Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 14:47:02

pstarr wrote:Short answer: no

Nice to see that as usual, you provide a thoughtful answer, backed by facts, logic, good citations, etc. /s

The average 9 year old is far more insightful.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 15:03:02

christianlouslange1.jpg
christianlouslange1.jpg (50.42 KiB) Viewed 4231 times
These appeals to technology always make me pause and think:
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9554
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 15:12:29

Thanks a lot for posting this KJ.

Lots to go through and will take some time, of course.

But I really like the agnostic approach of the article re AGW, and just looking at the tech re costs and practicality.

Some fascinating ideas, and it's good to see that older ideas like vertical indoor farming are still being improved upon..
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 17:30:38

Given that oil is free, we have almost forever, and money is created out of nothing, there is little to prevent us instituting a world-wide carbon sequestration program powered by 4th Gen hemp biodiesel. An unicorn poop, via thermodepolymerization. Or we could go with fusion? I don't know? Who does
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27391
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 17:42:47

pstarr wrote:Given that oil is free, we have almost forever, and money is created out of nothing, there is little to prevent us instituting a world-wide carbon sequestration program powered by 4th Gen hemp biodiesel. An unicorn poop, via thermodepolymerization. Or we could go with fusion? I don't know? Who does

Pstarr, why so pessimistic having you heard algae and seaweed will solve ALL our problems LMAO :lol:
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9554
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 17:56:00

Hyperloops and Solar Roadways
Image

a nationwide network of distributed solar-powered H20 Gen/Store Hydrogen Fuel Cell EV HookerMobiles
Image
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27391
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 21:56:29

:idea:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:Some fascinating ideas, and it's good to see that older ideas like vertical indoor farming are still being improved upon..

Improvements? Which? How? Why?

AppleSun Version 2 (tm) and TeslaDirt(tm)

Nah
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27391
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 06:31:48

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
pstarr wrote:Short answer: no

Nice to see that as usual, you provide a thoughtful answer, backed by facts, logic, good citations, etc. /s

The average 9 year old is far more insightful.


Unfortunately we collectively act as 9 year olds. So it is extreamely unlikely we will do anything helpful.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10957
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 11:28:03

Newfie - Exactly. Engineers can come up with lots of workable ideas. Such as the most obvious: drastically reduce the amount of fossil fuels burned by consumers. What can be done isn't relevant: what govts/societies are willing to do is.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11111
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 11:31:50

I think that you are all being naive. There may or may not be serious side effects to burning FF's. Without any doubts whatsoever, six billion humans will starve if we abandon petroleum-powered mechanized agriculture, and the transport of foodstuffs from distant places.

Nobody has yet convinced me that any AGW/CC consequence is worse than that.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5298
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 15:38:54

KaiserJeep wrote:I think that you are all being naive. There may or may not be serious side effects to burning FF's. Without any doubts whatsoever, six billion humans will starve if we abandon petroleum-powered mechanized agriculture, and the transport of foodstuffs from distant places.

Nobody has yet convinced me that any AGW/CC consequence is worse than that.

But I don't think this thread is about just abandoning burning FF's, which I agree, at least in the short term, would be a disaster. I think it's about mitigating the effects, via technology.

Those are two very different things.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 15:50:54

ROCKMAN wrote:Newfie - Exactly. Engineers can come up with lots of workable ideas. Such as the most obvious: drastically reduce the amount of fossil fuels burned by consumers. What can be done isn't relevant: what govts/societies are willing to do is.

Completely fair and valid point.

But if viable technologies make it easy and in fact cheaper to do something else, then it's not a big deal to change. In fact, organizations and individuals might change in their own self interest.

So for example, if solar truly gets meaningfully cheaper (via better technology) than burning fossil fuels in a decade or so, switching to solar will occur, simply to save money.

Same story for BEV's, once maintenance costs are factored in.

Some of the ideas in KJ's initial linked story are along the same lines re cost for other ideas. If, for example fuel cells can mitigate 90% of the CO2 created by many power plants cheaply, then that's not a meaningful burden. So doing that might happen. Especially if it helps avoid things like a CO2 tax.

...

So I could be wrong, but I believe the main reason governments and voters have been so strongly resistant to doing anything meaningful thus far is primarily the perceived high cost.

So to me, the real question here is can technology greatly lower that cost (or even turn that cost into savings in some cases)?

By the time we know in, say, a decade, we'll have more data on whether the recent spate of record setting high temperature years globally abates or accelerates. Also on whether SLR is hitting insurance costs meaningfully in places like Florida.

If people wake up enough to realize the costs of warming aren't trivial, that really changes things if the solutions aren't horrendously expensive.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 15:53:47

There's only one viable technological plan for mitigating the FF apocalypse that I know of. That would be moving off the Earth and into self-sufficient space colonies, safe from the resource squabbles on Earth.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5298
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 16:35:10

There no 'viable alternative' to diesel-fueled tractors, bunker fuel-powered ships, or kerosene flying airplanes. No long-haul EV Semis. No Hyperloopys. While there certainly are theoretical alternatives, all . . . after generations of development refinement and testing . . . have failed all the tests economic, thermodynamic and practical. There will be no drone pizza delivery. Sorry.

KJ, I also don't get why you bother in this silly thread: you know (and everybody else here knows by now) you are not a global warming hysteric. Who cares if technology can 'reverse' climate change . . . if climate change has nothing to do with man's futile future life here on earth?

All these non-oil threads remind me of camper-kids huddled around the campfire singing kumbya . . . because they are scared of what is out in the dark.
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27391
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 19:24:25

p, it just gives him another opportunity to trot out his tired old Frank Sinatra 'Fly Me To The Moon" shtick.

The original is much better! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxibHJOE5E
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17598
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 20:40:57

dohboi wrote:p, it just gives him another opportunity to trot out his tired old Frank Sinatra 'Fly Me To The Moon" shtick.

The original is much better! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxibHJOE5E

Huh?

Creatine, not found in a plant-based diet, might aid your reading and historical comprehension.

We have already been there. The moon.

Cheers (happy face)
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27391
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 07 Jun 2018, 06:40:28

Newfie wrote:Unfortunately we collectively act as 9 year olds. So it is extreamely unlikely we will do anything helpful.


Being 9 years old is maybe the best of times, old enough to reason, innocent enough to believe in fantasy, relationship with money is in how much candy you can buy and still a couple of years away from those hormones that twist us all up.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6535
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 07 Jun 2018, 09:12:06

You are correct. I apologize to all 9 year olds!
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10957
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Cog » Thu 07 Jun 2018, 13:18:33

Climate change is irrelevant compared to running out of oil. At least as far as humanity's future goes. Although pstarr may be a dope smoking hippie with questionable hygiene, he isn't wrong about the over-riding issue of our time.
User avatar
Cog
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10745
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 07 Jun 2018, 13:22:14

Cog wrote:pstarr may be a dope smoking hippie with questionable hygiene

Cog, you have to stop sniffing my underwear. I told you that it won't get you high :x
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27391
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests