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Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 13:59:08

jesus_of_suburbia wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:For example: Does anyone really think medical costs will be realistically constrained in the US if the end consumer of medical care doesn't have some meaningful stake in what their care costs? I don't.


How the fuck can you say this when the US currently spends more money per person with worse outcomes than other countries with socialized medicine?

OK, so now you just go full blown irrational anger. Disappointing.

Did I say ONE WORD about socialized medicine? No.

If you take a (calm, rational) look at medical costs in many countries, they tend to be rising rapidly. In the vast majority of systems, people receiving care have little economic stake in what that care costs.

So all I'm implying is that in ANY system, people having some economic stake would help constrain costs, in my opinion.

...

I'd actually prefer a coherent socialized system for the US like Medicare for All, vs. the mess we've had for a long time now, including the Obamacare kludge. But along with that, I'd prefer some moderate level of deductibles for the little things. That would help constrain prices, since people would do things like shop around more for an MRI if they had to pay a meaningful percentage of the MRI's price.

...

So more spewing of anger, or are you willing to concede that just maybe I have a point, even if meaningful deductibles for small things means medicine isn't 100% paid for by "the system"?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 14:13:03

@ Outcast

The system question is allways emotional because its a question of living or die.

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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 14:32:05

M_B_S wrote:@ Outcast

The system question is allways emotional because its a question of living or die.

M_B_S

Why? The laws are such that emergency medical care MUST be provided. So it's not about somebody dying -- it's about whether they get a bill. Two VERY different things.

And, if society wants to do something about helping pay for such bills for the very poor, then it can do that with tax credits or something. (The poor can get certain tax credits whether they owe taxes or not. The IEC (Earned Income Credit) is a good example.)

But I think it's unreasonable to claim that having some level of deductibles implies it is life or death.

Sorry, but to me that claim in the US, is an emotional one.

Now, if the claim is about convenience, "fairness", etc. -- that's a different issue.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 14:51:24

A couple of stats from the 20th Century. The civilian deaths that are documented and attributed to Communism from 1918-2006:

1) People's Republic of China, Body Count: 73,237,000
2) Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Body Count: 58,627,000
3) Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic, Body Count: 3,284,000
4) Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Body Count: 3,163,000
5) Cambodia, Body Count: 2,627,000
6) Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, Body Count: 1,750,000
7) Vietnam, Body Count: 1,670,000
8 ) People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia, Body Count: 1,343,610
9) Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Body Count: 1,072,000
10) Chinese Soviet Republic, Body Count: 700,000
11) People's Republic of Mozambique, Body Count: 700,000
12) Socialist Republic of Romania, Body Count: 435,000
13) People's Republic of Bulgaria, Body Count: 222,000
14) People's Republic of Angola, Body Count: 125,000
15) Mongolian People's Republic, Body Count: 100,000
16) People's Socialist Republic of Albania, Body Count: 100,000
17) Republic of Cuba, Body Count: 73,000
18) German Democratic Republic, Body Count: 70,000
19) Socialist Republic of Czechoslovakia, Body Count: 65,000
20) Lao People's Democratic Republic, Body Count: 56,000
21) Hungarian People's Republic, Body Count: 27,000
22) People's Republic of Poland, Body Count: 22,000
23) People's Democratic Republic of Yemen, Body Count: 1,000

Total Communist/Socialist civilian body count 149,469,610. This excludes wartime deaths and ethnic cleansings, etc. These are strictly civilians killed by Communists during peacetime.

Compare it to the Nazi total of 20,946,000. The Communists/Socialists killled 7.5X as many civilians in peacetime as the Nazi's killed in WW2.

Reference: https://scottmanning.com/content/communist-body-count/

I repeat, only a mentally deficient fool would favor anything but Democracy and Capitalism.
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Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 14:53:56

I think the youth should eat us when there's no other food left.

Until then, they will want their iPhones and Android phones, etc.

When they don't have a place to live, we will hear more from them.

As older folks are forced to sell their home and the young can no longer afford a place to live,

only then will they speak up.

My generation spoke up when they were being sent to their death in Vietnam.

That appears to be the way it works.
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 14:58:12

Socialism is not Communism. In Communism, one has little rights. In Socialism, you have many rights.

In Capitalism, you may lack privileges. Good luck with your rights then.
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 00:57:46

@ Jedrider

To say it clear and loud both systems capitalism and real communism is killing earths life support system now.

Go back to this thread title

The youth is dancing the last dance before the GW battle begins. (Kampf um Lebensraum)

Back into the caves?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaq3mFrXy6Y
YOUTH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwbwEZtpEZU
Lets dance .... the summer is hot.
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.

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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 03:59:54

The letter of a parent speaks for itself: SORRY!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/opin ... nting.html

I cried two times when my daughter was born. First for joy, when after 27 hours of labor the little feral being we’d made came yowling into the world, and the second for sorrow, holding the earth’s newest human and looking out the window with her at the rows of cars in the hospital parking lot, the strip mall across the street, the box stores and drive-throughs and drainage ditches and asphalt and waste fields that had once been oak groves. A world of extinction and catastrophe, a world in which harmony with nature had long been foreclosed. My partner and I had, in our selfishness, doomed our daughter to life on a dystopian planet, and I could see no way to shield her from the future.

Anyone who pays much attention to climate change knows the outlook is grim. It’s not unreasonable to say that the challenge we face today is the greatest the human species has ever confronted. And anyone who pays much attention to politics can assume we’re almost certainly going to botch it. To stop emitting waste carbon completely within the next five or 10 years, we would need to radically reorient almost all human economic and social production, a task that’s scarcely imaginable, much less feasible. It would demand centralized control of key economic sectors, enormous state investment in carbon capture and sequestration and global coordination on a scale never before seen, at the very time when the political and economic structures that held the capitalist world order together under American leadership after World War II are breaking apart. The very idea of unified national political action toward a single goal seems farcical, and unified action on a global scale mere whimsy.

And even if world leaders somehow got their act together, significant and dangerous levels of warming are still inevitable, baked into the system from all the carbon dioxide that has already been dumped. There’s a time lag between carbon dioxide increase and subsequent effects, between the wind we sow and the whirlwind we reap. Our lives are lived in that gap. My daughter was born there.

Barring a miracle, the next 20 years are going to see increasingly chaotic systemic transformation in global climate patterns, unpredictable biological adaptation and a wild spectrum of human political and economic responses, including scapegoating and war. After that, things will get worse. The middle and later decades of the 21st century — my daughter’s adult life — promise a global catastrophe whose full implications any reasonable person must turn away from in horror......
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 16:03:56

M_B_S wrote:The letter of a parent speaks for itself: SORRY!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/opin ... nting.html

I cried two times when my daughter was born. First for joy, when after 27 hours of labor the little feral being we’d made came yowling into the world, and the second for sorrow, holding the earth’s newest human and looking out the window with her at the rows of cars in the hospital parking lot, the strip mall across the street, the box stores and drive-throughs and drainage ditches and asphalt and waste fields that had once been oak groves. A world of extinction and catastrophe, a world in which harmony with nature had long been foreclosed. My partner and I had, in our selfishness, doomed our daughter to life on a dystopian planet, and I could see no way to shield her from the future.

Funny how the parent seems to completely miss the irony.

The primary cause of all the things cited is OVERPOPULATION.

But of course, THEY want to have kids, so they point at everything (and thus by implication) everyone ELSE as the problem.

(Not sorry. I didn't have any kids and try to live a relatively low carbon footprint lifestyle, once I understood the magnitude of the problem. i.e. I did the best I could.)

The middle and later decades of the 21st century — my daughter’s adult life — promise a global catastrophe whose full implications any reasonable person must turn away from in horror......

But of course, irony**2 here, a "reasonable" person crying in an editorial can't be expected to refrain from helping contribute to the problem by having kids.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 16:11:36

jedrider wrote:I think the youth should eat us when there's no other food left.

Until then, they will want their iPhones and Android phones, etc.

When they don't have a place to live, we will hear more from them.

So as the youth continue to live the same way and earn and spend and borrow all they can and have as many kids as they want -- then the "right" thing to do is eat their elders when resources run short, because ???

Might makes right?

They assume their fists will beat my gun?

I think you've been dreaming of too much doomer porn.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Will the youth kill the old (system) soon ?

Unread postby M_B_S » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 00:48:27

@outcast

No future for mankind without children so be proud to have children but more than two kills the future (living earth) in our days. M_B_S

YES THE BIG NUMBER IS THE PROBLEM
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