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Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 22:09:35

Check Out New Thermal Testing Data (Official Lab):

All below taken from company website:

http://www.nansulate.com/thermal_insulation_data.htm

Laboratory Testing

Standard Test Method for Steady-State Thermal Performance of Building Assemblies

(UNI EN ISO 8990:1999 - similar to ASTM C236)

Description: Two wall samples are tested according to test standards for a variety of thermal measurements including thermal flow, thermal conductance and thermal resistance.
The sample sizes are 120x120x10 cm (approx. 4 ft x 4 ft x 0.3 ft) and they are tested at a mean temperature of 15 deg. C (59 deg. F). One wall sample is non treated, meaning it is plaster + normal water-based paint. The other wall sample is plaster + 3 coats of Nansulate® translucent coating.

Testing was done by the accredited laboratory Istituto di Richerche E Collaudi - a certifying body for the Italian Government.
http://www.istitutomasini.it/eng/1/index.aspx?i=41

Results:
Thermal flow, measured in watts, through the wall section coated with Nansulate® was reduced by 34.80%

Thermal resistance (1/U), measured in m2*k*w1, of the wall section coated with Nansulate® was increased by 28.98%


----------------------------

p.s. The person here who accepted my offer to test the product (on my dime) went AWOL. It was a good thought, though. Traded some private messages to get the ball rolling, then he disappeared. Hope things are Ok; tough times are common lately it seems.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Nefarious » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 22:22:11

sandshark wrote:p.s. The person here who accepted my offer to test the product (on my dime) went AWOL. It was a good thought, though. Traded some private messages to get the ball rolling, then he disappeared. Hope things are Ok; tough times are common lately it seems.


I will step up to the plate on this and take my lick. Things got really busy at work and still are luckily. I don't know if I would truly have time to run a test on it. Although I would like to. We just started two new divisions at the office that I oversee on top of the three I already oversee.

My sincerest apologies.

If you are still interested I'll give you my business email and we could correspond better, but It might take some time to do (month or so) but I understand if you aren't. again my apologies.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 04:00:13

I'd be willing to take a look if it's easily available in UK.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 10:15:06

Quinny, their UK distributor can be reached at:

UNITED KINGDOM Exclusive Distributor
Weltex UK Ltd.
7 Prestwick Close, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK10 2TH, UK
Phone: +44 (0)1524782287 or Mobile: +44 (0)7831360663 OR +44 (0)7860449055
Email: contact@nansulate.co.uk
Website: http://www.nansulate.co.uk

Residential Case Studies:
http://www.nansulate.com/nansulate_resi ... tudies.htm

Here's a case study via their UK distributor (for industrial customer Bandvulc Tyres in the UK)
http://www.nansulate.com/pdf/CaseStudie ... udy_UK.pdf

The reason I'm so sure it works is... I've tried it myself. If I hadn't, then I wouldn't be so confident in the info I'm pulling off their website to share here.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 10:25:15

Nefarious, no worries at all. I figured it was just one of those "sh*t happens" type of things with work being busy, or worse (in this economy).

I did send another fellow (not from this site, but another I like) a gallon of the Home Protect Clear Coat. He did the simple hot water heater pipe test immediately, and it knocked his socks off. It was really fun to watch his curiosity and skepticism turn into "Wow, it really does work, just like you said it would!". Honestly, he could hardly believe it but he saw it with his own eyes.

So, I've spent the $ I was going to use to send you a gallon, but I'm still very interested because I know you are an expert/professional tester and the other person is a layman. Maybe once I have the $ again, we can still do the testing we chatted about via PM? I'd like to, but have to be careful about spending $ carelessly... though this is a better cause than beer at the pub. lol

Maybe we can chat on it via PM sometime once schedules and $$ free up a bit.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Sun 15 Feb 2009, 13:35:53

Hey all, just to follow-up since it's been a while. I think we've put to rest the debate about whether the Nansulate product is "legit" or not. It is legit. I have proven that using facts.

The only question is whether it's the preferred/wanted or cost effective solution in each particular case. It's not always the needed solution, nor is it always the cheapest, but it certainly has a lot of good and valid value-added applications.

If there's any particular item of question or doubt, please let me know and I'll check to see if there's some proof/facts to enlighten you. If there isn't, then I'll admit it openly of course. It's not an easy thing taking a new/novel product to market, obviously, but it does seem they're building up some pretty good and valid information as to this being legitimate.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 03 Dec 2011, 18:02:11

Nefarious wrote:I will step up to the plate on this and take my lick. Things got really busy at work and still are luckily. I don't know if I would truly have time to run a test on it. Although I would like to. We just started two new divisions at the office that I oversee on top of the three I already oversee.

My sincerest apologies.

If you are still interested I'll give you my business email and we could correspond better, but It might take some time to do (month or so) but I understand if you aren't. again my apologies.


Did Nefarious or anyone else ever get around to doing a real world test on this stuff? If so what was the application and what were your results?
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sat 03 Dec 2011, 23:15:48

Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
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Re: Is this product, Nonsulate, legit?

Unread postby tsimshianman » Fri 17 Feb 2012, 14:40:31

I am somewhat curious if this product is tested and certified in North America. Your website indicates you are located in Florida yet you don't show standard testing for the North American market (ASTM)? Yes you show one from Italy but that doesn't cut it in North America. If this product is such a proven product then getting the necessary certifications in every country is a no-brainer especially in the country of origin. All I see on here is a bunch of sales hype. This posting goes back to 2008 yet your product is still NOT a household name in 2012. If your performance claims were true then you should have had numerous tests done by now by independent labs for the entire North American market which is one of the largest in the world to fully support your claims. If your sales are so high then cost surerly is not a factor.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby STAHRMAN » Fri 11 May 2012, 15:19:27

I am as curious as the next person. Is this stuff also water proof? From the standpoint of an RV live-in-er, (l- 35' w-9-1/2') I am curious, bc my fiberglass roof has microcracks in it and they leak when it rains, If I could kill 2 birds with one stone, I think I would be money ahead.
Esp. on an outside coating scenario.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby TrueTribeca » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 20:14:48

‘Insulating’ Paint Merchants Dupe Gullible Homeowners
Posted on Sep 11 by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor
http://hurricanehouse.org/Kellett_Lumbe ... _News.html
Putting “insulating” paint to the test. To measure the effectiveness of Nansulate and Super Therm — two paints that are touted for their “insulating” properties — researchers built 3-foot-high test boxes with 2x4 frames and OSB sheathing. The walls of the boxes were insulated with fiberglass batts, while the lids were insulated with 4 in. of extruded polystyrene. The interior walls and ceilings of the boxes were finished with painted drywall.
Scammers have been selling “insulating” paint to gullible consumers for at least 27 years. Among the exaggerated claims made by distributors of these overpriced cans of paint is that the “low-e” coatings will “lower energy bills.” In addition to liquid paint, some fraudsters sell powders or paint additives, usually described as “miracle” products containing “micro-spheres” or “ceramic beads.”
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 20 Nov 2018, 16:34:14

Press Release 01/04/18 | Industrial Nanotech, Inc. Provides 2018 Shareholder Update

NAPLES, FL—(January 4, 2018) - Industrial Nanotech, Inc. (OTC PINK: INTK), a global leader in nanotechnology-based energy saving solutions, today announced a shareholder update on company progress and corporate developments.


“Our strategy is working. Our first focus in Q4 2016 and all of 2017 was consistent profitability. Through cost cutting measures and increased focus on our more profitable product lines and customers, we have accomplished that task and we have accomplished 12 months of profitability through the end of 2017,” states Stuart Burchill, CEO/CTO of Industrial Nanotech, Inc. “Now we begin 2018 in a high revenue growth rate phase, created by continuing to cultivate and expand our relationships with our core customers and market sectors:


1) Fortune 500 Companies including, but not limited to: General Motors, International Paper, Toyota, Post, Shell Oil, Exxon, PepsiCo, Johnson & Johnson, Kellogg’s, Anheuser-Busch InBev, Samsung, and Fluor Corporation. All of these companies are either currently purchasing the Company’s products and expanding their use throughout their organization or actively in the due diligence and education/training phase prior to implementation of the use of the Company’s products.


2) Worldwide Distributors including, but not limited to: three distributors and a growing team of independent representatives in the United States, and our current network of seven well established companies representing the Company’s products in England, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Africa, South Africa, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, The Philippines, Indonesia, Australia, Chile, Pakistan, Dubai and Saudi Arabia.


3) New Product Development: The Company continues to work on new technologies including combined thermal insulation and corrosion prevention products that are not coatings and super high temperature thermal insulation coatings for release in 2018. Additional new products and technologies are in the early R & D stages.”


Stuart Burchill continues, “In addition, we continue to work to enhance shareholder value by increasing profitability which, in turn, we will utilize to fuel increased revenue growth while simultaneously cleaning up our balance sheet and capitalization structure and bringing our reporting and audit requirements current in preparation for application to list on a more senior exchange.”

Additional information will be provided to shareholders periodically through upcoming press releases and continually at the Company’s Facebook page and corporate website:

www.facebook.com/INIWorldwide/

http://www.ini-worldwide.com


For additional information, please contact the Company’s Investor Relations Firm at:

info@valuecorptrading.com
www.valuecorptrading.com
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby GHung » Tue 20 Nov 2018, 18:02:17

Deception and fraud

There are deceptive companies that are marketing "insulating paint" for many applications who are engaged in a scam, and several such companies have been forced to cease their marketing practices after receiving warning letters from the Federal Trade Commission.[1] These companies are merely riding the coat tails of legitimate companies engaged in the ceramic and coatings industries and are more marketing than substance. They incorporate materials such as glass spheres or fly ash into low quality paints. Scammers have been selling “insulating” paint to gullible consumers for at least 27 years. Two companies that offer insulating paint are Super Therm and Nansulate. The CCHRC (Cold Climate Housing Research Center) researchers concluded that “there was no discernible difference in the performance of the Super Therm or Nansulate in comparison to regular latex paint during the energy monitoring tests.” [2], and they also said “Such products have the primary goal of reducing solar absorption to decrease air conditioning loads. Such considerations were not included in our tests, as they are not considered of primary importance for Alaska’s climate.”
.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulativ ... _and_fraud


Also: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/ar ... homeowners
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 20 Nov 2018, 18:11:45

As your citation points out the product is designed for warm climates so saying it failed Alaskan cold climate tests is hardly indicative of fraud.

I have no dog in the fight, but I try and judge things by the facts. The fact that the product is still for sale a decade after it was first introduced tends to indicate that it is popular if not totally effective under all conditions.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby GHung » Tue 20 Nov 2018, 18:17:55

Tanada wrote:As your citation points out the product is designed for warm climates so saying it failed Alaskan cold climate tests is hardly indicative of fraud.

I have no dog in the fight, but I try and judge things by the facts. The fact that the product is still for sale a decade after it was first introduced tends to indicate that it is popular if not totally effective under all conditions.


From the second link:

The same as ordinary paint

Every researcher who has examined these products has concluded that there is no such thing as insulating paint. For example, tests at the Florida Solar Energy Center confirm that these paints are nothing special: “The Florida Solar Energy Center has tested ceramic paints and found them to have no significant advantage over ordinary paint in terms of their ability to retard heat gains through exterior building surfaces.”


Every few years, the sleepy regulators at the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) wake up long enough to send warning letters to the most egregious paint scammers. For example, in 2002 the FTC clamped down on Kryton Coatings International, a manufacturer which claimed that its paint was equivalent to 7 in. of fiberglass insulation. In March 2009, the FTC took action against Sumpolec, a marketer of coatings that were said to “equal R-100 insulating value.”

To find them, just lift a few rocks

In spite of these rare actions, however, marketers of “insulating” paint continue to thrive. With a simple Google search, any Web surfer can conjure up dozens of distributors of insulating paint, including those hawking Nansulate and Super Therm.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 20 Nov 2018, 18:53:56

GHung wrote:
Deception and fraud They incorporate materials such as glass spheres or fly ash into low quality paints. Scammers have been selling “insulating” paint to gullible consumers for at least 27 years. Two companies that offer insulating paint are Super Therm and Nansulate.
.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulativ ... _and_fraud


Well, except Nansulate does NOT seem to be selling paint. Their website makes very clear that they are selling a powder paint additive. If Wiki can't manage to get this fact right, how much should their other claims here be trusted?

I have no dog in this fight either, but when Tanada's argument seems rather good, and when trying to deduce what might be true, blatant inaccuracies like that don't help a source's credibility, re the subject. (i.e. how much investigation, fact checking, proof reading did they do? (or the article the text comes from?)

OTOH, I find myself highly skeptical that mere paint addatives can make a significant difference for insulation without solid proof. Effective insulation takes space - it has "stuff" that requires volume. To change that would seem to be a major breakthrough.

...

But like Tanada says, if this is just a fraud, then why so much success, and so many huge companies as customers? Are such companies all easily duped over time? Companies care about money.

So I think the jury is out here. Maybe it's just a relatively small but impressive effect -- given that it's just paint additive, for example.

Of course, real controlled tests providing NUMBERS of how effective the insulation is for case X, detailing the test specs would be most helpful. From BOTH the company and the accuser. Without tests like that, claims of insulating properties to a meaningful level could, IMO, be as thin as paint (as long as they're nonzero), without actually breaking the law.

So there's that. Because if I ran a compnay and wanted to convince customers that my insulator was great, I'd sure as hell want to provide objective data with real test cases.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby GHung » Tue 20 Nov 2018, 19:23:37

Why so much success? There's a sucker born every minute? But if you guys can find any independent tests or studies showing that this stuff works as advertised, I would love to see it. I'm skeptical because your government spent a lot of money training me to understand thermodynamics and heat transfer, an education I continued in later years. Whatever form the product is marketed in, it would have to be a near perfect insulator and/or reflector. Further, if it worked so well it would be used EVERYWHERE; car paint, refrigeration, heating appliances..... There are too many uses for such a product for them to have to resort to high-pressure marketing, often multi-level pyramid style marketing schemes and pump-and-dump OTC investment programs. If it makes you feel better, they had a big thing going with Petrobras back around 2007 to coat pipelines or somesuch. Not sure what came of that.

Industrial Nanotech:

Image

Today's close --> Last Updated: Nov 20, 2018 5:19 p.m. EST Delayed quote $0.0036

That must be some great stuff, eh?
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 21 Nov 2018, 13:54:37

GHung wrote:Why so much success? There's a sucker born every minute?

Well, this sucker, as I said above, would want to see serious results via certified testing. And since it's not obvious they're out there, remains skeptical.

I suppose it's too expensive to mandate such tests be certified as to performance for ALL substances manufactured and sold (not just food, drugs, certain chemicals, electrical products, etc). But if buyers don't demand such results, it is amazing that much of such things get sold at all. I'll fully concede that.

...

And in the real world, even things like electrical products don't all come with UL listings. And while the bad ones MAY not be super dangerous, they can certainly be on the market with horrendous reliability ratings, customer reviews, etc. And sold by lots of major retailers, both online and big box, in the US. I recently ran into this when replacing a ceiling fan bulb with that weird (to this layman) "twist and lock" connection with two pins instead of screws. You can buy these conversion units to normal screws cheap. Problem is, they have horrendous quality, durability, and could cause a fire. No UL listing. Yet Amazon, Home Depot, etc. sells them. Despite all the customer complaints. (I'll just buy the expensive bulbs, thank you.)
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Zarquon » Mon 11 Feb 2019, 21:06:00

It's funny that last week I asked regular posters on this board why they spend so much time here arguing with nutters. I think rockdoc said something about a service to humanity. Now that I saw this ancient thread, a decade old, I feel I could have added a little to the debate back then.

Except that sandshark very obviously wasn't a nutter, just a sockpuppet:
Viewing profile - sandshark - Peak Oil News and Message Boards
Most active topic:
Is this product, Nansulate, legit?
(42 Posts / 100.00% of user’s posts)

OK, here's my two cents: around 2002, as a student, I worked at a German uni institute for building and solar tech. I remember a small company (not sure if it was Nansulate or some similar scam) paying us a few bucks for a quick independent test of its NASA-developed (or NASA-tested or NASA-approved?) space paint, basically white paint with "insulating nano-balls" in it, that they were introducing in Germany. I didn't work on that myself, but I remember talking to my colleagues about it and I worked in the office where the test was set up. No engineer and no physicist at the institute believed the stuff would turn out to be anything but a scam but we diligently ran the test we were paid for.

From memory: we used two uninsulated, unpainted concrete pillars in the facade and covered the inner (room) side of one in two coats of space paint, as per the company's wishes. The other, untreated pillar was identical and about 15 ft away. We then put a thermal sensor - calibrated PT-100 IIRC, still good for less than 0.1°C accuracy at that temperature - on the surface of each and another in a hole an inch or so in the concrete. Data from all four sensors was logged every couple of minutes. I don't remember how long we ran the test, but I think it was at least two weeks in winter. The results were exactly as expected: two coats of white space paint did not raise the surface or subsurface temperature enough for the difference between the pillars to be measurable. We sent them the results and didn't hear from them again but IIRC they at least paid the bill.

Hehe, so the other sockpuppet (Knox-something) from ten years ago was actually right when he claimed that the R-value of insulating paint could not be measured. A nonsensical claim unless seen in this particular context.

And the original sockpuppet actually said the total k-value of the paint coat (not only the nanoballs) *might* be around 0.03: that's even plausible. And that puts it roughly in the same class as the better kinds of rockwool or PU foam. Applied to your wall in a, let's say, 0.5mm coating does... what to your heating bill? Exactly.

But like Tanada says, if this is just a fraud, then why so much success, and so many huge companies as customers? Are such companies all easily duped over time? Companies care about money.


Exactly. Give my company's janitor a dozen gallons of white paint for free and you can legally list me as a customer. Or just hope that the legal department of my multibillion corporation doesn't have the time to check *all* invoices from the past couple of years to see if anybody really bought a gallon of patented space paint.

then why so much success?


http://www.ini-worldwide.com/news/
"On the Bronx Boiler in the pics below... 6 coats on the boiler end caps (hottest area): Before temp: 260F after 4 hours measured: 150F. Only 1.5 millimeter thickness (0.0591 inches thick). That is nanotechnology at work preventing burn injury and reducing energy costs and consumption. Hoping this leads to 1000's of boilers in buildings in NY City and beyond!"

The hottest (and only) project on their 2019 news page is a small boiler in NYC, painted with "amazing thermal insulation coating on Nov. 14, 2017". I vaguely understand their business is also extremely hot in Southeast Asia. No pun intended.

BTW, if you want to know more about their products, click the links on their website. Oh, wait, they all lead to the contacts page. No product info, no project info, no addresses of retailers or partners, no nothing. They have a phone number in FL, though. And their extremely hot business has no email address, but apparently a facebook page. Maybe you can befriend them there and ask for details.

P.S.: If some DIY magazine really listed the stuff as the "#43 in 2008's 100 Top New Products": that never has anything to do with the manufacturer buying a few ad pages in the same mag. Never. It would be unethical and therefore can't happen.

P.P.S.: if you wonder why sandshark (the original sockpuppet) claimed he covered a hot copper pipe with space paint and it didn't feel as hot as before: put a piece of wood and a length of copper pipe on your living room table for an hour and then touch them. Why does one feel warmer than the other, although it is not? Next, cover a hot copper pipe in either $70/gal space paint or the front page of yesterday's newspaper (free). What happens if you touch it?

P.P.P.S: This post got much longer than intended. Maybe I owe rockdoc an apology. Some scammers and nutters get on my nerves, too, just different kinds. Even though I'm ten years late to the party...
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 12 Feb 2019, 16:20:25

Maybe I owe rockdoc an apology. Some scammers and nutters get on my nerves, too, just different kinds. Even though I'm ten years late to the party...


Apology gracelessly accepted :razz:

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