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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 26 Jan 2019, 08:34:23

It seems less Alpine ice floe into the Rhine is creating freight disruptions.

https://gcaptain.com/europes-most-impor ... rs-shrink/
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Rebellion

Unread postby Whitefang » Sat 26 Jan 2019, 08:57:01

https://rebellion.earth/

Heading for extimction and what to do about it.

Grass root initiative to fight against......our opponents, that rotten talk in our head, leading to failed governments, corrupted power.
All of them, no freedom since agriculture last holocene.
I think people are realizing that we have nothing to loose, to stand up against oppressors, our terrorists is a first step, the first battle.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Whitefang » Sat 26 Jan 2019, 08:59:14

Newfie wrote:It seems less Alpine ice floe into the Rhine is creating freight disruptions.

https://gcaptain.com/europes-most-impor ... rs-shrink/


Together with drought it has done damage to economy, will do much more in the near future.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Revi » Mon 28 Jan 2019, 12:55:24

I heard that the water is way warmer than normal in the north atlantic off of the coast.

Anyone else hear anything about this?
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 28 Jan 2019, 15:00:36

Revi wrote:I heard that the water is way warmer than normal in the north atlantic off of the coast.

Anyone else hear anything about this?
It depends on what you consider "Way above".
I don't see anything alarming in the current charts.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/satellite/index.uk.php
and
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 28 Jan 2019, 15:24:55

There were rather extreme anomolies last summer including the NE coast of Newfoundland.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 28 Jan 2019, 16:31:53

I don't know what is the extent of normal variation so don't know how much anomaly for any one day or month is a concern.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 28 Jan 2019, 19:32:37

Last years water temp anomolies were concerning. It’s been building over the years. Lobsters territory is moving further North. Other fish are moving their range.

One thing really bad is when a fishes range becomes untenable. A bank of relatively shoal water may support a certain species fish. As the water warms the fish are driven off the bank. Then there is no place for them to go. Kind of like mountain tops can be “islands” for certain species.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 29 Jan 2019, 08:57:05

Newfie wrote:Last years water temp anomolies were concerning. It’s been building over the years. Lobsters territory is moving further North. Other fish are moving their range.

One thing really bad is when a fishes range becomes untenable. A bank of relatively shoal water may support a certain species fish. As the water warms the fish are driven off the bank. Then there is no place for them to go. Kind of like mountain tops can be “islands” for certain species.

I suppose so for bottom feeding fish like cod out on Georg's bank surrounded by deeper water but the populations near shore can just swim up and down the coast in search of the preferred water temp and supply of food.
I do think over fishing by commercial fish factory ships and regulations that are frankly stupid and counter productive have and continue to do way more harm to fish stocks then ocean warming has.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 29 Jan 2019, 11:07:45

Yup, maybe not more than CC. But at the rate we are going CC will be a moot point, many soecies won’t last that long.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 31 Jan 2019, 13:52:04

America colonisation ‘cooled Earth's climate’
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47063973

Basically, climate change is mostly anthropogenic in the time frames that we care about.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 15:37:58

Decarbonizing electricity alone cannot provide the required emissions reductions



Australia does seem to be accelerating its implementation of renewable energy, which should help reduce emissions in that sector. Unfortunately, electricity is only part of the mix and the other parts are more than offsetting any electricity emission reductions "while electricity emissions are projected to dip, other sectors are on the rise". Given the probable highly questionable nature of Australia's reporting on LULCF (land use, land change and forestry) statistics, plus fugitive methane, the reality is probably significantly worse.

Same issue for Germany, and Brazil has deregulated Amazon forest clearing so that should ramp up soon in favour of soybean plantations and cattle ranches. Same for the US if fugitive methane emissions are properly included (up in in 2018 even without that).

Three things are needed: increased renewables + increased efficiency + demand-side energy use reductions. We are currently lukewarm on the first two and the third one is not even on the table given the focus on continued economic growth. The rich world should be reducing emissions at 10%+ a year to more than offset the poorer nations such as Indonesia and India (the latter is getting close to the EU28 level of emissions).

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-21/ ... s/10646522

http://world.350.org/canberra/australia ... -clearing/

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factshe ... te-targets

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... h-in-2018/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... tation-ngo

(Thanks to rboyd at asif for links and text)
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 16:09:50

Even "renewable" energies such as Solar and Wind warm the Earth. When you intercept sunlight that would have grown plants that sequestered carbon, you effectively have increased the carbon content of the air by taking the power. Then when you consume that energy via space heating or lighting or cooking, the heat generated is eventually rejected into the environment in the air, ground, or water.

So much for the supposed benefits of renewable energy.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 18:30:38

KaiserJeep wrote:Even "renewable" energies such as Solar and Wind warm the Earth. When you intercept sunlight that would have grown plants that sequestered carbon, you effectively have increased the carbon content of the air by taking the power. Then when you consume that energy via space heating or lighting or cooking, the heat generated is eventually rejected into the environment in the air, ground, or water.

So much for the supposed benefits of renewable energy.

Nonsense.

First, to the extent that less CO2 is produced, that's less GHG effects, holding in heat like a blanket.

The plants have a lifecycle. They only sequester carbon temporarily. Also, how about places where there are few plants? Like deserts. Roofs. Sides of buildings.

GHG's are by far the biggest effect.

On this subject, you continue to substitute intuition for science, and then proclaim you're correct.

This is no different in principle than people who proclaim there is no such thing as evolution, because the idea "offends God". e.g. their religious intuition rejects the science.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 20:06:18

Drives me crazy to see a perfectly good field covered with solar panels. Plenty of parking lots and roofs need to covered with them.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 01 Feb 2019, 20:14:33

I am correct when I say that if you build a solar PV array in a field, you shade out the plant cover underneath. If you don't understand why, you can examine the nearby Guadalupe Project about a mile from my home. It WAS a rich grassy meadow growing scrubby bushes, it's now barren ground under the panels, with a few varieties of shade tolerant vegetation that are pretty sparse. (NO, they don't use any herbicides.) What used to happen is that deadwood and dried grasses accumulated as fuel, until a periodic wildfire released the carbon again. Now what happens is that carbon is never absorbed, the PV panel takes the energy, robbing plant growth.

Likewise, I am correct that when you CONSUME power, either with a mechanical or electrical/electronic system, you add heat to the environment. EVs for example, generate heat in battery packs, brakes, and tires. HVAC systems, whether heat pump or conventional resistance heat, release waste heat equal to the power consumed. Lighting systems release heat, even LEDs have heatsinks, and every form of lighting causes an increase in temperature when visible light is absorded on lighted surfaces and re-radiated as infrared radiation.

It's thermodynamics, no escaping entropy. All electrical energy on the grid ends up as waste heat somewhere or another. It never just disappears. Just because renewable energy fanboys don't want to talk about it, doesn't make such energy sources heat-free.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 02 Feb 2019, 04:08:44

I expect the heat energy released by a working electric motor is much less then the heat released by a gas or diesel engine. Some two thirds of the energy in the fuel is lost as heat out the radiator and in the hot exhaust gas out the tailpipe. That energy in the fuel is concentrated solar energy sequesterd millions of years ago so releasing it now adds to the earths heat budget. Solar panels on the other hand just move heat/solar energy from the place where the sun is shining to some other location and time (if a battery is used) with a net effect of zero to the heat budget.
As to the CO2 not sequestered by plants that can't grow under the panels it certainly would be better to place panels on roof tops , parking lots and desert areas where that is not a factor but even then we will probably never have enough surface area covered in temperate zones to make a difference in the total CO2 consumed by plants when you consider most of that happens in the oceans.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 02 Feb 2019, 09:06:53

Good points, vt.

In other news:

Dramatic improvement in Oslo air quality as Diesel cars are being replaced with EV's en masse
...the number of people affected by high air pollution has gone from 200,000 to 10,000. ...


Link >> https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 1.14408616

and:

Students Are Preparing for the First Major U.S. Climate Strike Next Month

https://earther.gizmodo.com/students-ar ... 1832260725

... “We now have to start being more direct. We’re not going to get anything done if we keep going by the rules”
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 02 Feb 2019, 10:16:08

The long being that any additional heat is too much for the population we are trying to sustain. So going from oil to electric MAY reduce the effect by 50% or 75% but it’s NOT zero.

Anything multiplied by 7.7 billion is a lot, too much.

It may be painful to hear but there is no escaping overshoot.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 02 Feb 2019, 13:27:26

Newfie wrote:The long being that any additional heat is too much for the population we are trying to sustain. So going from oil to electric MAY reduce the effect by 50% or 75% but it’s NOT zero.

Anything multiplied by 7.7 billion is a lot, too much.

It may be painful to hear but there is no escaping overshoot.

Again the heat generated from solar and other renewables is a wash while we burn 100 million barrels of oil and 22 million tons of coal (equivalent to another 100 million barrels of oil) each and every day. That is a lot of heat going out the smoke stacks and exhaust pipes. Worry about the oil and coal not the solar panels.
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