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THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Selling half of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:03:37

Revi wrote:Maybe... Buy high and sell low. I think it's not a great move.


It is the government. Since when is making a great move what they do?
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Re: Selling half of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:06:16

Revi wrote:Whatever your political persuasion, it seems like a bad decision to me to sell a real asset.


Oil is a commodity. The SPR itself is a real asset. We can refill the SPR, assuming we don't sell it as a "real" asset, with royalties taken in kind, exactly as Cog said. It is also contained in leases of all types, if the landowner wants that 1/8th delivered as commodity, hey, the company will do it.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 09:51:05

WASHINGTON D.C. (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. is poised to sell half of its emergency oil reserves to help pay its bills, something critics say defies the reason the stockpile was created decades ago as a hedge against supply disruptions.

The spending deal that passed both houses of Congress and was sent to the White House early Friday calls for selling 100 MMbbl from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve by 2027. Combined with other sales approved last year, that would mean the volume of oil in the reserve would fall by 45%, to about 303 MMbbl. The White House said President Donald Trump will sign the bill Friday morning.

"This is the biggest non-emergency sale in American history," said Kevin Book, managing director of ClearView Energy Partners in Washington. "This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net."

At today’s oil price of about $60/bbl, a sale of 100 MMbbl would raise $6 billion. But it’s impossible to determine exactly how much money the government would raise with the proposed sales because oil prices fluctuate wildly and the budget plan calls for the sales to take place between now and the fiscal year that ends Sept. 30, 2027.

The stockpile is kept inside a network of underground caverns and storage tanks along the U.S. Gulf Coast and has a capacity of 700 MMbbl, making it the world’s largest supply of emergency crude oil. It was created in 1970s after the Arab oil embargo sent prices skyrocketing and forced Americans to ration gasoline, but has more recently become Congress’s go-to piggy bank, used to fund everything from roads to drugs to deficit reduction.

Past drawdowns approved by Congress have included 25 MMbbl to pay for a medical research bill in 2015 and 66 MMbbl to pay for transportation legislation in 2016. A draw down of 7 MMbbl, worth an estimated $600 million, helped pay for a package of tax cuts passed by Congress in December.

Emergency uses have included sales after Operation Desert Storm in 1991, Hurricane Katrina in 2005, and an oil-supply disruption in Libya in 2011. It was also tapped last year after Hurricane Harvey left refiners in Texas and Louisiana unable to secure crude. "This is a good example of why we need an SPR," Energy Secretary Rick Perry said at the time.

The last drawdown, a congressionally mandated sale in September 2017, fetched an average $47.45/bbl, while the one before that drew $53.88/bbl. Both sales yielded significantly more money than the government paid for the existing reserve oil, some of which is decades old. According to the Energy Department, the reserve’s inventory cost an average $29.70/bbl.

With the U.S. awash in crude oil produced at home, some in Washington have questioned its usefulness, including Trump, who proposed drawing down half of it in his budget request last year -- a move the White House estimated would raise nearly $17 billion dollars.

"A smaller SPR is projected to be able continue to meet international obligations and emergency needs," the White House said in its budget proposal.

The spending bill also reduces the reserve’s legal minimum inventory level to 350 MMbbl, from 450 MMbbl. Since Congress began selling off the reserve to fill budget holes in 2017, it has not authorized the Energy Department to replace any of the crude.

Energy Undersecretary Mark Menezes said in an interview Thursday that the reserve was not intended to be "a government ATM."

"My own view is that SPR was put in place as an energy security mechanism to ensure that we had supply," Menezes said.

He’s not alone.

"Selling the SPR to cover non-energy budget expenses is deeply short-sighted and unwise," said Bob McNally, president of consultant Rapidan Energy Group in Washington and a former senior energy official at the White House under Republican President George W. Bush. "In 1996 and 1997 we sold SPR barrels to pay for unrelated budget expenses and I was in the White House when we put those barrels back at higher prices starting about five years later, after 9/11."

The pending budget bill also authorizes $350 million in sales to help pay for efforts to modernize the stockpile itself -- a sign Congress doesn’t want to completely do away with the emergency oil supply.

"The SPR is only effective if it can get its petroleum to market quickly and efficiently in the event of a supply emergency," said Robbie Diamond, president of Securing America’s Future Energy, a group aiming to pare U.S. dependence on oil. "Geopolitical risk is alive and well in the oil market, and the SPR is America’s only formal short-term line of defense against oil supply disruptions and price spikes."


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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby GHung » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 10:01:14

Eating our seed corn? At a time of relative abundance? To help pay for tax cuts?
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby jawagord » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 11:29:51

I think the US can let go of it's security blanket. There's got to be a lot of better uses for $15-30 billion dollars than having the government perpetually storing oil that is not used?

1. US has plenty of oil and fuel storage outside of the SPR.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_stoc_w ... _nus_w.htm

2. The SPR mandate was to supply 90 days of Net crude imports, so as US imports fall the size of the SPR can be reduced. See Obama era report on reducing SPR volumes, Trump is just supersizing the reduction based upon falling US imports.

"As a member of the IEA, the United States has two primary obligations:
1. As a net oil importer, the United States must maintain crude petroleum and petroleum product
stock inventories, whether held by industry or government, equal to at least 90 days of net
crude petroleum and petroleum product imports. Of the 29 IEA members, 25 other net
importers have the same obligation. The remaining three members—Canada, Denmark, and
Norway—do not have a stockholding obligation because they are net oil exporters.
2. The United States must be able to contribute to an IEA collective action based on its share of IEA
oil consumption. This obligation can be met by any measure a member nation may choose,
including release of strategic or commercial stocks or demand restraint. As of October 2015,
the United States must be prepared to contribute 43.9% of the barrels released in an IEA
coordinated response."


https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/201 ... ress_0.pdf
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 17:05:35

I think Trump and Clinton share the same goal: a balanced budget. Clinton achieved his goal after a million-man reduction of the US Armed Forces. It was quite an accomplishment, except the expected "Peace Dividend" never materialized. Instead we had the "Arab Spring" and 9/11/2001.

FWIW, I agree that this is a mistake, unless Trump also pursues a military modernization plan that makes our Armed Forces less dependant upon petroleum. That might be the other side of this coin, and it might not.

Either way, the Doves were eaten by the Hawks, although as some are being consumed, they are still screeching.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby GHung » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 17:51:28

I think Trump and Clinton share the same goal: a balanced budget.


The self-proclaimed 'King of Debt" wants to balance the budget? By reducing taxes, adding to the deficit, building the wall and rebuilding the military? That would be some trick. Squeezing a few $billion out of the SPR certainly won't help much.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 18:00:23

I think it's a mistake to believe that Trump will run the government the way he runs his various businesses.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 13:34:17

Ghung - "The self-proclaimed 'King of Debt" wants to balance the budget?" Does it really matter what the POTUS really wants? Last week the congressional R's and D's shit all over the budget they had been pissing on for the last 9 years. Do we need to remind folks that during President Obama's terms US debt about doubled from $10 trillion to almost $20 trillion. Who considers that running a balanced budget?

I laugh when the pendants say we just saw "bi-partnership". The R's and D's split the f*cking imaginary money pie. Like two bank robes splitting the loot. The only real winners are the "crooks". LOL.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:43:32

ROCKMAN wrote:Ghung - "The self-proclaimed 'King of Debt" wants to balance the budget?" Does it really matter what the POTUS really wants? Last week the congressional R's and D's shit all over the budget they had been pissing on for the last 9 years. Do we need to remind folks that during President Obama's terms US debt about doubled from $10 trillion to almost $20 trillion. Who considers that running a balanced budget?

I laugh when the pendants say we just saw "bi-partnership". The R's and D's split the f*cking imaginary money pie. Like two bank robes splitting the loot. The only real winners are the "crooks". LOL.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!

Even if we give Obama a pass through, say, 2009, until it was clear the economy was in recovery mode -- it's not like the dems didn't run LARGE budget deficits the remaining 6 years.
With sufficient votes from BOTH SIDES allowing that.

I get so sick and tired of BOTH sides proclaiming to be fiscal heroes and damning the other side as "the problem" re spending, and ESPECIALLY on fiscal prudence (i.e. standing for balanced budgets).

BOTH SIDES, over time, are FLAGRANTLY prone to spend far more than they take in via taxes. Arguing about the details is nonsense, given that reality. Whether it's a tax and spend and big government approach generally favored by the left, or a cut taxes and spend on "stuff we like" and to hell with everybody else approach generally favored by the right -- the result is a fiscal disaster over time.

And to me, the more both sides (and their cheering sections) claim the "other side" is the problem re the budget, the less credible they are.

If we only do one thing, I keep arguing for some kind of Graham-Ruddman style balanced budget amendment with TEETH, that forces at least balanced budgets except in times of "dire emergency" (say the recent financial crisis, a major war, etc). At least that way the deficit would tend to get smaller with inflation except in times of "dire emergency" instead of growing rapidly ALL THE TIME now.

What do we really get? Crickets re meaningful policy of debt control and endless spending. Of course, it's not like this is unique to the US. Look at Europe. Look at Japan with a debt to GDP ratio that makes ours look tame, even as they have a serious demographic problem (sooner than the US).

And all we keep do is electing spenders, because they tell people what they want to hear. I see no serious sense of responsibility re fiscal prudence anywhere when it comes to state or federal government. What could possibly go wrong. :roll:

(Sorry for the rant. I've seriously HATED this over-spending since I learned as an eight year old that the SS "Trust Fund" is just an IOU.)
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby EdwinSm » Fri 16 Feb 2018, 04:47:35

OS - regarding that rant, I believe that there is a political theory that any democracy can only last around 100 or so years....it starts out well then people realise that they can vote for more and more benefits for themselves that the government can not afford, so more and more debt is taken on until the system collapses.

Like the dates for peak oil, the 100 years might be a little on the fast side in practice, but I do think the theory has a lot going for it.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 16 Feb 2018, 10:12:27

Ed - With respect to your 100 year metric consider that with the exception of war the US didn't start CONSISTANTLY running large deficits relative to GDP until recently. Perhaps your clock should start around 1980. And perhaps 100 years is a tad optimistic. Here's our deficit history from 1790 to 2015:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=850&b ... 8793248400
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 16 Feb 2018, 13:48:22

ROCKMAN wrote:Ed - With respect to your 100 year metric consider that with the exception of war the US didn't start CONSISTANTLY running large deficits relative to GDP until recently. Perhaps your clock should start around 1980. And perhaps 100 years is a tad optimistic. Here's our deficit history from 1790 to 2015:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=850&b ... 8793248400


That graph makes meaning appear pretty simple, when you have a Republican President and a completely Democrat Congress post 1980 you get massive spending while both sides claim it is the other party's fault. Then in the 2010's you got the reverse with a Democrat President and republican congress pulling the same shenanigans. Seems like both parties are happy to spend like drunken sailors as long as they have the 'he made me do it' excuse to fall back upon.

There is also the factor that starting in 1965 there were a lot of unfunded mandates promised to people and eventually those bills started coming due, which certainly did not help financing. The one recent time things seemed to go well was when we had President Clinton D and Newt Gingrich R working together to balance budget problems, but that only lasted about 5 years of the last 40.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 16 Feb 2018, 15:12:15

Tanada wrote:The one recent time things seemed to go well was when we had President Clinton D and Newt Gingrich R working together to balance budget problems, but that only lasted about 5 years of the last 40.

And I'll opine that despite both Clinton and Gingrich deserving kudos for helping make that happen:

1). A lot of that success was luck -- the "peace dividend" after the unraveling of the Soviet Union greatly helped make that short term success possible. That window ended in 2001.

2). The budget wasn't truly balanced. It was balanced on the books, but, for example, Social Security was already bleeding -- that just wasn't tracked annually as part of the ordinary budget counting process. However, the debts incurred are no less real UNLESS we decide to shaft future retirees re Social Security. (As we well might, as we continue to change the rules re how inflation is counted, tack on extra taxes, penalties, etc. The shafting is occurring, but it's very slow, lest the old voters get too angry short term. Same story, but much more flagrant, re Medicare.)
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 16 Feb 2018, 16:24:30

Outcast - " The shafting is occurring, but it's very slow, lest the old voters get too angry short term. Same story, but much more flagrant, re Medicare.) Not feeling too bad with my current deal. Turned 65 in 2016 but didn't retire until this last 31 Dec. Not going to complain about my Medicare. Felt I had good 100% private insurance while working. But now with Medicare (plus supplemental covering the 20% Medicare doesn't cover) I pay half of what I did for my company insurance. And a $187 deductible instead of $3,000. And no co-pays instead of $25-$50. And $1 to $3 prescriptions instead of $6 to $18.

Obviously the SS check doesn't compare to my old salary. But I'm not working 60+ hours a week either. LOL. Plus I have a little consulting gig. Of course having no debt, such as a mortgage, makes a huge difference, and allows us to not dig into our savings. OTOH I look at my 17 yo daughter and try not to imagine what her deal will be in 48 years.
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US sold oil with high levels of dangerous chemical

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 30 Mar 2018, 07:13:28


Three firms that bought oil last year from U.S. emergency stockpiles raised concerns about dangerous levels of a poisonous chemical in the cargoes, according to internal Department of Energy emails and shipping documents reviewed by Reuters


US sold oil with high levels of dangerous chemical
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US Dept. Of Energy sells 5.2 mln barrels of oil from SPR

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 30 Mar 2018, 07:27:13


The U.S. Department of Energy sold about 5.2 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) to five companies including top refiners Valero Energy Corp and Phillips 66, according to a notice on Wednesday: * Phillips 66 was sold the most amount of oil - about 2.3 million barrels - and Valero Marketing and Supply Co was sold 900,000 barrels. * Other winners include commodities trader Trafigura AG, which was sold 1 million barrels, refiners Motiva Enterprises and Marathon Petroleum Corp which were sold 600,000 barrels and 400,000 barrels respectively. * The oil was sold at an average price of about $63 a barrel. * The Department of Energy said earlier in March it will sell 7 million barrels of sweet crude oil from the country’s petroleum reserve as it complies with a 2015 law to help fund the federal government.


US Dept. Of Energy sells 5.2 mln barrels of oil from SPR
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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 30 Mar 2018, 09:51:00

The U.S Sold Contaminated Crude Oil From Its Strategic Reserve—Report

Three companies that have purchased crude oil from the United States now claim the oil contained unusually high levels of poisonous chemicals, according to Reuters.

Internal Energy Department emails obtained by Reuters show that Royal Dutch Shell, the Australian bank Macquarie Group, and PetroChina International America (the U.S. trading arm of a Chinese state-owned energy firm) have all been dissatisfied with the quality of oil purchased from the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR). Shell oil trader Steve Sellers wrote that his multinational company was "unpleasantly surprised” to discover high levels of hydrogen sulfide (HS2) in oil purchased from the SPR, the world's largest government reserve.

Initial tests run by Shell showed up fine, but further testing revealed H2S numbers running up to 600 parts per million (ppm), according to the Dutch-British company's emails to the department. OSHA says that levels that high could reduce a a grown adult to staggering and collapse within 5 minutes.

When a third party inspection group known as Inspectorate tested a sample from the SPR cargo purchased by the Australian Macquarie to be then sold to PetroChina, similar problems occurred. According to the Reuters-obtained documents, H2S levels of up to 9,000 parts per million (ppm) appeared. OSHA's warnings about H2S end at 2,000 ppm, where nearly instant death occurs. A terminal operator refused to allow workers to perform any additional tests out of concern about violating safety regulations.

In February of this year, a Congressional spending deal signed by President Trump declared that the United States would sell 100 million barrels of oil from the SPR by 2027. At the time, Kevin Book, managing director of ClearView Energy Partners in Washington told Bloomberg that "this is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net." But contamination in the U.S SPR could throw a wrench into the whole plan.

Problems with crude quality would make the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) less useful in an emergency because refiners would need to spend time and money removing contamination before producing fuel.

The Freeport facility is owned by Houston-based Enterprise Products Partners LP (EPD.N). Enterprise knew about higher levels of H2S in a small number of cargoes traded between private firms that passed through its terminal, Enterprise Senior Vice President Brent Secrest told Reuters in an interview.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1H50GI

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Re: THE US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 30 Mar 2018, 15:11:35

The contamination of the SPR has been a known problem for decades. It is caused by pumping oil into a salt dome formed from ancient ocean salts, some of the minerals are soluable and cause changes to the crude. Plans were in place to deal with the contaminants if the oil was needed here for strategic purposes. That they did not publicise this problem probably got more revenues from the amount they did sell from the SPR.
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Re: US sold oil with high levels of dangerous chemical

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 01 Apr 2018, 16:30:22

So oil always comes from the ground perfect and unadulterated?

Proper disclosure should have occurred, of course.

Aside from that, what's the problem? It's not as if, once properly treated and refined, the oil products created from this oil couldn't run a car or a lawn mower.

Now in a perfect world, the US government would never make a mistake.

Anyone here think ANY first world government never screws up?
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