mon 13 May 2019, 17:21:47

Someone else said, the kids will just handle it, we project our insecurities onto them.

I'd say, weather is when it rains hard and floods here and there, or it snows a lot and you get massive drifts, or it's really hot and dry sometimes.

Climate change means it happens more often and you see it happening to other people on tv, people will need to move from one place to another and it will happen more frequently as the kids get older. From my limited experience they seem to get it.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 13 May 2019, 18:05:04

The Washington Post let me squeak through their paywall this time, so I skimmed through the article.

Conservatives know their views go against the FACTS and, so, they naturally distrust science (in order to affirm their conservative bias). Liberals, on the other hand, I suppose, would be swayed by religious beliefs as an adjunct motivation, but FACT-wise, they are NOT afraid, unless it did conflict with their beliefs on some issue. So, it boils down to one believes what one wants to, no more, no less.

That is certainly interesting, if one were to explain climate change to kids and they would actively resist, rather than just leave it to expediency, as most people do. Even the kids are being dragged into this political divide.

I think one has to approach this as the kids WANT to learn about this because it is interesting and exciting to explore new things. If they are already politically and theocratically (?) jaded, than that is just their problem and not the teacher's. There will be plenty of young people who do want to learn the truth, or learn science, which is the process of uncovering the truth.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby GHung » Mon 13 May 2019, 20:44:46

how would you explain climate change and weather to kids?

My kids figured it out for themselves. We just gave them the tools. Now it's their problem to get their kids to the point where they can figure things out rather than adopt some suicidal narrative.
Not that they'll have many win/win choices.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby phaster » Mon 20 May 2019, 17:06:49

jedrider wrote:The Washington Post let me squeak through their paywall this time, so I skimmed through the article.

Conservatives know their views go against the FACTS and, so, they naturally distrust science (in order to affirm their conservative bias). Liberals, on the other hand, I suppose, would be swayed by religious beliefs as an adjunct motivation, but FACT-wise, they are NOT afraid, unless it did conflict with their beliefs on some issue. So, it boils down to one believes what one wants to, no more, no less.

That is certainly interesting, if one were to explain climate change to kids and they would actively resist, rather than just leave it to expediency, as most people do. Even the kids are being dragged into this political divide.

I think one has to approach this as the kids WANT to learn about this because it is interesting and exciting to explore new things. If they are already politically and theocratically (?) jaded, than that is just their problem and not the teacher's. There will be plenty of young people who do want to learn the truth, or learn science, which is the process of uncovering the truth.


truth can be painful to face because lots of no talent ass clowns (i.e. "fake leadership") have not done their jobs in the past,... so problems have only grown much bigger over time

seems the existential risk is much higher than the scripps study giving a 1 in 20 chance for the extension of humanity by 2050,... because economic factors are not accounted for!

as I pointed out in the survey of background info needed to address various symptoms of climate change,...

http://www.TinyURL.com/HowBigIsTheEarth

Why Central Banks Are Taking on Climate Change

...Why are central bankers so interested in climate change issues? One reason is that serious effects from climate change now look much closer to the horizon than recently thought, said Orts, who is also director of Wharton’s Initiative for Global Environmental Leadership. Not long ago — when big climate trouble appeared to be 30-50 years away — there was little interest from bankers. Now, impacts are visible and “the window for making a significant transition in order to avoid radical crashes in the world, including financial crashes, is 10 to 12 years.” Given that central banks are responsible for financial stability, there is a newfound focus.

The U.S. is still not part of this central bank organization in part because it is so new, Orts added. But the signatories represent “a huge number of countries – you have China, Mexico, many European countries, etc., and the U.S. will be compelled to come into this.” China is one of the key leaders of the new process, noted Campiglio, who is also a visiting fellow at the London School of Economics.


https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/art ... te-change/


sadly little thought or serious study has been given to the interplay of climate change and the economy,... or said another way the working assumption seems to be technology will come up with a fix to address problematic symptoms associated w/ climate change AND doing so will give us a "green" economy

as I see things, we are going to have problems with the economy at the same time people wake up and realize there are problems that need to be fixed w/ the screwed up environment

to give you an example in my neck of the woods of few seriously thinking about economics,... there was a front page news story about a problem associated w/ the management of the local public pension portfolio

http://www.TinyURL.com/13thcheck

so you're asking WTF does this have to do w/ climate change,.... well basically its just like central bankers outside of the USA just now waking up and just realizing they have done a piss poor job of managing risk!

check out link about the 13th public pension check above,... sadly its an example where understanding middle school math concepts should have been used many decades ago in order to prevent the build up of billions in debt

sent the local news paper reporter(s) the high lighted PDF article, which included a document found by simply googling, that shows the no talent ass clowns (i.e. "fake leadership") knew long ago what was going on,... but so far noting new on the topic seems to have been reported on,... perhaps that is because I also pointed out a simple math error the watchdog reporter(s) made

since the local media isn't reporting on the various issues, my best guess what will happen is something akin to subprime economic crisis of 2007 (where investors who bothered to look, knew what was going to happen)

http://www.TinyURL.com/InvestorWarning
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby phaster » Mon 20 May 2019, 17:23:12

GHung wrote:how would you explain climate change and weather to kids?

My kids figured it out for themselves. We just gave them the tools. Now it's their problem to get their kids to the point where they can figure things out rather than adopt some suicidal narrative.
Not that they'll have many win/win choices.


upon doing some reading on the topic of people "figuring things out" WRT "climate change" specifics,... seems safe to say only 0.0001% of the population knows the actual science

Why Doesn’t Everyone Believe Humans Are Causing Climate Change?

...Climate illiteracy isn’t just limited to the general public, either. Ranney recalls a scientist’s presentation at a recent conference which said that many university professors teaching global warming barely had a better understanding of its mechanism than the undergraduates they were teaching. “Even one of the most highly-cited climate change communicators in the world didn’t know the mechanism over dinner,”

...When Ranney surveyed 270 visitors to a San Diego park on how global warming works, he found that exactly zero could provide the proper mechanism.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/c ... cceptance/


meanwhile CO2 concentrations continue to rise,...

It's Official: Atmospheric CO2 Just Exceeded 415 ppm For The First Time in Human History

Yet another alarming milestone of humanity's damaging effect on the environment has now officially been reached – crossing a barrier into a hot, polluted future like the planet hasn't witnessed in millions of years.

This weekend, sensors in Hawaii recorded Earth's atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) passing 415 parts per million (ppm) for the first time since before the ancient dawn of humanity.


https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-offic ... an-history
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Cog » Tue 21 May 2019, 01:04:35

I would explain to them that climate change is a left wing conspiracy to deprive you of your American right to consume as you wish. After that, the kids can do what they want.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 21 May 2019, 10:27:17

Here is how Bill Nye explains it to adults.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ate-change

It’s best to be sober when watching.
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Re: how would you explain climate change and weather to kids

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 21 May 2019, 11:39:54

Newfie wrote:Here is how Bill Nye explains it to adults.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ate-change

It’s best to be sober when watching.


Humor cuts through the fog of denial where long winded apacolyptic sermons fail to enlighten. That was FUCKXNG great!
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