Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 14:01:07

China is using nuclear energy to decarbonize its energy infrastructure and reduce CO2 emissions to mitigate greenhouse warming

chinas-nuclear-energy-gambit

I wish they would've thought of this earlier----China is by far the world's leading CO2 emitter and taking steps to bring down their CO2 emissions---even through using nuclear energy-----is long overdue.

Image
Cheers!
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 21496
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 14:03:13

Well they had the one child policy and we hammered them on it as a human rights violation.

They were trying.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10951
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby GHung » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 16:15:18

Newfie wrote:Well they had the one child policy and we hammered them on it as a human rights violation. .....


We? Which "we" was that?
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2374
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dissident » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 18:18:56

China is also the biggest emitter of mercury in the world thanks to all that coal burning. They have to use nuclear and hydro and alternatives to get rid of coal for this reason alone.

Image
User avatar
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5277
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 19:36:30

GHung wrote:
Newfie wrote:Well they had the one child policy and we hammered them on it as a human rights violation. .....


We? Which "we" was that?


USA at least.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10951
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 20:33:09

G wrote:

dohboi wrote:
Meanwhile:

"Fearing climate change, experts in San Diego warn U.S. nuclear industry faces collapse"

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... story.html



A society desperate to have its cake, and all that growth monkey stuff. Or maybe they fear not having their personal environmental control systems in 100+ degree heat. And they wouldn't want to admit that they can't have all those giant electronic billboards, miles of ice cream freezers, billions of watts lighting empty parking lots,,, all-the-while fighting climate change. From the article:

“There’s almost nothing that can be done to make nuclear a significant contributor in the next few decades, even if you throw billions of dollars at it,” he said. “The people who promote nuclear power have tunnel vision.”

Dan Jacobson, state director for Environment California, echoed those general concerns.

“Nuclear power in its current form has been an incredibility expensive way to boil water,” he said. “If you’re really trying to decarbonize our grid, we would rather spend those billions on efficiency, conservation and renewables.”



So gridweenies say they need new state-of-the-art reactors?

Southern Co. says Vogtle costs to exceed $25B

The cost of expanding Plant Vogtle has swelled to more than $25 billion and work has slipped further behind schedule in the wake of a key contractor’s bankruptcy, according to estimates disclosed Wednesday by Southern Company.

The new cost estimate is close to double the original projection when state regulators in 2009 approved plans for two new nuclear reactors at the plant near Augusta, and roughly $3 billion higher than the most recent figure.

Construction was originally supposed to be finished by now. But Atlanta-based Southern also said Wednesday the new reactors won’t be finished until March 2023 — two and a half years later than its most recent target of late 2020. ....

https://www.myajc.com/business/southern ... 4RNMB2n0O/


Many good points here, aptly stated, especially "an incredibility expensive way to boil water"...pretty well sums it up...
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dissident » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 20:48:04

BS. Nuclear is the only coal alternative outside of hydro and natural gas or oil. Hydro capacity is limited and when hydro is deployed we have the same bitching by the "concerned" as we do with nuclear.

Nobody is stopping the deployment of wind and solar. But after 40+ years they are still boutique power sources requiring decades of more development. It is absolutely retarded to run around whinging about nuclear while the so-called alternatives take 80 years to grow above 5% of global supply. And that is with generous subsidies.

Yeah, lets burn fossil fuels because we are primitive nuclear-phobes. Coal has and will kill more people and ruin their health, and that of the global ecosystem, than nuclear even it is scaled to 80% of global baseload. Magical thinking at its worst.
User avatar
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5277
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 20:56:10

We should probably take this (endless) debate to another thread, but I'll just point out that no one is 'whinging' as far as I know! :lol: :lol:
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby GHung » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 23:01:50

dissident wrote:BS. Nuclear is the only coal alternative outside of hydro and natural gas or oil. Hydro capacity is limited and when hydro is deployed we have the same bitching by the "concerned" as we do with nuclear.

Nobody is stopping the deployment of wind and solar. But after 40+ years they are still boutique power sources requiring decades of more development. It is absolutely retarded to run around whinging about nuclear while the so-called alternatives take 80 years to grow above 5% of global supply. And that is with generous subsidies.

Yeah, lets burn fossil fuels because we are primitive nuclear-phobes. Coal has and will kill more people and ruin their health, and that of the global ecosystem, than nuclear even it is scaled to 80% of global baseload. Magical thinking at its worst.


"Nobody is stopping the deployment of wind and solar."

STRAWMAN ALERT!
Who said anything about stopping the deployment of wind and solar? Really? I also didn't mention that new nuke still needs to beg for massive guaranteed federal loans and govt. subsidized insurance, but has yet to pump one kWh to the grid.

Build us a modern state-of-the-art nuke plant near budget and projected time-frame and get back to us. Meanwhile, rooftop PV deployment is moving along nicely. Even Duke Energy, who lobbied to end North Carolina's renewable energy tax credits is now offering homeowners $6K to install (wait for it)....... ROOFTOP SOLAR.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2374
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 08:32:09

More nasty feedbacks:

Strengthening west winds close to Antarctica previously led to massive outgassing of carbon.

Jul 10, 2018, U. New South Wales.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 101634.htm

Stronger westerly winds in the Southern Ocean could be the cause of a sudden rise in atmospheric CO2 and temperatures in a period of less than 100 years about 16,000 years ago, according to a study published in Nature Communications.

The westerly winds during that event strengthened as they contracted closer to Antarctica, leading to a domino effect that caused an outgassing of carbon dioxide from the Southern Ocean into the atmosphere. . . The stronger winds had a direct impact on the ocean circulation, increasing the formation of bottom water along the Antarctic coast and enhancing the transport of carbon rich waters from the deep Pacific Ocean to the surface of the Southern Ocean. As a result, about 100Gt of carbon dioxide was emitted into the atmosphere by the Southern Ocean.

This contraction and strengthening of the winds is very similar to what we are already seeing today as a result of human caused climate change.

“During this earlier period, known as Heinrich stadial 1, atmospheric CO2 increased by a total of ~40ppm, Antarctic surface atmospheric temperatures increased by around 5°C and Southern Ocean temperatures increased by 3°C,” said lead author Dr Laurie Menviel, a Scientia Fellow with the University of New South Wales (Sydney).

“With this in mind, the contraction and strengthening of westerly winds today could have significant implications for atmospheric CO2 concentrations and our future climate.”
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 19:02:47

Fuller details on that mess here:

https://robertscribbler.com/2018/07/11/ ... ent-147853

...the Southern Ocean has already sequestered 10 percent of carbon emitted by humans.

If that sequestration halts and then reverses, then the rate of atmospheric CO2 accumulation, even if emissions stay stable, will rise by about 0.2 to 0.4 ppm per year...
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 13 Jul 2018, 10:34:29

Based On New Model,Researchers Report Alarming Polar Melting Phenomenon

Image

Bremerhaven-based researchers report in the journal Nature that during the last glacial period, a massive inflow of freshwater into the polar North Atlantic set off a chain of events in the ocean and the atmosphere, which resulted intensive glacier melting in the North Pacific, thousands of kilometres away.

Ocean basins around the world are interconnected by large-scale current systems, and like a global conveyor belt, the currents transport water around the globe at varying depths. The resultant distribution of warm and cold water masses is critical for global climatic conditions. Scientists at the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI) and MARUM Center for Marine Environmental Sciences have now documented how a change in currents in one ocean basin can trigger massive and unexpected changes in a distant basin, even on the other side of the planet.
Previous reconstructions of glacial conditions have documented that meltwater inflows have caused major drops in surface salinity in the North Atlantic, a feature that inspired Edith Maier to investigate whether the meltwater events in the North Atlantic and the North Pacific were linked via the global water circulation. Today, warm surface water is transported from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean, then flows around the southern tip of Africa towards the Caribbean realm and then spreads into the North Atlantic via the Gulf Stream.

The driver of this global flow is the generation of cold and salty water in the polar North Atlantic. This water, produced during ice formation, is denser than warm water and therefore sinks into the deep ocean. As a result, the surface warm water is pumped to the North. But 16,000 and 38,500 years ago, the global "pumping system" was seriously disrupted by the decreased salinity of the North Atlantic. Consequently, only little warm water flowed out of the Pacific, causing the tropical Pacific to get warmer. In turn, more warm water reached the western coasts of Canada and Alaska. The inflow of warmer water destabilized the ice sheet covering the coastal areas which resulted in a discharge of the continental ice into the ocean and a drop in surface salinity.

... To validate this scenario, Edith Maier asked the AWI's climate modelers, led by Gerrit Lohmann, whether such a complex, global chain of events could be simulated using computer models. The results were unequivocal: If the oxygen isotopes are taken into account, the models clearly show that the phenomenon occurs. The model results also show that meltwater pulses in the Atlantic caused the changes in the Pacific—and not the other way round. "Our findings are also relevant for the future, because they highlight that climate effects on one side of the Earth can significantly impact regions on the opposite side," says Edith Maier. ... There is increasing evidence suggesting that further ocean warming will jeopardise both the stability and volume of the Antarctic ice."

E. Maier et al, North Pacific freshwater events linked to changes in glacial ocean circulation, Nature (2018)

It's happening NOW ...
Image

Image


Glacier Half the Size of Manhattan Breaks off Greenland Glacier

Image

All was quiet on June 22 as Canadian husband-and-wife scientists David and Denise Holland settled in for the night off Greenland's Helheim Glacier.

The glacier researchers from New York University had spent four nights on the south side of Helheim but had just set up camp on the north side. Denise had positioned her video camera — just in case — when she heard a noise that seemed to carry on "for an extended period of time."

That noise was a major breakup of the glacier that lasted more than 30 minutes.
...This process is very violent, very dramatic, and very one-way ... It raises sea level, and it does it very abruptly

Massive pieces of ice half a kilometre high broke off. The water roiled as the new icebergs rolled and crashed. Then the larger chunk of ice, estimated to be roughly half the size of New York's Manhattan Island, began its journey to the sea.

In the end, a piece of ice almost seven kilometres long and one kilometre thick broke off. Five to eight billion tons of ice was lost. It is one of the biggest glacier calving events captured on video.


Image

The fjord in which the glacier rests is about 2,000 to 3,000 feet deep, and the deeper water is warmer than the water at the surface. This undermines the glacier at its lowest point, driving fast retreat.

The current break, at about 10 billion tons, represents just over 3 percent of Greenland’s annual ice loss of 286 billion tons, the cumulative result of many losses like this one across many glaciers (as well as large volumes of meltwater spilling directly into the ocean). Each break of 1 billion tons or more is such a massive event that it can create “icequakes” that can be detected far away, as the tipping ice crashes back against the still-attached parts of the glacier.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
User avatar
vox_mundi
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3867
Joined: Wed 27 Sep 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby GHung » Fri 13 Jul 2018, 17:34:19

Los Angeles is painting some of its streets white and the reasons why are pretty cool

Los Angeles, like so many other modern cities, is encased in thousands of miles of asphalt. And dark-colored asphalt absorbs between 80 and 95 percent of the sun's rays, heating up not just the streets themselves but the entire surrounding area. So when temperatures in Southern California rise above 100 degrees Fahrenheit, surface temperatures on its asphalt roads can climb to 150. It exacerbates a phenomenon known as the "urban heat island effect," which the EPA says can add up to 22 degrees Fahrenheit to the average air temperature in a city, compared to the surrounding area.

CoolSeal, which is made by a company called GuardTop, helps to reflect solar rays off asphalt so that less heat is actually absorbed. And according to the Bureau of Street Services, the L.A. streets that have been rendered lighter in color with CoolSeal are 10 to 15 degrees cooler on average than the L.A. streets that have not. .....

more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angele ... etty-cool/
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2374
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 13 Jul 2018, 17:39:58

I hope those are low or no VOC paints. Otherwise they're making new problems even as they try to solve others. I though the whole painting the roof of your house white thing was shown to be a crock. I would think that this would be too, no?

Meanwhile:

Preparing for the health impacts of a fiery future


Consider this: last year’s wildfires in Northern California produced the highest levels of pollution ever recorded in the area.

In just two days, those fires produced as much pollution as all the state’s cars do in a year.

Wildfire smoke is laden with particulate matter, which triggers asthma, worsens lung and heart disease, and is linked to premature births and low birth weight babies.

And, as fires incinerate everything in their path — including plastics, paints and pesticides — they release toxins into the environment. In Sonoma County last year, for example, melted plastic pipes may have contaminated drinking water with benzene.

The health impacts of wildfire travel long distances: smoke from last year’s Northern California wildfires was detected more than 500 miles away in Mexico. In 2002, smoke from fires in Quebec drifted down the U.S. East Coast, causing a nearly 50 percent increase in hospital admissions for respiratory disease...


https://www.sbsun.com/2018/07/10/prepar ... ry-future/
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby GHung » Fri 13 Jul 2018, 17:52:34

dohboi wrote:I hope those are low or no VOC paints. Otherwise they're making new problems even as they try to solve others. I though the whole painting the roof of your house white thing was shown to be a crock. I would think that this would be too, no?


Thermodynamically, the effects would be local because that energy has to go somewhere; likely into the atmosphere where much of it is warming clouds or kept in by our CO2 blanket,,, or bouncing off the roads onto surrounding structures.

As for painting roofs white, I'm not sure, but we re-roofed a horse barn several years ago replacing the dark asphalt roof with white metal standing seam roofing. The difference was pretty remarkable. The barn was much cooler.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2374
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 14 Jul 2018, 17:15:35

Thanks, G. Interesting.

Meanwhile:

How global warming is causing ocean oxygen levels to fall

https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post- ... ls-to-fall


Research shows that human-caused global warming is the principal cause of marine oxygen loss. Humans also play an additional role through the input of nutrients to the oceans in coastal regions, though the individual processes at play are not straightforward to disentangle.

Warming affects the ocean and its dissolved oxygen content in several ways. Among other things, it influences the solubility of oxygen in the water. The warmer the water, the less gas that can dissolve in it.

Until now, this process mainly affected the upper few hundred meters of the oceans, which have been in contact with the atmosphere most recently. This effect explains up to 20% of the total marine oxygen loss so far and about 50% of that in the upper 1,000 metres of the oceans.

In addition, warming alters patterns of global ocean circulation, which affects the mixing of oxygen-rich surface waters with deeper oxygen-poor water. It also changes how quickly organisms metabolise and respire, which affects consumption of marine oxygen.

Finally, there are indirect impacts of warming on upper-ocean nutrient supply and subsequent production and downward export of organic matter available for respiration throughout the ocean.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Arctic Summer Temperatures Below Normal

Unread postby jawagord » Mon 16 Jul 2018, 17:40:53

After having an above normal Arctic winter, temperatures according to the DMI have been slightly below normal for the Arctic summer. Evidence that Global Warming is primarily a North of 60 winter time (i.e. night time) phenomena or does the resident brain trust have another explanation?

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
jawagord
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon 29 May 2017, 09:49:17

Re: Arctic Summer Temperatures Below Normal

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Jul 2018, 18:27:08

jawagord wrote:After having an above normal Arctic winter, temperatures according to the DMI have been slightly below normal for the Arctic summer. Evidence that Global Warming is primarily a North of 60 winter time (i.e. night time) phenomena or does the resident brain trust have another explanation?

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php


Glad to help, jawa.

First of all, if you want to understand the phenomena of climate change, you can't cherry pick the data by looking at only a few days or weeks of weather. You have to look at longer time periods. Global warming is most apparent when you examine the trends for over periods of decades.

Given that, lets look more closely at the graph in your own link--- it does indeed show that high latitude temps have been slightly cooler then average for the last couple of weeks. But if if look at the data for all of 2018, you can see there were extensive periods lasting weeks and even months in late winter and early spring when T was hitting levels 20 or more degrees above average.

Cheers! 8) :) :shock: 8O :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 21496
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dissident » Mon 16 Jul 2018, 19:24:22

The energy budget for the ocean-atmosphere system only makes sense as an integrated global whole and spanning one orbital period. Most of the much yapped about variability is simple energy exchange between the oceans and the atmosphere. Of course, there are long term orbital variations, but there is no reference frame for only looking at one month or day. The system is not clockwork linear so no two days or weeks are exactly the same. However, in the global and annual mean the advective nonlinearity which accounts for a substantial fraction of local variability is basically integrated out. Nonlinearity associated with radiative transfer via composition and albedo variations cannot be remove this way. But it is still deterministic.
User avatar
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5277
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 16 Jul 2018, 22:46:48

I a snowball falling in winter is enough proof for denialists that what every established scientific body in the world accepts as settled science is actually a hoax.

So good luck, guys, trying to convince jaw and company of anything they don't want to know.

What's the saying--It's hard to wake someone up who is only pretending to be sleeping...?
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17593
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests