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One Belt, One Road

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 06:54:54

Russian friends of mine reckon no way is Russia ever going to let unfettered access happen from any direction. It's to this day among the most difficult countries to get a visa for & travel restrictions are heavier by far than for any of it's neighbors bar North Korea. Maybe you hand the keys to your truck to a Russian driver, fly to the other end or have another driver pick up whatever is left at the other side, yeah right.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby dissident » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 09:56:09

SeaGypsy wrote:Russian friends of mine reckon no way is Russia ever going to let unfettered access happen from any direction. It's to this day among the most difficult countries to get a visa for & travel restrictions are heavier by far than for any of it's neighbors bar North Korea. Maybe you hand the keys to your truck to a Russian driver, fly to the other end or have another driver pick up whatever is left at the other side, yeah right.


Containers don't need visas. Global shipping is done with containers. There is nothing limiting about having a land route as opposed to a sea route. I guess you are thinking that the same truck driver, driving the same truck is going to go from Asia to Europe. That is not how it happens now and nothing will change in this regard.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 16:49:40

Diss, the subtext is China building out these routes with not just rail, but high volume roads (as they are already doing into their SE Asian neighborhood). Rail- sure, easy enough to retain Russian sovereignty over rail transit. But in a pile of articles I've read this marked difference to other transit routes is not mentioned. Like we are all meant to believe Chinese benevolence will win an open Russia. My post & your comment are to suggest not.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 18:54:19

Road route is mainly through China through middle East heading to Europe, with a branch North to Moscow from Turkey and from Moscow on to Eastern Europe (this road probably already exists and will just be up graded).

Its all about trade so Im sure everyone connected will be getting an advantage .
Their importance as a trade bridge will need to be protected from outside threats by the eager customers and exporters all along the line.
It makes China and Russia stronger and more in-bedded into European economies and gives them more influence
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 13 May 2018, 15:16:53

I saw a new documentary about this massive project today:

https://youtu.be/PbQqjdEBXqM?t=2s

Strange that we don't hear more about it.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 13 May 2018, 16:37:02

Rod_Cloutier wrote:I saw a new documentary about this massive project today:

https://youtu.be/PbQqjdEBXqM?t=2s

Strange that we don't hear more about it.

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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 13 May 2018, 17:03:16

pstarr wrote:-snip-

We made facebook. Our very own Hillary beat Donald fair and square.


I will probably regret asking, but what do you mean by that?

If you are talking about the popular versus electoral college vote totals, that has happened multiple times, because that is the way the system was designed, for good reasons.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 13 Sep 2018, 17:44:04

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence ... 108b2731e9
China is stretching the limits of not just its own domestic economic/resources capacity but it along with India seem to be of the entire planet. Ever since they both decided to go down the industrialization and growth path, they have become the canary in the coal mine to signal that humanity was dead set to crash as fast as it could into the proverbial brick wall.

[quote] The next financial crash is imminent, and China’s resource crisis could be the triggerOver three decades, the value of energy China extracts from its domestic oil, gas and coal supplies has plummeted by half [/quote]
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 13 Sep 2018, 18:54:54

India & China were both industrial growth economies before the British Empire existed.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 18:58:38

I read this and Im going to book a ticket

The world's longest high-speed rail network will extend to downtown Hong Kong on September 23, providing a direct connection to 44 mainland destinations.
With the addition of services from Guangzhou and Shenzhen - the major cities closest to Hong Kong - what's now a daylong train trip to Beijing would be cut to nine hours.

China's high-speed network stretches for 25,000 kilometres

http://www.traveller.com.au/hong-kong-b ... nes-h15j2a
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby MD » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 02:15:54

what's not mentioned are the highways china is building through the himalayas and south through pakistan. road projects in china are in the scale of the interstate projects through north america post ww11
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 03:09:11

Thirty-five years ago, China's per capita income was only one-third of that of sub-Sahara Africa. Today, China is the world's largest manufacturing powerhouse: It produces nearly 50 percent of the world's major industrial goods, including crude steel (800 percent of the U.S. level and 50 percent of global supply), cement (60 percent of the world's production), coal (50 percent of the world's production), vehicles (more than 25 percent of global supply) and industrial patent applications (about 150 percent of the U.S. level). China is also the world's largest producer of ships, high-speed trains, robots, tunnels, bridges, highways, chemical fibers, machine tools, computers, cellphones, etc.

I think from a modern perspective this rise from "Backward Agrarian Society to Industrial Powerhouse in Just 35 Years" stands out both comparitively in the modern world and in the history of China.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications ... t-35-years
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 08:45:13

That apart from the Napoleon quote, ignores the reality that China was well ahead of Western Europe a very long time before the modern era.

https://fee.org/articles/chinas-forgott ... evolution/
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby dissident » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 10:45:30

SeaGypsy wrote:That apart from the Napoleon quote, ignores the reality that China was well ahead of Western Europe a very long time before the modern era.

https://fee.org/articles/chinas-forgott ... evolution/


It is true that hubris underlies a lot of western thinking about the "lesser races". But it is also true that civilizations have various cycles and China was a shadow of its former self by the late 1800s. Mao's communism did not transform it into an urbanized industrial power and it was 80% agrarian in 1980. Of course, this is not longer the case and post-communist development has raised the standard of living substantially. China's GDP growth has depended on domestic demand since the 1990s. Trump is not going to coerce it with some tariffs since it does not need exports to thrive. By contrast, America and other hubris-filled self-appointed masters of the universe have offshored so much of their economies that they are in for a world of hurt if they try to pull shock changes in the current order.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 10:54:57

Very true Dissident. The Western rich countries are no longer at the top of the pecking order. The BRICS and especially Asia ie. China, India and the other "tigers" of Asia are fasting becoming the hub and lynchpin of world economic activity. Their recent dealings and treaties including the disengaging from the Dollar as well as all the development spearheaded by China is quickly transforming the Geopolitical and econonomic landscape to one of the preeminence of Asia especially China and the comparative waning of Western political and economic hegemony. This subject has been talked about alot in recent years by all pertinent players. One wonders why the US is now being so aggressive with its military. Perhaps because it too sees quite clearly the writing on the wall and its using the only leverage it has left.
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby dissident » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 11:14:57

onlooker wrote:Very true Dissident. The Western rich countries are no longer at the top of the pecking order. The BRICS and especially Asia ie. China, India and the other "tigers" of Asia are fasting becoming the hub and lynchpin of world economic activity. Their recent dealings and treaties including the disengaging from the Dollar as well as all the development spearheaded by China is quickly transforming the Geopolitical and econonomic landscape to one of the preeminence of Asia especially China and the comparative waning of Western political and economic hegemony. This subject has been talked about alot in recent years by all pertinent players. One wonders why the US is now being so aggressive with its military. Perhaps because it too sees quite clearly the writing on the wall and its using the only leverage it has left.


We have here a morality tale. Rampant greed driven "development" (supposedly the profit motive is the only parameter that matters to optimal economic development) has driven the western economies into a dead end. Fake GDP growth via debt generation and offshoring of jobs to sweat-shop havens has not resulted in the trickle down utopia envisioned by some back in the 1980s and earlier. The sweat-shops are developing too and the profit margins are falling. But there is nowhere to go to repeat the process. Belligerence is the only "option" left. A hope to restore the good old days by blowing up the current reality.

Trump's MAGA basically realizes the existence of the problem. But repatriation of the offshored jobs is not so easy and we have some US companies suffering because of the tariffs on China. I also don't think that the globalized US mega-corporations are too keen to turn the clock back. Decades have been invested into an economic model dependant on offshoring. I can't see a path back to the 1950s that would take only a few years and would not entail a lot of economic pain (depression).
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Re: One Belt, One Road

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 11:40:45

Nailed it Diss.
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