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THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

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Re: Bill Weld to Primary Trump

Unread postby Cog » Thu 21 Feb 2019, 20:07:32

The GOP didn't pick Trump in 2016, the voters did. Just like we are going to pick him again.
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Re: Bill Weld to Primary Trump

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 22 Feb 2019, 05:21:44

Cog wrote:The GOP didn't pick Trump in 2016, the voters did. Just like we are going to pick him again.

Yes the voters picked Trump. It remains to be seen if they will pick him again. I would not be surprised to see between one and four GOP candidates announce between July forth and Labor day. A lot depends on Mueller's report and other events between now and July.
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"GOP = DRUG GANG"--Repub. Strategist

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 04 Aug 2020, 14:41:46


The GOP is like ‘a drug gang’ that seeks ‘power for no purpose’: Longtime Republican Strategist


https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/the-go ... trategist/

Longtime GOP strategist Stuart Stevens, who is a veteran of multiple Republican presidential campaigns, tells Mother Jones’ David Corn that the party he has worked to elect all his life has devolved into something akin to a criminal cartel.

Stevens, who left the GOP in the wake of President Donald Trump’s rise, says the party at the moment has no rationalization for existing other than the simple maintenance of its own political power...

he doesn’t think the Republicans ever really believed any of their rhetoric about fiscal responsibility, family values, and the promotion of democracy abroad.

“I feel like a guy who was working for Bernie Madoff,” he says.

All of this has left Stevens to conclude that there’s no way to save the Republican Party —

only to “burn it to the ground and start over.”
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Re: Bill Weld to Primary Trump

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 04 Aug 2020, 15:24:56

Cog wrote:The GOP didn't pick Trump in 2016, the voters did. Just like we are going to pick him again.


But how many can be FOOLED again remains the issue for Republicans?

I'm guessing way under the 100% that would be needed.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby careinke » Tue 04 Aug 2020, 20:28:19

I was thinking about where to post this, and then I noticed this thread pop up. I chose this thread because I believe the Repug's are the most responsible.

The 2020 Decennial census will fail.

For those that don't know, I have been working as a 2020 Decennial Census Field Supervisor (CFS) since last year. In addition, I worked on the 2010 Decennial Census. I do it for the opportunity to examine a system that grows so fast and then turns around and downsizes even faster. I have always studied systems, they fascinate me.

My Boss and his deputy just quit. Here is his closing statement:

Short and sweet. Today is the last day as a census worker for XXXX and I. The environment in the office does not allow me to take care of my employees or get the job done. The office environment has become toxic physically and oppressive mentally. I look forward to keeping in touch with you.


He sent the message to all of his CFS's. The week prior there was a mass quit in the Area Census Office (ACO), and two of my Bosses, bosses up-chain quit along with lots of clerks and others.

So anyway, we have no idea who our boss is. Crazy Huh? That's just local but lots of other ACO's are in similar straights.

Now comes the fun part:

The 2020 Census is required by law to have the report on the Presidents Desk by 1 Jan 2021. The plan was to have all the field work finished by the end of October this year. This gives a nice margin for the statisticians and computer geeks to do their magic stripping identifying data from the count.

Then Covid hit. Field Operations were suspended mid-March, and Field Personal were paid for 19.5 hrs every week and directed not to work in the field. This qualified us for the extra $600 covid unemployment insurance. In the meantime, we were trying to figure out how to train the huge onslaught of enumerators scheduled to come on board, in a no-contact way. Plus, how to conduct the census with no contact and appropriate social distancing.

By May, the Census, had figured out it was not going to be able to make it without an extension and asked congress for a four month extension. Of course this ran counter to Trump's attempt to reopen the economy and show everything was great. So no bill was ever put forward, much less signed by the President.

Yesterday the Census confirmed (after PBS broke the story) they were going to actually finish up the counting by the end of September! A month earlier than the original plan!

My friends, there are going to be a LOT of uncounted people. The left is already making noises and it will soon be an uproar, IMO rightfully so. They are claiming the poor and people of color will be most affected, because they traditionally do not respond, and have to be searched out to be enumerated (My Job). I don't think it will be that skewed, but skewed none the less.

In my area, very rural, most of the hold outs fly Yellow don't tread on me flags, and are VERY concerned about privacy. That said, most of them are not rich either (except for their land). So the rednecks may offset the "people of color."

When you consider congregational districts, Federal Aid, businesses, researchers, ect all rely on this DATA, the consequences of bad DATA are legion.

Another step in the collapse, that I have no control of, but stillvery interesting to observe.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 01:43:40

Again I think the government can get a pretty good count just by adding all the people filing or claimed as dependents on tax returns to those receiving entitlement checks and medicaid. Very few people are not one or the other including children of undocumented aliens. In this time of social distancing that might have to do with any under count probably spread pretty evenly over the various congressional districts.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby careinke » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 01:57:32

vtsnowedin wrote:Again I think the government can get a pretty good count just by adding all the people filing or claimed as dependents on tax returns to those receiving entitlement checks and medicaid. Very few people are not one or the other including children of undocumented aliens. In this time of social distancing that might have to do with any under count probably spread pretty evenly over the various congressional districts.


Perhaps, but it won't count illegals and homeless. I guess the Sanctuary City strategy for gaining political power is not going to work. Side note, I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention:

“Gerrymandering” was named for Elbridge Gerry, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. As Governor of Massachusetts (1810–1812), Gerry approved a redistricting plan for the state senate that gave the political advantage to Republicans
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 03:41:50

careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Again I think the government can get a pretty good count just by adding all the people filing or claimed as dependents on tax returns to those receiving entitlement checks and medicaid. Very few people are not one or the other including children of undocumented aliens. In this time of social distancing that might have to do with any under count probably spread pretty evenly over the various congressional districts.


Perhaps, but it won't count illegals and homeless. I guess the Sanctuary City strategy for gaining political power is not going to work. Side note, I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention:

“Gerrymandering” was named for Elbridge Gerry, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. As Governor of Massachusetts (1810–1812), Gerry approved a redistricting plan for the state senate that gave the political advantage to Republicans

Well quite a few of the homeless have active social security numbers and or are receiving some form of benefits. Many of the illegals are using some dead persons social security number to work or have active criminal records. It takes quite a lot to fly totally under the radar to the point the government doesn't even know you exist.A good cross check of all the government computer bases would probably get them a much better count then the door to door head counts do.
Yes Gerrymandering is an evil game played hard by both parties. Voting districts the width of a highway to combine one neighborhood with another miles away and the like. It should be done away with but you will never get the party in power to give up the leverage it brings.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby careinke » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 04:15:21

vtsnowedin wrote:
careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Again I think the government can get a pretty good count just by adding all the people filing or claimed as dependents on tax returns to those receiving entitlement checks and medicaid. Very few people are not one or the other including children of undocumented aliens. In this time of social distancing that might have to do with any under count probably spread pretty evenly over the various congressional districts.


Perhaps, but it won't count illegals and homeless. I guess the Sanctuary City strategy for gaining political power is not going to work. Side note, I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention:

“Gerrymandering” was named for Elbridge Gerry, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. As Governor of Massachusetts (1810–1812), Gerry approved a redistricting plan for the state senate that gave the political advantage to Republicans

Well quite a few of the homeless have active social security numbers and or are receiving some form of benefits. Many of the illegals are using some dead persons social security number to work or have active criminal records. It takes quite a lot to fly totally under the radar to the point the government doesn't even know you exist.A good cross check of all the government computer bases would probably get them a much better count then the door to door head counts do.
Yes Gerrymandering is an evil game played hard by both parties. Voting districts the width of a highway to combine one neighborhood with another miles away and the like. It should be done away with but you will never get the party in power to give up the leverage it brings.


Except the census NEVER uses Social Security Numbers, it's against the law. A social security number is to easy to connect to a person violating a plethora of Privacy Issues. Besides you need to know where people live in a much finer detail than you can get from a SS#.

Thanks for the pleasant discussion. :)
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 06:10:14

Well perhaps they should change that law admitting that the pretension to privacy is now a thing of the past. Also tax returns show both SS numbers and mailing addresses and school enrollments give student addresses and family court records record both parents current addresses for visitation purposes without regard to citizenship of one or more parents. What is not in one data base is probably in another and a computer cross match could sort most of it out.
After all it is no safer to send census workers door to door today then it was back in March so adding on months to the process will not get the job done as it traditionally was which was never perfectly accurate to begin with.
They need to accept the reality of the current Covid situation and adapt to it doing the best they can with the harness they got on.
Yes A pleasant conversation. :)
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 13:19:42

careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Again I think the government can get a pretty good count just by adding all the people filing or claimed as dependents on tax returns to those receiving entitlement checks and medicaid. Very few people are not one or the other including children of undocumented aliens. In this time of social distancing that might have to do with any under count probably spread pretty evenly over the various congressional districts.


Perhaps, but it won't count illegals and homeless. I guess the Sanctuary City strategy for gaining political power is not going to work. Side note, I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention:

“Gerrymandering” was named for Elbridge Gerry, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. As Governor of Massachusetts (1810–1812), Gerry approved a redistricting plan for the state senate that gave the political advantage to Republicans


AHEM the Republican Party wasn't even formed until the mid 1850's when they decided the Whig Party was not abolitionist enough to suit them. We started out with the Democratic-Republican Party and the Federalist Party. The D-R party evolved into the Democratic Party dropping the Republican part of the name, the Federalist were replaced by the Whig's who were in turn replaced by the Republicans. From 1860-2020 we have had the D's and R's.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 14:23:49

careinke wrote:Perhaps, but it won't count illegals and homeless. I guess the Sanctuary City strategy for gaining political power is not going to work. Side note, I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention:
As I have stated a lot of the homeless and illegals show up in other data bases and will get counted. You are never going to count every last one but door to door doesn't get them all either.
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Subjectivist wrote:AHEM the Republican Party wasn't even formed until the mid 1850's when they decided the Whig Party was not abolitionist enough to suit them. We started out with the Democratic-Republican Party and the Federalist Party. The D-R party evolved into the Democratic Party dropping the Republican part of the name, the Federalist were replaced by the Whig's who were in turn replaced by the Republicans. From 1860-2020 we have had the D's and R's.

Well George Washington was a Whig so I don't know as you have the timeline just right but a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet. At any rate the name Gerrymandering dose come from that odd shaped district proposed by Governor Gerry of whatever party he was at the time.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 16:52:31

careinke wrote: I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention


You should demand your money back from whoever taught you that.

From Wikipedia: The term gerrymandering is named after Elbridge Gerry (pronounced like "Gary"[2]), who, as Governor of Massachusetts in 1812, signed a bill that created a partisan district in the Boston area that was compared to the shape of a mythological salamander.

Since the R party didn't even exist in 1812 its clearly "fake news" to claim the Rs invented Gerrymandering.

Cheers! :-D :) :lol: :razz: :roll: 8)
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 18:10:09

Plantagenet wrote:
careinke wrote: I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention


You should demand your money back from whoever taught you that.

From Wikipedia: The term gerrymandering is named after Elbridge Gerry (pronounced like "Gary"[2]), who, as Governor of Massachusetts in 1812, signed a bill that created a partisan district in the Boston area that was compared to the shape of a mythological salamander.

Since the R party didn't even exist in 1812 its clearly "fake news" to claim the Rs invented Gerrymandering.

Cheers! :-D :) :lol: :razz: :roll: 8)


Whatever. Republicans RE-INVENTED and RE-INVIGORATED Gerrymandering, so I'm OK with the narrative that Gerrymandering belongs to REPUBLICANS now.

This is like claiming that Republicans are environmentalists because Theordore Roosevelt was an environmentalist.

Just get over it. The Democrats no longer kowtoe to Southern Rascism, the Republicans will try to win by WHATEVER method they can get their hands on and the Republicans today bear no resemblance at all to past Republicans. Democrats, well, some have deviated from FDR's policies while the Republicans live their own world which is about to be turned upside down this election cycle.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 18:14:07

Furthermore, I think there WILL be mass confusion this election cycle and Trump will AGAIN claim that there was election fraud.

However, the results will be so lobsided that it will all be besides the point that Trump won't be re-elected and we will have a black woman as VP.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 19:28:51

This argument is beyond ridiculous. Both sides engage in Gerrymandering to the full extent of their ability whenever they have the power. To say one side or the other is guilty while the other is innocent just demonstrates the bias of the poster.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 19:45:13

It strikes me that we have another virus running through the country. That virus gives certain folks feeling of power and virtue and righteous indignation combined with the knowledge that they are right and THEY must bear the burden of REVENGE.

I think the virus spread through memes. It seems to have infected about 10% of the population. But it is most virulent among broadcasters.

Eventually the fever will pass, but we still don’t know the duration of the disease. It could be over shortly, or take several years. It seems to jump from topic to topic: Tea party, me too, cancel, greta (anyone remember Greta?), BLM, and various other alphabet organizations.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby careinke » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 21:45:33

Subjectivist wrote:
careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Again I think the government can get a pretty good count just by adding all the people filing or claimed as dependents on tax returns to those receiving entitlement checks and medicaid. Very few people are not one or the other including children of undocumented aliens. In this time of social distancing that might have to do with any under count probably spread pretty evenly over the various congressional districts.


Perhaps, but it won't count illegals and homeless. I guess the Sanctuary City strategy for gaining political power is not going to work. Side note, I learned that Gerrymandering was a Republican invention:

“Gerrymandering” was named for Elbridge Gerry, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. As Governor of Massachusetts (1810–1812), Gerry approved a redistricting plan for the state senate that gave the political advantage to Republicans


AHEM the Republican Party wasn't even formed until the mid 1850's when they decided the Whig Party was not abolitionist enough to suit them. We started out with the Democratic-Republican Party and the Federalist Party. The D-R party evolved into the Democratic Party dropping the Republican part of the name, the Federalist were replaced by the Whig's who were in turn replaced by the Republicans. From 1860-2020 we have had the D's and R's.


Wow, I just copied and pasted, who would have thought that google would give me bad info??? Now that I think about it and having just watched Hamilton, I'd have to agree with you. I wonder if he was an Abolitionist, ahh, some more research....
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 05 Aug 2020, 22:00:12

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbridge_Gerry

Gerry was at first opposed to the idea of political parties, and cultivated enduring friendships on both sides of the political divide between Federalists and Democratic-Republicans. He was a member of a diplomatic delegation to France that was treated poorly in the XYZ Affair, in which Federalists held him responsible for a breakdown in negotiations. Gerry thereafter became a Democratic-Republican, running unsuccessfully for Governor of Massachusetts several times before winning the office in 1810. During his second term, the legislature approved new state senate districts that led to the coining of the word "gerrymander"; he lost the next election, although the state senate remained Democratic-Republican. Chosen by Madison as his vice presidential candidate in 1812, Gerry was elected, but died a year and a half into his term. He is the only signer of the Declaration of Independence who is buried in Washington, DC.


In 1812 the state adopted new constitutionally-mandated electoral district boundaries. The Republican-controlled legislature had created district boundaries designed to enhance their party's control over state and national offices, leading to some oddly shaped legislative districts.[82] Although Gerry was unhappy about the highly partisan districting (according to his son-in-law, he thought it "highly disagreeable"), he signed the legislation. The shape of one of the state senate districts in Essex County was compared to a salamander by a local Federalist newspaper in a political cartoon, calling it a "Gerry-mander".[83] Ever since, the creation of such districts has been called gerrymandering.[a][82]
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 06 Aug 2020, 10:00:21

Newfie wrote:It strikes me that we have another virus running through the country. That virus gives certain folks feeling of power and virtue and righteous indignation combined with the knowledge that they are right and THEY must bear the burden of REVENGE.

I think the virus spread through memes. It seems to have infected about 10% of the population. But it is most virulent among broadcasters.

Eventually the fever will pass, but we still don’t know the duration of the disease. It could be over shortly, or take several years. It seems to jump from topic to topic: Tea party, me too, cancel, greta (anyone remember Greta?), BLM, and various other alphabet organizations.


The other perspective was that I couldn't believe the media was not on Trump's case back in 2016. They were treating him with kid gloves when they should have been revealing his background of arrogance and effecting feigned religiousness and of extensive bankruptcies (not at all the shrewd business person he was made out to be) and his hucksterism and discriminatory behaviors. Of course, they are all on top of it now and there is so much to behold, it's like drinking from a fire hose. Biden should be put in his place as well, but compared to Trump, he's the gallant (but old) knight in shining (white) armor. Well, that's the other perspective.
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