[Cog]

This and much worse will happen. What was the military objective achieved by dropping two atom bombs on Japan in WW2?

[Outcast_Searcher]

This and much worse will happen. What was the military objective achieved by dropping two atom bombs on Japan in WW2?

Supposedly (according to what I learned in school), it was to get the Japanese to surrender, saving lots and lots of American soldier's lives.

Doesn't make it right -- but there was a military objective at the time.

[Cog]

I was over the top with crucifying people crossing the border. But the point is this. At a certain point the use of lethal force to stop people at the border must be considered.

[Cog]

A short video done by an I'm bedded reporter with the refugees. It's pure economics. As well as a left agenda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwAnqPoYdSg

[evilgenius]

I was over the top with crucifying people crossing the border. But the point is this. At a certain point the use of lethal force to stop people at the border must be considered.

What is the country losing that you believe it gives the country the right to kill rather than detain? It would seem that the cost of organizing a proper means of detention is enough to warrant killing. Obviously, if the parents now permanently separated from their children are any indication of the state of American detention capabilities, the US has to spend a whole lot more money on the problem. They not only have to build the facilities, but ramp up the legal system to deal with all of those people. Your argument seems one, therefore, of paying lower taxes in the face of real need. You seem to object to reality, which will return in some other form no matter how you try to eradicate it.

You should consider what would happen to a cell if its membrane was as selective in allowing things in as you want the US border to be. The outcome would certainly be death by lack of nutrients or oxygen. The analogy holds for immigrants because of the structure of the US job market. The US needs so many immigrants. If you had said something about how AI is going to change work, then I could see your point. But you aren't saying anything about that, and its resultant sea change to the nature of the job market and immigrants. Nor have you hinted about the change it will bring to our viewpoints concerning our fellow citizens. I've labored on trying to convince people like you about the importance of culture as well, which is like the structures inside of the cell which direct the incoming packages to where they can be put to use. Immigrants are no problem if you assimilate them. They aren't really taking your job. They are challenging your viewpoint of the country as something that can always be seen in the context of one moment in time, say a year in the decade of the 50's, in your case.

Otherwise, you are actually working against the history of the United States. Your argument is at cross purposes to the fact that the US is made up of immigrants. Did you ever play that game with the other school children when you were little where you went round declaring that so and so you knew about, or maybe even some part of your own family, could claim that their family history went all the way back to the Mayflower? The lesson obviously drawn from the childish blathering being that none of you that were present in the classroom could claim that. It's actually quite rare. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It's painful in a country of immigrants to hear someone like you talk about closing the door behind them, so as to keep the rest of them out.

[Cog]

Because legal immigrants are not the issue. Illegal aliens are. There is a distinction. The USA can not absorb millions of illegal aliens coming in from south of the border. No country could. Our social welfare system is already under strain and is consuming vast parts of the federal budget.

[vtsnowedin]

This and much worse will happen. What was the military objective achieved by dropping two atom bombs on Japan in WW2?

Supposedly (according to what I learned in school), it was to get the Japanese to surrender, saving lots and lots of American soldier's lives.

Doesn't make it right -- but there was a military objective at the time.

It also save literally millions of Japanese lives both military and civilian. The battle for Okinawa where about half the civilian population died along with about 100,000 Japanese soldiers was a grim forecast of the cost of defeating the Japanese mainland with conventional forces.

[evilgenius]

Because legal immigrants are not the issue. Illegal aliens are. There is a distinction. The USA can not absorb millions of illegal aliens coming in from south of the border. No country could. Our social welfare system is already under strain and is consuming vast parts of the federal budget.

Really, what you are saying is that rather than being inputs to the cell, those people are a virus. I don't think that's true. Actually, I'll put to you, that it is the fact those people are illegal that holds down wages more than the fact that they are competing for jobs.

It's the fact that they operate somewhat outside the system of rights which the country recognizes that allows for that. But that is just as much the fault of Americans not recognizing certain rights as universal rather than tied to citizenship as it is the ignorance of those rights on the part of those who are laboring. But the law needs people to seek redress of grievances before it will act. How are they going to do that as long as they remain unassimilated? Heck, even American citizens will not engage in industrial action anymore. They would prefer to believe they have no rights and seek employment elsewhere, as if that situation were like buying and selling stocks.

Doesn't the permanence of that, the emotional state of the argument which you insist upon, guarantee that a subculture and a pseudo-economy will exist on the part of illegals? It is a measure, the size of that pseudo-economy, of what sort of value your position, which asserts illegality by not agreeing to the nature of the country as being composed of immigrants, is robbing the country of.

[Cog]

What part of breaking the law by crossing the border illegally do you not understand? You sound like a European.

No such thing as universal rights. Only a globalist/socialist would make that sort of argument.

[KaiserJeep]

The systems and services that are being abused by illegals are Welfare, Social Security, Employment assistance, job training, education, and health services. These are funded and administered for citizens and legal foriegn workers with work permits, who have SSN's and who pay taxes on monies earned.

My daughter's High School, for example, had 20-25% more Hispanic students than they were budgeted for. About 40% of the kids had to have ESL (English as a second Language) or they had NO HOPE of keeping up with other subjects. These kids actually were from transient populations South of the school district.

Then there is the silly "catch and release" policies for petty criminals, or even violent offenders. Until someone has been convicted of a crime, they are presumed innocent and most often make bail. Then they simply give another name the next time they are caught, as none have ID. I live in a sanctuary city in a sanctuary county in a sanctuary state. I have also served on gang banger juries, and it reaches the level of the absurd. I listened to a Defense Attorney argue that just because somebody had a tattoo that said "MS13" on his neck, could not be construed as evidence of his actual membership in that "outlaw gang".

You should try living in a state where 20% of the people - one out of five - are illegals. California alone is the fourth largest economy in the world, but we can no longer afford to support the river of illegal immigrants streaming over our S border.

We need a wall, and border enforcement, and armed drones to provide air support when the border enforcement is breached. It has never not been true that breaching a country's borders could get a person killed. We are at that point today.

Long term, if we are ever to get to the point where we can care adequately for the land we live in, we have to curb and then reverse population growth. The actual population that I believe can be sustained long term in the USA is below 100 million people. Closing our borders for a century would get us there, I believe.

[vtsnowedin]

It has never not been true that breaching a country's borders could get a person killed

Are you forgetting the Berlin wall?

[KaiserJeep]

It has never not been true that breaching a country's borders could get a person killed

Are you forgetting the Berlin wall?

Are you missing my double negative? Many people were killed by Soviet guards while attempting to scale the Berlin Wall.

Look, I don't take this position without a lot of thought. I believe that long term we MUST reduce the US population to 100 million or less. This can be done either by eliminating illegal immigration, or done even quicker by eliminating all immigration.

I would buy into either plan. However the one alternative that is clearly not going to work is open, unenforced borders. I live in a place where we have had such for decades, and frankly the bad effects of unimpeded immigration are driving me from what is otherwise a very nice place to live.

OF COURSE, I feel sympathy for the plight of the disadvantaged. However, I am not about to tolerate the rapid disintegration of the USA and it's culture to allow unimpeded immigration from South and Central America, either.

[Plantagenet]

I am not about to tolerate the rapid disintegration of the USA and it's culture to allow unimpeded immigration from South and Central America, either.

There isn't much you can do about it.

Once the Ds win the election in 2020, look for them to allow much more immigration from south and central America. Its what the D base wants.

Cheers!

[Cog]

You know there was a presidential election in 1864 in which none of the states in rebellion participated in. Just some food for thought.

[vtsnowedin]

Once the Ds win the election in 2020, look for them to allow much more immigration from south and central America. Its what the D base wants.

Cheers!

That will be a major issue in the 2020 campaign and along with the impeachment efforts of this new congress may well cost the Dems that election.
The Kavanaugh hearings have shown that the Democrats have no insight to when they have gone too far and are losing votes. I expect the next two years to be full missteps and misconduct and think 2020 is very much up for grabs.

[longpig]

Non whites always vote for democrats in America and they do even in their own countries (socialist governments), the people who rule those society run by saying they will tax the well off to pay for them but every time they keep getting poorer but they are too stupid and will continue to vote for socialism and keep getting poorer until it collapses and the idiots have to eat rats to survive like in Venezuela.

[GHung]

Non whites always vote for democrats in America and they do even in their own countries (socialist governments), the people who rule those society run by saying they will tax the well off to pay for them but every time they keep getting poorer but they are too stupid and will continue to vote for socialism and keep getting poorer until it collapses and the idiots have to eat rats to survive like in Venezuela.

"Non whites"? That would be most of the people on the planet,, right?

[mmasters]

I am not about to tolerate the rapid disintegration of the USA and it's culture to allow unimpeded immigration from South and Central America, either.

There isn't much you can do about it.

Once the Ds win the election in 2020, look for them to allow much more immigration from south and central America. Its what the D base wants.

Cheers!

Do you seriously think the Ds are going to win in 2020?

[GHung]

I am not about to tolerate the rapid disintegration of the USA and it's culture to allow unimpeded immigration from South and Central America, either.

There isn't much you can do about it.

Once the Ds win the election in 2020, look for them to allow much more immigration from south and central America. Its what the D base wants.

Cheers!

Do you seriously think the Ds are going to win in 2020?

Do you seriously think that's impossible?

[longpig]

This slope GHung thinks so and I think probably too it will turn into shit with crap everywhere.