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President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:01:34

Pops wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Anyway, the question isn't what the Rs will do.....its what will the Ds do. The House of Representatives is in charge of impeachment,

The Senate is in charge of removal, and requires 60 votes.
You'll remember Clinton was impeach but not removed and his approval spiked to 75%
I call that the Full Gingrich
lol


Wrong. I'm surprised you never learned squat about the Constitution. It requires a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to remove a President by impeachment. Or 67 votes. Sue your high school for malpractice please. :roll:
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:04:23

vtsnowedin wrote:
Cog wrote:But you don't have the courage to back your prediction to the extent you will bet on it. I will bet you a $100 that Trump serves out his term. If you don't have the money or need to ask your wife's permission to wager it, I will understand.

Save the adhoms.


I gave you no adhoms. I merely said you did not have the courage of your convictions that he would be impeached. I make allowances for people who are either broke or hen-pecked. I don't judge them. I just observe.

Predictions are easy if there are no consequences to being wrong. That is why duffers make them. Put on your big boy pants and lets make this interesting.
Last edited by Cog on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:08:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:05:51

GHung wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:I see a stupid oversized meme but fail to see any rational discussion of the prediction I put forward.


So you want a rational discussion based on a truly irrational situation? Not sure that's rational.

It maybe an irrational situation but it is the one before us.
Consider this. The house can impeach for "high crimes and misdemeanors" . Any felony is higher then a misdemeanor so any one will do. The newly elected house certainly has the votes to impeach but then it goes to the Senate divided 53 to 47 needing 67 to convict. So from the Dems point of view they only need to convince 20 or 21 (to be safe and not have one with all the power) republicans to become convinced their future re-election chances are better without Trump than with him.
In private there are probably 30 established Republicans that already think that way and with the mid term results can see the writing on the wall.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:14:32

You left wingers still haven't presented evidence of a crime. Anonymous sources on the Daily Beast, won't be admissible even in a House impeachment debate, much less a trial in the Senate.

But I digress. I know that hope springs eternal among the Dems that Hillary will take her rightful place in the White House, because the Orangeman(Literally Hitler) stole the election from her with Russian help.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Pops » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:17:18

GHung wrote:Trump, especially. I'm a hard-core Independent and have no special affinity (or disdain) for either party. It's tough being a non-binary person in today's America, and both parties have made that problematic, drawing lines moving far right/left, rejecting balance and pragmatism on party grounds. Trump is both unbalanced and unbalancing, and I consider his form of chaos dangerous in these times.

Pretty sure he has no real friends. That says a lot.

Gotcha.
My tendencies are liberal and anti-authoritarian so I tend to vote D pretty well exclusively on statewide and national elections, though if I don't know enough about a local election I abstain. But I always vote, I think it is the no 1 civic duty along with jury service.
My biggest gripe is big money, which inevitably corrupts the system. Electing a conman who's entire existence is putting it over on people for a profit is the height of the depravity. I hope the trend to small donors and rejecting the PACs and big money continues. (to stay on topic Ill say the Ds continuing that trend is my prediction #4 (or 5) :) )
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:19:49

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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:32:37

Pops, I think anybody with Roger Stone running their presidential campaign could take the nomination of either major party in any election. Maybe you did not understand that NYC residents are largely D's.

In spite of his rapacious robber baron behaviors, Donald Trump was a registered Democrat most of his life. In social matters, he's very liberal D. In business matters, he is very much for Trump, and not at all for any of the oligarchs who own the other R's.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:45:47

Pops wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Anyway, the question isn't what the Rs will do.....its what will the Ds do. The House of Representatives is in charge of impeachment,


The Senate is in charge of removal, and requires 60 votes.


Of course. But there isn't any point in worrying about that until the House of Representatives passes articles of impeachment.

And the Ds control the House of Representatives. That means the Ds are in complete control of whether or not Trump is impeached.

And, in spite of the blather from some Ds in Congress and the MSM about impeachment, there is no sign that Nancy Pelosi and her cabal of elderly D leaders in the House will allow such a vote to occur.

Cheers!
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Pops » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 18:52:01

KaiserJeep wrote:Pops, I think anybody with Roger Stone running their presidential campaign could take the nomination of either major party in any election. Maybe you did not understand that NYC residents are largely D's.

In spite of his rapacious robber baron behaviors, Donald Trump was a registered Democrat most of his life. In social matters, he's very liberal D. In business matters, he is very much for Trump, and not at all for any of the oligarchs who own the other R's.

NYC? he got 18% of the vote in NYC, LOL

Barry was pretty popular, on the birther thing alone trump would not have made it a week as D.
But most any of thousands of idiotic tweets would have disqualified him, as well as being an idiotic "billionaire" reality show poser with a penchant for whining

Trump won by flipping white voters who are afraid of brown people, and feel like they themselves are discriminated against - just like the billionaire, and as I mentioned weren't aware that Ds had become the party of non-whites until Barry showed his face. Not to take anything away from Hilly, she was a terrible candidate with no message and the opposite of trumps victim, she assumed she was anointed. She should have won at a walk but triangulated herself into oblivion.

Indicators of trump support:

1)Republicans - obviously

2)Fears about cultural displacement. White working-class voters who say they often feel like a stranger in their own land and who believe the U.S. needs protecting against foreign influence were 3.5 times more likely to favor Trump than those who did not share these concerns.

3)Support for deporting immigrants living in the country illegally. White working-class voters who favored deporting immigrants living in the country illegally were 3.3 times more likely to express a preference for Trump than those who did not.

4)Economic fatalism. White working-class voters who said that college education is a gamble were almost twice as likely to express a preference for Trump as those who said it was an important investment in the future.
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The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Pops » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 18:58:42

Plantagenet wrote:
Pops wrote:
The Senate is in charge of removal, and requires 60 votes.

Oops, that should be 67 votes, 2/3 of the Senate
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 21:03:09

Pops, Roger Stone reportedly earned an $8M fee for running Trump's campaign, first publicly then from the shadows. If you can do better, I'd say you should cash in. Philosophicly, Trump is more Libertarian than either R or D, but that party seldom wins. But we are also long past the days of the Bull Moose party or the other numerous flavors of populism in our past:

- Andrew Jackson was a Populist before founding the modern Democrats.
- Teddy Rooseveldt tore apart the Republicans in 1904, and still won as a "Progressive",aka the Bull Moose Party.
- William Jennings Bryan (of Scopes Monkey Trial fame) ran for POTUS as a Populist in 1896, 1900, and 1908, but never won. He served as Secretary of State for Woodrow Wilson.
- George Wallace ran as a Populist in 1968 after failing to get the candidacy as a Democrat, and lost.
- Pat Buchanan failed to get the Republican nomination in 1996, then ran as the Reform party candidate in 2000.
- John Edwards and Bernie Sanders, although both technically Democrats, were noted for Populist ideals.

As for Trump in 2020, he'll do what he decides to do, but he's not likely to lose.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 09:31:20

Pops wrote:
GHung wrote:Trump, especially. I'm a hard-core Independent and have no special affinity (or disdain) for either party. It's tough being a non-binary person in today's America, and both parties have made that problematic, drawing lines moving far right/left, rejecting balance and pragmatism on party grounds. Trump is both unbalanced and unbalancing, and I consider his form of chaos dangerous in these times.

Pretty sure he has no real friends. That says a lot.

Gotcha.
My tendencies are liberal and anti-authoritarian so I tend to vote D pretty well exclusively on statewide and national elections, though if I don't know enough about a local election I abstain. But I always vote, I think it is the no 1 civic duty along with jury service.
My biggest gripe is big money, which inevitably corrupts the system. Electing a conman who's entire existence is putting it over on people for a profit is the height of the depravity. I hope the trend to small donors and rejecting the PACs and big money continues. (to stay on topic Ill say the Ds continuing that trend is my prediction #4 (or 5) :) )


Pardon me for asking, but what in the D party is anti authoritarian? They get us into as many wars as the R's, they pass thousands of laws and regulations restricting personal freedom just like the R's. I would call the D party many things, but never anti authoritarian!
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Pops » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 12:54:58

Subjectivist wrote:Pardon me for asking, but what in the D party is anti authoritarian? They get us into as many wars as the R's, they pass thousands of laws and regulations restricting personal freedom just like the R's. I would call the D party many things, but never anti authoritarian!

The root word of "authoritarian" is authority, do you think really dirty hippies cum slacker millennials and antifa anarchists would be attracted to the party of authority?
LOL

As in all things political, one's view of what is authoritarianism, depends on what one finds important. If you are pissed about, say, rules against smoking in restaurants, having your dog vaccinated for rabies, or maybe putting on your seatbelt then yeah, Ds are authoritarian. Nanny state and all that.

If on the other hand you view authoritarianism as the opposition to basic civil liberties like universal suffrage, equal rights, rule of law (as opposed to just "tough on crime") and delegitimizing democratic institutions, then you likely see Ds as, well, democratic rather than autocratic. See: "[the press is] the enemy of the people", "don't be so gentle when you put them in the car", "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment", "We're running against a rigged system", oh and: "They're sending rapists" and on and on.

Not trying to diminish Ds penchant for big government. They are definitely for big rules that infringe on the income of the ownership, holding them responsible for the costs they try to offload on society : consumer protection, environmental regs, CAFE standards, etc.

Point being, I believe we have innate values that range along a spectrum, what I value is not what someone else may value even though we call it by the same name. But if I have to point that out to you, I'll never convince you will I?
Regardless here is the picture

Image

Drawing on the work of many anthropologists (particularly Richard Shweder at the University of Chicago) and many evolutionary biologists and psychologists, my colleagues and I came to the conclusion that there are six best candidates for being the taste buds of the moral mind: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Liberty/Oppression, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, and Sanctity/Degradation.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/2 ... -fairness/
ttp://www.ethicsdefined.org/the-problem ... -liberals/
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 13:56:20

Which party supports gun control, including making law abiding citizens felons, based on the type of guns they have or the capacity of the magazines which they bought legally. Ask the gun-owners in New Jersey whose government just made them all potential felons by owning magazines over ten rounds capacity. I'm pretty sure they would tell you which party is authoritarian.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 14:46:00

Pops wrote:... do you think ... antifa .... would be attracted to the party of authority?


?????

As far as I'm concerned, Antifa are not only are attracted to authority ----they are intrinsically authoritarian. The whole purpose of Antifa is to limit what other people can say through violence and intimidation.

Any group that uses physical force to take away other people's freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is authoritarian in my book.

Thats not to say that the groups that antifa doesn't like are any more admirable or correct in what they say then antifa is....but in the US we have a tradition of freedom of speech and we have the US Constitution with the bill of rights that guarantees freedom of speech for all---and opposed to that we have authoritarian groups like antifa want to subvert and limit freedom of speech and dictate what can and cannot be said.

Cheers!
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Pops » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 16:42:40

Plantagenet wrote:As far as I'm concerned, Antifa are not only are attracted to authority ----they are intrinsically authoritarian. The whole purpose of Antifa is to limit what other people can say through violence and intimidation.

Their purpose is to oppose fascists and proto-nazis, it's right there in the name. Once upon a time the purpose of a whole generation of Americans was to oppose fascism, nazism, authoritarianism. I'm floored by how that's changed.
Last edited by Pops on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 17:18:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 16:52:35

Antifa is a terrorist organization who suppresses free speech from anyone who goes outside Marxist theology. Anyway, free speech is for everyone. Not just the speech that pleases my ears. There would be no need for the first amendment if everything I don't like can be considered hate speech.

There are people right here on this board who consider anyone who voted for Trump as either a fascist or Nazi. All 60 million of us. People like Pops believe this.

Here is your "peaceful" Antifa rioting and burning on the Berkley campus. Own them Pops. They are your group.

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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 16:59:28

Pops wrote:Their purpose is to oppose fascists and proo-nazis, it's right there in the name.


In politics its always wise to look at politicians actually do rather then what they say.

Its the same with creepy extremist groups.

For instance...do you think the leftist Symbionese Liberation Army was all about liberating people, just because it was in their name? Same deal with antifa---they want to shut down free speech. As someone who believes in free speech, and spent some time in Berkeley, home of the free speech movement, I think antifa is very dangerous. Look what they do---they stop free speech. Thats a cardinal crime, IMHO. Our freedoms start with freedom of speech. Thats why its the first right in the Bill of Rights.

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But but but they have "liberation" right in their name!!!!
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Pops » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 17:19:40

You've successfully changed the topic again, bravo
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: President Trump's 2019-2020 predictions

Unread postby Cog » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 17:20:59

Pops wrote:You've successfully changed the topic again, bravo


And you have successfully slithered away when the topic goes against you.
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