[Ibon]

Ireland is kinda the 'exception that proves the rule'

It is a powerfully Catholic country that has oppressively controlled women's bodies by limiting their options of how they can control their own bodies.

That is why they are a relatively food secure country with a relatively high birth rate.

So...

It's time for a come to Jesus (or...the opposite??) moment for you population obsessed blokes.

Either you accept that you must be raving, hair-on-fire, ultra radical feministas, or you have to give up your whole pretext that you give a high flying f' about population, and accept that the whole thing was a big fat gigantic ruse to support your tiny flacid sad ego

Did I miss something here? To what post or comment are you responding to here? I am confused.

[Tanada]

I can no better respond to 'LSD President' post than to "I'm confused" posts right now...perhaps a bit of Ripple will help??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=671AgW9xSiA

[KaiserJeep]

Are you dyslexic? The LDS aka Mormon church is headed by a person called a "President".

[Ibon]

It would seem to be appropriate to trot out this chart again:

Then, just to make sure that you don't feel like you are king of the world, when you count individual organisms, humans and their domestic animals don't even break into the top 8 species that dominate our planet:

Check this out if you want a graphic example of what we have been discussing.

https://www.facebook.com/channel5uk/vid ... 4hKZzsj7rI

[Cog]

Liberals care about children Just not the unborn ones. If you are concerned about school shootings and death of children then do the math on how many children Planned Parenthood kills daily.

[Ibon]

Liberals care about children Just not the unborn ones. If you are concerned about school shootings and death of children then do the math on how many children Planned Parenthood kills daily.

How about all the children you killed every time you ejaculated while wacking off to Farah Fawcet when you were 20?

I think life starts in every egg and every sperm. I don't agree with George Carlin when he said not every ejaculation deserves a name I think it does!

I wonder what Dohboi thinks about this?

[Cog]

I was more of a Raquel Welch poster boy.

[Yonnipun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQc2H26T98E

Any other diabetics here? Fastforward to 2.23...

[kiwichick]

the headline of this thread is bullshit



https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... r-children

[dohboi]

Kiw, that's like saying an elephant is like a snake, because you are feeling the tail.

The damage is obviously a result of population TIMES level of consumption.

So yes, lots of people consuming lots is worse than few people consuming lots. But even if those few people consume at a high enough rate, they can do worse damage than lots of people consuming a little.

So yes, especially in high-consuming areas, having no or fewer children is doubtless the most important thing you can do. But consuming meat and other high-impact products and services also has a high impact.

We are all killing the planet, I hope you agree. So do you think that for some reason meat eaters should be exempted from all blame? If not, how can you say that the title of the thread is BS?

From the same newspaper you just cited from:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... t-on-earth

Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

And from the subtitle of the very article you just cited:

[other effective actions beyond having fewer children include]... "selling your car, avoiding flights and going vegetarian"

So even the very article you used to support your claim that the title of this thread is 'bs' affirms that meat eaters are indeed helping to kill the planet...wtf?

[Newfie]

the headline of this thread is bullshit



https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... r-children

We need a LIKE button.

[dohboi]

We need a 'internally inconsistent' button!

[Newfie]

Dohboi,
Answer KJ’s question.

[dohboi]

Newf:

Play chess with a pigeon!

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pigeon_chess

[Newfie]

Dohboi,

Try reading. It’s good for you.

You might learn some critical thinking skills.

http://www.skil.org/TB_folder_test/TB_p ... -prob.html

[KaiserJeep]

dohboi, you are ignoring the other members. Although this is your thread, we are asking a valid question, and you should provide an answer.

Ibon has identified what I am talking about as the biological variant of Jevon's paradox. He described what happened when Watt greatly improved the steam engine's efficiency - coal consumption increased, even though the actual consumption was reduced in individual engines. The more efficient steam engines were in greater demand for a wider range of applications.

I believe anything that "lessens the impact" that humans have on the planet, results in more humans and more damage to the ecosystem. We are resource-constrained in many places, whether that resource is food, clean water, living space, shelter, whatever. Anything which improves efficiency, stretches any resource further, increases the number of humans.

First decide whether you think that is a good thing. Is a planet with 10 Billion or 20 billion humans better than what we have?

[onlooker]

Sadly, Dohboi, those arguments on the contrarians side are valid. I know you mean well with this thread but this is a zero sum game now. Protecting the resources and habitability of this planet would allow more humans to exist and quite more consumers to varying degrees. \We cannot look at hypothetical scenarios. Humanity is unable and unwilling to control its population and as proven by China and India its consumption throughput as well

[Ibon]

Our children, our future generations are going to align themselves ideologically to where the physical limits lead us. However culture and ideologies evolve they will be governed by physical limits. As physical limits set the biological carrying capacity they also as well define the strength and endurance of cultural and ideological orientations.

In biology when an organism suffers trauma and goes into shock the body retreats protecting the core, blood flow to the extremities recedes.

Are we slowly but surely entering a new cultural era that resembles the biological state of shock? Whereby the dawning awareness of global constraints turns on its head many many sacred cows.

One of them is this temporal blindness that Dohboi has demonstrated and he is not an anomaly, he represents actually an ideological position that has a lot of company but one that unfortunately can not be maintained by the growing physical constraints due to human overshoot. And I am not by any means here singling out the ideological political left.

When you see a trend that threatens across the ideological spectrum then you know you are tapping into something real.

This is the case increasingly with human overshoot.

You know, what I mentioned up thread about Dick Cheney stating emphatically that American lifestyles do not come into question regarding any sacrifices to be made to mitigate climate change. That is another example of a temporal blindness similar to Dohboi but of an opposite ideological position. As if Americans are going to be immune to adapting their lifestyles to climate change or human overshoot!

40 years ago the Ideological orientation of abundance was resilient when lets say Ronald Reagan's speaches on the global stage espousing the spread of liberty and capitalism promising abundance to all those who lived under tyranny.

Today 40 years later, with China and India all the others having stepped up to the trough, the ideological carrying capacity is shifting. You don't hear any world leader espousing this kind of "abundance for all" rhetoric. We are retrenching, becoming more nationalistic, becoming more tribal. It is adaptive.

We are witnessing the ideological carrying capacity of abundance for all becoming undermined as the physical constraints start becoming cognizant more and more in the collective conscious.

Richard Heinberg once said years ago at one of the first peak oil conferences I ever attended that real revolutions happen when the physical underpinnings that hold cultures become undermined.

I had a huge light bulb moment go off in my head at that moment for I realized that what RIchard stated even undermined his very own ideological orientation. And mine. And Dohboi's. And all of ours.

None of us are free of this temporal blindness.

[dohboi]

Well, I guess I have 'temporal blindness' which presumably y'all are all really well sighted, temporally speaking, that is!

Best wishes to all in an uncertain future, and thanks to all for keeping this thread at or near the top of the queue!

[Newfie]

XXXXXX are Killing the Planet!

You can pretty much anything you like and be somewhat correct.

Car drivers are KTP
People living in temperate zones need heat and are KTP
Republicans aren KTP
Donald Trump is single handedly KTP
Obama’s selling the silly Paris Accords as a meaningful action Killed The Planet
Young women who want to have kids are KTP
Silly professors who blame old white guys and don’t answer insightful questions are KTP
Sailors who disrupt the wave patterns and use Dacron sail are KTP
Retired folks who no longer contribute to the economy but who use resources are KTP
Etc, etc, etc....