[EnergyUnlimited]

During last several years we can observe an interesting new social phenomenon, namely an *abdication* of many western states and embacement of barbarism by ruling politcal elites.
So for example in the UK it is OK to rape white children, particularly if you are Muslim:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscrut ... 3506d1754a

And of course children found to be abused mainly by our Muslim brothers are charged by the police either with "disorderly behavior" or with "prostitution".
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-43400336
Essentially British police is telling to raped children "You are sluts".

Now lets look what is going on in Sweden:
We have new handgrenade amnesty:
https://www.thelocal.se/20181015/give-u ... -under-way
Why anyone would need a handgrenade in Sweden, I wonder? Or am I missing something?
Of course women are being kept busy there too.
Swedes were not paying enough attention (presumably because these women are ugly), but now at least our brown/beige friends are filling a gap:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rapes.html
Police is helpully advising women to "stay at home" or maybe wear "don't rape me" badges, also in arabic.
Hopefully it will work...
Meantime refugees are celebrating their new Swedish citizenship:
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/migra ... at-i-want/

What about Germans...
We all know that there is one woman there who loves all refugees and for her there is never enough of them.
But now refugees are fleeing Germany, fearing other refugees:
https://womenintheworld.com/2018/08/27/ ... r-captive/

Viva barbaria!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RInovWSXWr0

[Tanada]

Have no fear, in another four or five generation the new Islamist Overlords will see to it the apostate/atheist elites of today are no longer in a position to say or do anything they do not like. Of course the rest of the population will be along for the ride, but that is the price they pay for placing this particular group of elitists in control of their societies.

[evilgenius]

What would be barbaric would be to switch to a system where people are presumed guilty of a thing before they do a thing, for their very likely chance to do it. Go ahead and say that immigrants aren't people in some way, but be careful. Saying such a thing could mean that it eventually winds up pointing the finger at you.

Right now people are worried about Muslims because they've been ginned up by rhetoric to fear that all terrorism and uncontrolled behavior comes from them. Many people want to keep them all out. In the US, to an extent, that same rhetoric applies to Mexicans. Trump wants to build a wall. But civilized society demands punishment for crimes committed, not for crimes imagined. Civilized society declares that people are innocent until proven guilty.

I get it that there is a correlation between Muslims and terrorism. If you divorce yourself from history, you could accept that comes from some innate characteristic. But all of the terrorism seems to have a reason related to either history or politics. That doesn't make it right. It only means that the reason is not some innate characteristic. They just happen to be the ones on that side of the divide, similar to how the pseudo communists were on that same side during the seventies when the Red Brigade and Symbionese Liberation Army perpetrated the same kind of crimes in the name of their twisted desire for change. That didn't make drawing room socialists complicit in their crimes, however.

Lest we become too overly accepting, in an effort to view the other as human, let's not absolve them of their crimes when they have committed them. There is the play on calling all Muslims extremists and then there are those who did go over to the Middle East and participate. The principle of calling out those who have actually committed crimes versus those who people might imagine might commit crimes sort of demands judicial action towards those who went over and participated in any way with ISIS to commit the crimes against humanity that they committed. Leniency toward those people would be a huge mistake. What they did is not the equivalent of what others did when they went to Spain and participated in the Spanish Civil War against Franco. That was to stop barbarism, and they to instill it. Leniency would equate them with those who are innocent but come from the same background, trying to say that it is the background which absolves them. We accept the person who is Muslim out of their humanity. We do that in a secular way, asking them to conform to those secular standards. Only when they as individuals transgress that mandate do we prosecute. We do not imagine that they have done wrong before that.

[KaiserJeep]

There is a practical side to an anti-immigration stance. I happen to oppose immigration EXCEPT those who choose the legal route, get examined for infectious diseases, and get vocational/employment assistance, and acquire an SSN and then pay taxes.

As for the security aspect of it all, I live in a Silicon Valley neighborhood with a significant Muslim population I would estimate at 15% to 20%, probably every 10th home. The rest of my neighbors have rainbow skin tones and a variety of languages. I would guess that the largest minority here is Latino, but that will change to East Asian soon. Whites are still the majority, barely, but that too is changing.

We DO NOT have a problem with Muslims, we have a problem with gangs and violence resulting from their turf wars. The gangs themselves are largely of a single ethnic and racial type, because that is their choice.

I am tired of sitting on juries where we are trying and punishing gang bangers, up to and including murderers. I am tired of my mail being stolen out of my mailbox and my Amazon packages stolen off my front steps, and I'm tired of graffitti in foriegn tongues.

The present situation is simply out of control. I have decided to move back to the MidWest. But the government must assert control over criminals and crime must be reduced, along with the bone-chilling level of (entirely sectarian) violence.

The present situation came about in the last two decades, largely after the cities of San Jose and San Francisco, Santa Clara county, and the State of California declared themselves to be "sanctuaries". We have a "refugee" problem to an extreme, mostly Spanish and Portguese-speaking Hispanics and Native Americans from South and Central America.

This state represents a quarter of the US population and a quarter of the US economy. But it also has a huge population of "undocumented" and the rest of us are suffering because of it. I pretty much LIKE California, the people and the spectacular landscapes, but after living 32 years in Silicon Valley I pretty much HATE the crime-ridden SF Bay Area and the catch-and-release tolerance for non-citizen criminals, most of whom are not Muslims.

[Newfie]

California has 40 million out of 320. That’s like 12%.

[KaiserJeep]

40 million is about 12.5%, that's true. We also have more than 11 million illegals, half the estimated total. Whatever the numbers are, we have a lot of problems arising from an almost total lack of immigration law enforcement. Now try to imagine living in a place where every fifth person is a non-citizen, mostly Hispanic, but also large numbers of Chinese and other East Asians, many of whom got here in cargo containers.

Look, I FEEL for the poor bastards coming North over the borders and riding containers. I know how bad it must be for people to put their minor children in the care of others who take them to the US.

But there are hundreds, if not thousands, of undocumented living in the nearby woods in vehicles and the fruit picker shacks South of town, and if you were to believe the school registrations, every Hispanic family on my street has over 10 children on average. Of course, they do not, but each morning a bus funded by the Catholic Church on the corner (which shall remain nameless) picks up the kids who actually live here, adds those from outside the school district South of here, and sends them to the local schools.

I KNOW why they do this and I would probably do the same if I was in their shoes. But the local schools are overwhelmed with too many kids and not enough tax revenues. Hence the campaign to repeal Prop 13, make taxes so high that all the retired old folks have to leave, and get working folks to live here who can afford higher taxes. Now every Hispanic student in HS or JHS, be they Spanish or Portuguese speaking at home, gets an extra hour of instruction in spoken English.

I watched the foster Hispanic kids next door as they went down the street every day to a neighbor's house and donned gang colors before going to the same school my daughter used to attend. In the afternoon they again put on their normal clothes and returned to next door, and their foster mother was in denial of this. We did fundraisers for years after my daughter graduated, but every time we bought uniforms for a school athletic team, equipment for the Photography class, or whatever, the school reduced the budget for that class/team by whatever amount we raised, and poured more funding into mainstreaming more Hispanic kids from South of the school district.

The system is broken and getting worse as time passes. YES this place has a vibrant culture and a healthy job market, one of the best places to work in the country. But it has problems, mainly caused by undocumented people in huge numbers. But they are not "barbaric" Muslims.

[dissident]

https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/swede ... 0-afghans/

All the humanitarianism in Sweden is vapid PC BS. They would rather succor ISIS terrorists than give Europeans any safe harbour.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2017/ ... identities

The SJW regime running Sweden is utter scum. Unfortunately a lot of the EU is ruled by the same type of maggots. But Italy and Hungary have woken up and smelled the coffee. Maybe the rest of the EU will free itself from the un-elected PC bureaucracy in Brussels.

[Outcast_Searcher]

There is a practical side to an anti-immigration stance. I happen to oppose immigration EXCEPT those who choose the legal route, get examined for infectious diseases, and get vocational/employment assistance, and acquire an SSN and then pay taxes.

+1

I think equating Trump's wall idea to an anti-Muslim thing makes little sense. Equating it to an economic issue (illegals and jobs) makes more sense to me.

Now, I think the physical wall is impractical to the point of being incredibly stupid. The "X foot wall is defeated by an X + 2 foot ladder" joke pretty much seals the deal for me, re practicality.

OTOH, a strong E-verify mandate with a carefully maintained database and VERY harsh sanctions for ignoring it by employers would potentially be a solid virtual jobs wall, and should be looked at.

But of course, the GOP doesn't want to interfere with business interests (and voters) who want the cheap illegal labor to bolster profits, so there is no meaningful movement to get anything like this done, and the problem persists.

...

Re the terrorist threat thing and "group X, Y, Z, etc", it's not like the FBI, NSA, etc. aren't already doing lots of work in this area. Since terrorists come in all stripes, and you can't really tell much about what someone is thinking from how they look (at least in my experience), best to let them get on with their work. I think 17 years after 9-11, the vast majority of the US mainstream has stopped looking for terrorists under every bridge, etc.

[Newfie]

Apparently not. Terrorizim is still a very high concern amongst some groupings.

I don’t get it but that’s what the polls say.

A gallop poll show 40-50% of Americans are very to somewhat worried they or someone in their family will become a victim of terrorizing.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/4909/terro ... tates.aspx

And on immigration.....

https://news.gallup.com/poll/237389/imm ... -list.aspx

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Immigration has risen to the top of the list when Americans are asked to name the most important problem facing the nation -- edging out the government, which has been the top issue each month since January 2017. The 22% of Americans in July who say immigration is the top problem is up from 14% in June and is the highest percentage naming that issue in Gallup's history of asking the "most important problem" question. The previous high had been 19%.

[Subjectivist]

The reason people fear terrorism is pretty simple. Before the media became obsessed with Trump they did a halfway decent job reporting on ISIS and the influx of young single middle eastern men flooding western europe and causing crime rates to spike. We still get reports now andagain of 'honor killings' of women in America whose father/brother/husband suffered the insult of a woman who publically disobeyed them and was executed for the offense to their pride.

Sure this used to be common in America 200 years ago, but for the most part we have moved past the patriachy where a mans pride was worth more than a womans life.

How do some people reconcile the #metoo movement with Germany inviting in rape gangs? Talk about cognitive dissonance!

[evilgenius]

People are afraid, and they also think they are going to win the lottery. Maybe those two things don't have the same odds of happening, but people greatly overestimate the occurrence of what they are afraid of. It is true that so called black swan events happen. You know, things that are so bad that if they do happen they change everything. For a long time various groups plotted to take down the World Trade Center buildings. No one gave it the sort of thought that they gave to their emotional reactions after the last effort was a success. Maybe, if they had then the fact it was a success might not have troubled them so much? We'll never know.

The protection any society has against immigrants introducing barbarism is the influence of its culture. The US has some reason for fear. Its culture has suffered in the face of what they like to call success. When I was a kid the question "What do you want to be when you grow up," was met by answers like a fireman, policeman, doctor or nurse. By the time I was in high school that had predominantly changed to, "I want to be rich." Now, they weren't expressing that they wanted to become financiers, bankers or traders - don't let's talk about the math that we are certain we will never have to use again beyond the classroom. They simply wanted to become rich by whatever means. The purpose involved in how they got there had become unimportant. America devolved into a moral quagmire where a real estate developer who stole people's houses and land or a draft dodger could become president, and call it righteous.

If you really want to talk about how and when the West began to embrace barbarism, then you had best begin to talk about Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. For it was their influence that, more than anything, compelled the change in children's attitudes. I know, I know, It wasn't down to them as much as a feeling of having fallen down brought about by the economic turbulence of the 70's and the West's perceived failure to respond dominantly to it. We had gas lines and interest rates around 20%. We needed "morning in America." We needed it so badly that we were more than willing to look the other way from Iran/Contra and the intrigue of the hostage's release date from Iran. We didn't want to ask why oil was $10 a barrel, as the Saudis took on the "swing producer" mandate. Happy days were here again.

Those happy days were so important to keep enjoying that we more than embraced Newt Gingrich and the Republican Revolution. It was easy to convince ourselves that we knew what was what and that our innate superiority, not behind the scenes machinations, had brought prosperity to us. We doubled down on that version of morality that held to rules above decency because we convinced ourselves we were, in effect, what the Islamic world wants now, some kind of holy city on the hill blessed by God and imbued with righteousness, going about doing righteous things in all righteous ways.

Sadly, it was never thus. Strong men had done things in hidden places in scary ways to ensure our way of life. 9/11 was not an inside job in the strictest sense, but it did come about as a result of American policy. And the world it transpired in had no depth of purpose, none enough to preserve it from the fear it felt concerning the unknown, which it feels about many things today. Yet, it is that very purpose which, if renewed, would buoy America and the West, through a deepening of its cultural strength, to such a point that no influx of immigrants could possibly threaten its way of life.

[KaiserJeep]

This is a turning point in History. I for one, do not believe the myth that immigrants contribute more than they consume. As I explained before, California is a place where every fifth person is undocumented. Some of these persons were born this side of the border and are citizens, most are not. Their influence permeates the state, and is officially encouraged by the various "sanctuaries". Their consumption of all forms of services strains Welfare, Healthcare, and Law Enforcement.

As the New World refugees flow North from South and Central America, fleeing for the most part the Socialist governments - and Communists, we should pause and take stock. Latin American culture is rife with corruption, favoritism towards family members and cronies, and other things incompatible with the American ideals. One need only look at politics in San Jose or many other California cities to understand that this is an acute problem. As is - I do not doubt - Muslims attempting to introduce Muslim mores into European countries.

You either keep your identity as a people, or go under. When we had immigration quotas and enforced them, we had problems enough, but nothing like the present. Unfortunately, this is one of those issues that is perceived as clearly delinineated across the R vs. D politics, it's going to be much harder to agree on a solution because of that.

[KaiserJeep]

There has been lots of talking about that wall, Trump uses it to divert attention when needed and is currently grandstanding against California politicians over a group of refugees. He has also approved a design, and has given the Congress the task of funding the wall - and there the issue sits, mired in Congressional politics.

[EnergyUnlimited]

The protection any society has against immigrants introducing barbarism is the influence of its culture. The US has some reason for fear. Its culture has suffered in the face of what they like to call success. When I was a kid the question "What do you want to be when you grow up," was met by answers like a fireman, policeman, doctor or nurse. By the time I was in high school that had predominantly changed to, "I want to be rich." Now, they weren't expressing that they wanted to become financiers, bankers or traders - don't let's talk about the math that we are certain we will never have to use again beyond the classroom. They simply wanted to become rich by whatever means. The purpose involved in how they got there had become unimportant. America devolved into a moral quagmire where a real estate developer who stole people's houses and land or a draft dodger could become president, and call it righteous.

You are onto something important.
Western civilization had (and in rather few places still have) its culture based on Christianity.
For some reason this culture have in built self destruct mechanism.
This takes a form of teachings of Jesus about peoples being equal, about sharing resources with poor, about egalitarianism etc.
These concepts were useful to a degree but at some point they have gone into an overdrive and various malignancies which can be branded together as "progressivism" were born.
There are countless angles how said malignancies are working, but an overall effect seems to be a dissipation of coherrent society into countless minorities, all of them claiming to be persecuted by some sort of "white male patriarchat" which have built western civilization in the first place.
On the top of it Christianity itself is subjected to concerted attack of all these progressive groups and IMHO its days are counted and it is being dismantled as we speak.
There is nothing what can replace ailing Christianity either.
It will not be possible to maintain a coherrent society base on progressive values alone and this phenomenon is very clearly seen in Western Europe.
Invading barbarians have a very easy task at hand.
Tribal customs and gang styled member loyalty together with rather moderate value of individual life is all what they need to defeat still existing western societal structures.
Western police is incapable to deal with violent gangs without a fear of causing civil war and western politicians for some reason have decided that replacement of native populations with barbarians might be an honorable quest anyway.
On the top of it western women, regardless of what they say, actually will serve the guy who raped them first. Particularly once they are convinced that any complains will result in throat being slit.
Progressivism has destroyed binding culture of West (Christianity) but can offer nothing to replace it. Society is left off guard, gone decadent and barbarians are taking over.

Did you hear that swedish archeologists from Uppsala University have found that Vikings were Muslims?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 97976.html
Well... I don't think that Vikings were Muslims but I do expect that Swedes are going to be pretty soon.
And they will look like Sudanese do... and their average IQ will drop to 80-90.
RIP Sweden.

[Newfie]

Another odd ball idea I have is that the structure of the language, it’s grammer, directly effects the culture. English is a very direct, action oriented language. I think that tends to bias how English speaking language cultures think and react.

Not 100% explanatory but I think it contributes more than is recognized.

[Newfie]

Another thought, suppose this migrant column is successful in entering the USA. Will that not encorage even more mass migrant columns?

[KaiserJeep]

Another thought, suppose this migrant column is successful in entering the USA. Will that not encorage even more mass migrant columns?

You have it, Newfie. Then, as with the famous "marching Chinamen" scenario, it does not matter how many we admit to this country, as there always remain more than when they migrated North. It's tha "reproduce like mad during difficult times" that is hardwired into us by evolution.

We CAN assimilate up to a certain limit in the "melting pot" of American culture. When the limit is exceeded, the culture is broken, as it is in California with our huge numbers of undocumented.

In an odd change, the legalization of pot has done more to stop gang activity than any actions by law enforcement. The lower potency Mexican weed cannot compete with potent California hemp products. The Libertarians always swore that would be the case.