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THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 18 Jan 2018, 23:37:53

NASA testing a tiny nuclear power plant the size of wastebasket that can power a Mars base.

nuclear-reactors-mars

Image

This new design for a tiny nuclear power plant is a big breakthrough....

The same tiny nuclear reactor that can power up a Mars base or Mars Rover could also be used to power an EV or a house back here on earth.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 08:38:48

The same tiny nuclear reactor that can power up a Mars base or Mars Rover could also be used to power an EV or a house back here on earth.


Right, Planty. A coffee can full of uranium in every garage and a chicken in every pot, eh?

Please dispose of your used reactors responsibly.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 11:32:05

GUANGZHOU, Jan. 9 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese nuclear power operator signed an agreement Tuesday with a French energy organization to deepen cooperation on nuclear power technology.

The deal, between China General Nuclear Power Corporation (CGN) and the French Alternative Energy and Atomic Energy Commission (CEA), focuses on areas such as nuclear reactor technology, advanced fuels and materials, and nuclear fuel cycles.

Under the agreement, CGN and CEA will deepen cooperation in the upstream and downstream nuclear power industry chain, including reactor life management and the concept design of the fourth-generation nuclear energy technology.

He Yu, chairman of CGN, said the new agreement will enhance bilateral exchanges in nuclear power technology and open new space for Sino-French nuclear power cooperation.

Founded in 1994, CGN is the largest nuclear power operator in China, with 39,000 employees worldwide. It focuses on the development of clean energies such as nuclear power, nuclear fuel, wind power and solar power.

The CEA is a key organization in research, development and innovation in France. Its main areas include defense and security, nuclear and renewable energy, and physical and life sciences.


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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:05:05

GHung wrote:
The same tiny nuclear reactor that can power up a Mars base or Mars Rover could also be used to power an EV or a house back here on earth.


Right, Planty. A coffee can full of uranium in every garage and a chicken in every pot, eh?


With time they can probably reduce the size of these amazing new little reactors even more....maybe get them down to the size of a coke can. Stick one in a house or a car or a truck and you've got all the energy you need and no CO2 emissions.

We can't keep relying on coal and oil and other FF, Gungy.

We've got a little problem with global warming happening just now---greenhouse gases emitted from burning fossil fuels are going to overheat the climate and damage the planet's ecosystem if we don't do something about it.

And Nuclear energy doesn't release CO2 or CH4.

Image
NASA has just made a major breakthough on tiny nuclear reactors for use on their space probes that may have major implications for energy generation back here on earth.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:36:41

Plantagenet wrote:-snip-

We've got a little problem with global warming happening just now---greenhouse gases emitted from burning fossil fuels are going to overheat the climate and damage the planet's ecosystem if we don't do something about it.

And Nuclear energy doesn't release CO2 or CH4.

-snip-


A popular misconception. Nuclear energy does release greenhouse gasses when uranium is mined, refined, and transported. About 15% as much as coal and 6% as much as natural gas. The mining machinery is gasoline (sometimes propane) powered and the heavy trucks are fueled with diesel. Then lots of electrical energy is consumed heating the uranium hexaflouride gas incandescently hot and spinning it in high speed centrifuges to seperate the U-235 from the U-238. This last COULD be done with nuclear-sourced electricity, but in fact the majority of grid energy is FF-sourced today.

Copious amounts of water and reagent chemicals are also used in the uranium refining process. Uranium fuel is not without environmental consequences, but you can honestly say that those are relatively minor compared to FF's.

The mining and refining of aluminum is also energy-intensive, and wire insulation and fiberglas are essentially made from petrochemicals. So niether solar PV nor wind turbines are completely free from FF's when manufactured.

ALL production of all types of power generation equipment including nuclear, solar, and wind ceases when petroleum fuels go away was my point. Additionally, nuclear fuels can no longer be manufactured.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 13:45:35

Fortunately China is not mired in the stupidity practiced by he media and politicians in the so called advanced Democracies.

China starts work on “landmark” fourth-generation fast breeder reactor

China has begun pouring concrete for one of the world’s first “gen IV” nuclear reactors, the CFR-600, on the coast of Fujian province, about 400km south of Shanghai.

The 600MW demonstration unit, which is due to be complete in 2023, follows a 20MW experimental reactor completed in 2011. It is intended to be the prototype of a 1GW commercial reactor scheduled for around 2030.

The significance of the sodium-cooled reactor is that it points the way to the “fast breeder” fourth generation designs that are expected to be adopted by the global nuclear power industry over the next century.

It is not the only design that the Chinese industry is pursuing. Another fast breeder gen IV is being built in nearby Jiangxi province. This uses “pebble-bed” fuel and a helium cooling system.

The advantage of these reactors, which use fast neutrons to split uranium atoms, is that they are about 60 times more fuel efficient than slow reactors, they generate less radioactive waste and they can be used in a “closed cycle” system, in which waste is reprocessed into new fuel.

This last requirement is particularly important for China, which is planning a massive expansion of its nuclear fleet, but it concerned about future shortages of uranium. The China Institute of Atomic Energy, which designed the CFR-600, is envisaging an increase in output from 40GW in 2015 to 400GW in 2050, at which time it is forecast that it will account for 16% of the country’s 2,500GW installed capacity.

Speaking at the inauguration ceremony, Wang Shoujun the chairman of China National Nuclear Corporation commented: “The fast neutron reactor project has been recognised as China’s major scientific and technological nuclear energy programme, which is of much significance for the closed cycle of nuclear fuel, promoting the sustainable development of China’s nuclear energy and boosting the local economy.”


http://www.globalconstructionreview.com ... ion-fast-/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 14:03:47

The closed nuclear fuel cycle planned looks like this,
Image


Light Water Reactor spent fuel created Reactor Grade Plutonium. The spent fuel is reprocessed and the plutonium and uranium recovered is used to make Breeder Reactor fuel. The Breeder Reacter burns the Reactor Grade Plutonium to make fresh high fussionable percentage Plutonium in the blanket. The blanket Plutonium is made into fresh Light Water Reactor fuel and produce power. The initial fuel goes through the figure eight pattern with the fast reactors burning the poor quality reactor grade plutonium and the light water reactors burning the fresh Plutonium and a little natural Uranium 235 that is left in the fuel.

I first saw this fuel system proposed way back around 1974 and the Chinese have skipped over all the political BS to go right for it. We could probably even make a deal to give them our spent reactor fuel so they would have a huge stock of reactor grade plutonium to draw upon.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 14:25:39

KaiserJeep wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:
We've got a little problem with global warming happening just now---greenhouse gases emitted from burning fossil fuels are going to overheat the climate and damage the planet's ecosystem if we don't do something about it.

And Nuclear energy doesn't release CO2 or CH4.


A popular misconception. Nuclear energy does release greenhouse gasses when uranium is mined, refined, and transported. About 15% as much as coal and 6% as much as natural gas.


Actually it is completely true that electrical power generation using nuclear energy releases no CO2. Check your physics textbook---no CO2 is released when nuclear fission occurs.

You are talking about the carbon releases during Mining and refining of uranium. These are actually separate and different processes from power generation using nuclear energy. So lets look at CO2 emissions in this area as a separate question.

Obviously if we are talking about using nuclear power to reduce the use of fossil fuels, it is implicit that the idea is to shift to EVs for transportation and mining, and switch to nuclear power from coal/NG electrical power plants This will greatly reduce if not eliminate the CO2 production associated with mining and refining.

The net result is tremendously reduced CO2 emissions at every step when nuclear energy is used to generate electricity instead of coal/NG/oil.

KaiserJeep wrote: Uranium fuel is not without environmental consequences, but you can honestly say that those are relatively minor compared to FF's.


Yup. Exactly right.

KaiserJeep wrote:The mining and refining of aluminum is also energy-intensive, and wire insulation and fiberglas are essentially made from petrochemicals....
ALL production of all types of power generation equipment including nuclear, solar, and wind ceases when petroleum fuels go away was my point.


Petroleum fuels will never go completely away. But their use should be curtailed as much as possible to reduce CO2 and CH4 emissions and mitigate global warming, even if we have to use nuclear energy to do it.

Cheers!

PS: KaiserJeep---I appreciate your technical expertise as usual. Sorry to quibble with you on these points here. I suspect our viewpoints on the nuclear power issue are pretty similar, except with regards to the global warming part of the story.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 16:21:07

NASA video showing how the new very small "kilopower" nuclear reactor works.

NASA kilopower reactor

They can already make these so small that one can power a toaster. The plan is send 5 or so to Mars to power the habitat.

These little reactors will also be used on deep space probes.

NASA says they are very simple and easy to build with off-the-shelf equipment all available now here in the USA. This NASA video shows how to build one.

NASA kilo power reactor construction

And, as NASA says in their video, they could easily power a household right down here on earth.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 17:05:23

India says their prototype fast reactor will be powered up in two months adding 500 MWe to their grid.

Prototype fast breeder reactor to be commissioned in two months: IGCAR director

Chennai: The country's first 500MW Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) is expected to be commissioned in two months and commercial generation of power is likely to begin by end of 2018. Director of Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) Arun Kumar Bhaduri announced on Thursday at the 5th International Congress of the International Institute of Welding.

Bhaduri said the reactor, designed by IGCAR as a technology demonstrator, is in the final stage of commissioning. "In two months we will declare the reactor's criticality," he said. The Rs5,400 crore reactor has been built by Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam Limited (Bhavini) at Kalpakkam.
Bhaduri had earlier said that a series of tests were being conducted in the presence of regulators. "Because this reactor is a first of its kind, we have got four regulators, which is usually not the practice. The idea is to take time and it better rather than make a mistake in haste and repent later," he said.
Simultaneously efforts will be on to build six more reactors each with a capacity of 600MW with a design optimised to low production costs and match WNA safety criteria, the IGCAR director said. "We are looking at constructing six more reactors that we call future fast breeder reactors," he said.
R Chidambaram, principal scientific advisor to the Government of India, who also addressed the gathering, said high quality welding is critical in a nuclear plant to prevent major accidents. "In a sodium-cooled fast reactor, leakage of sodium can lead to fire and leakage in one tube in the steam generator could result in discarding the entire steam generator. The industry must ensure zero defects and no distortion. There are safe welding techniques available and the non-destructive testing in nuclear power plant will ensure that the welding is of high quality," the PSA said.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 968967.cms
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 19:19:05

Subjectivist wrote:India says their prototype fast reactor will be powered up in two months adding 500 MWe to their grid.

Prototype fast breeder reactor to be commissioned in two months: IGCAR director

Chennai: The country's first 500MW Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) is expected to be commissioned in two months and commercial generation of power is likely to begin by end of 2018. Director of Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) Arun Kumar Bhaduri announced on Thursday at the 5th International Congress of the International Institute of Welding.

Bhaduri said the reactor, designed by IGCAR as a technology demonstrator, is in the final stage of commissioning. "In two months we will declare the reactor's criticality," he said. The Rs5,400 crore reactor has been built by Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam Limited (Bhavini) at Kalpakkam.
Bhaduri had earlier said that a series of tests were being conducted in the presence of regulators. "Because this reactor is a first of its kind, we have got four regulators, which is usually not the practice. The idea is to take time and it better rather than make a mistake in haste and repent later," he said.
Simultaneously efforts will be on to build six more reactors each with a capacity of 600MW with a design optimised to low production costs and match WNA safety criteria, the IGCAR director said. "We are looking at constructing six more reactors that we call future fast breeder reactors," he said.
R Chidambaram, principal scientific advisor to the Government of India, who also addressed the gathering, said high quality welding is critical in a nuclear plant to prevent major accidents. "In a sodium-cooled fast reactor, leakage of sodium can lead to fire and leakage in one tube in the steam generator could result in discarding the entire steam generator. The industry must ensure zero defects and no distortion. There are safe welding techniques available and the non-destructive testing in nuclear power plant will ensure that the welding is of high quality," the PSA said.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 968967.cms


Yeah, they are going to fire that baby up and hook it to this grid:

Image

Image

What could go wrong?
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 22 Jan 2018, 15:23:20

GHung wrote:
What could go wrong?


They could turn off the nuclear power plant and switch to generating electricity using coal, like the Germans did....or switch to using NG like the people on the US east coast have done.

Either way, their emissions of greenhouse gases would go way up.

Image
Germany switched to "brown coal" to replace nuclear power, causing their CO2 emissions to go waaaay up.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 12:56:54

Bankrupt France will soon change its name too. They plan on being experts in the business of dismantling starting with France.

New Areva changes name to Orano


http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-New ... 01185.html

Quote:
Orano said its new name derived from Ouranos, the Greek god who became Uranus in Roman mythology and from whom the planet takes its name. It was later to serve as a point of reference when the term 'uranium' was created.

"Orano symbolizes a new start," said Orano CEO Philippe Knoche. "A new start that has been under preparation for several years now. We have set up a new organisational structure, a new business plan, a new strategic action plan and a new social contract. Our new identity is the natural result of all this."

He added, "Our new name symbolises our conviction: nuclear power has a future, as it is a competitive, low-carbon [source of] energy that creates jobs. Orano has all it needs to play a key role in this. We have big ambitions for Orano, namely for it to become the leader in the production and recycling of nuclear materials, waste management, and dismantling within the next ten years. I have full confidence in our capacity to give nuclear energy its full value."
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 12:59:57

The Peoples Republic of California has succeeded in going bankrupt.

Diablo Canyon shutdown last chapter for clean nuclear power in California

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/25/d ... alifornia/

Quote:
The Public Utility Commission has accepted PG&E’s plan to close Diablo Canyon, the state’s single largest power plant and the last of its nuclear reactors, once their federal operating licenses expire. PG&E determined it would be “uneconomical” to continue operations beyond that point and plans to recover the lost generation with natural gas, renewables, and energy efficiency measures. The decision has been several years in the making and the outcome is of little surprise at this point. But what really drove this decision? To answer that question, it’s worth exploring that word “uneconomical.” California’s electricity markets have been qualified, constrained, and manipulated in so many ways that more accurate term would be “politically unacceptable.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 16:11:38

StarvingLion wrote:The Peoples Republic of California ....
Diablo Canyon shutdown last chapter for clean nuclear power in California

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/25/d ... alifornia/

The Public Utility Commission has accepted PG&E’s plan to close Diablo Canyon, the state’s single largest power plant and the last of its nuclear reactors, once their federal operating licenses expire. PG&E ...plans to recover the lost generation with natural gas.... ”


The liberal environmentalists are going to kill us all. They don't seem to understand that increased use of NG means increased levels of CH4 in the atmosphere, a greenhouse gas 60 times more powerful then CO2.

Its crazy to shut down a power source that emits no CO2 and replace it with power sources that emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

You'd think the moronic politicians who run California would've noticed that the state is experiencing droughts, record heat waves, and record forest fires that are linked to global warming, and taken steps to reduce their fossil fuel emissions. But no......California shuts its nuclear plants and BOOSTS its emissions of greenhouse gases.

Image
Shame on California. First they exterminate the California Golden Bear with unchecked hunting, and now they want to exterminate everything else with unchecked carbon emissions.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 17:35:53

Plantagenet wrote:
StarvingLion wrote:The Peoples Republic of California ....
Diablo Canyon shutdown last chapter for clean nuclear power in California

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/25/d ... alifornia/

The Public Utility Commission has accepted PG&E’s plan to close Diablo Canyon, the state’s single largest power plant and the last of its nuclear reactors, once their federal operating licenses expire. PG&E ...plans to recover the lost generation with natural gas.... ”


The liberal environmentalists are going to kill us all. They don't seem to understand that increased use of NG means increased levels of CH4 in the atmosphere, a greenhouse gas 60 times more powerful then CO2.

Its crazy to shut down a power source that emits no CO2 and replace it with power sources that emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

You'd think the moronic politicians who run California would've noticed that the state is experiencing droughts, record heat waves, and record forest fires that are linked to global warming, and taken steps to reduce their fossil fuel emissions. But no......California shuts its nuclear plants and BOOSTS its emissions of greenhouse gases.

Image
Shame on California. First they exterminate the California Golden Bear with unchecked hunting, and now they want to exterminate everything else with unchecked carbon emissions.

Cheers!


Meh. Diablo is a poor poster child for nuke plants that should remain open. While it produces about 8.5% of California's power, both reactors are pre-70s designs located less than a mile from a fault line. Better to fix the nimbyism in regard to further wind development in the state than squeeze more years out of outdated reactors in a crappy location. Or build new modern reactors that aren't located next to fault lines.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 18:17:36

[sarc]Don't you know that wind turbines are death mills, sweeping bats and the poor little birdies out of the sky?

Covering a field in solar panel arrays suppresses the natural semi-arrid vegetation in favor of the shade loving groundcovers.

Hydropower floods natural mountain valleys behind dams, causing untold damage to plant and animal species, replacing them with aquatic species.

For the good of the Earth, the only reasonable solution is human genocide.[/sarc]
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 02 Feb 2018, 20:55:28

Modern Monetary Theory is working beautifully in Japan. A nuclear reprocessing facility that has been under construction for 30 years has been delayed again. When will it be completed? Never.

Image

https://asia.nikkei.com/Japan-Update/Ja ... er-setback

TOKYO/AOMORI -- Japan's central government is finding itself in a bind over its long-standing nuclear fuel cycle policy, due to repeated delays in the completion of a key facility, two and a half decades after construction work began.

The policy suffered another setback recently as Japan Nuclear Fuel Ltd. unveiled plans to delay by three years the completion of its spent-nuclear-fuel reprocessing plant under construction in the Aomori Prefecture village of Rokkasho.

JNFL said late last year that the plant is now scheduled to be completed during the first half of fiscal 2021, beginning in April 2021, instead of during the first half of fiscal 2018 as previously planned.

Construction work on the plant began in 1993, with completion initially planned for 1997. Almost 25 years later, the plant has yet to go online, despite the more than 2 trillion yen ($17.9 billion) that has already been spent.

Japan is resource-poor and imports almost all of its oil, mostly from the politically volatile Middle East. The country has pinned its hopes on the nuclear fuel cycle policy to enhance its energy self-sufficiency.

The policy specifically calls for reprocessing spent fuel from nuclear power plants, extracting the plutonium and uranium, and recycling them as nuclear fuel.

It faces another major problem. Even if the reprocessing plant eventually goes online, it is still unclear whether Japan will be able to consume all the plutonium extracted from the spent fuel.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 09:16:45

2,490,000 Gridweenies held captive:

Georgia Regulators Won’t Reconsider Decision On Vogtle Nuclear Project

Georgia regulators won’t reconsider their decision allowing construction at a troubled nuclear power project to continue.

The Public Service Commission voted in December to keep the nuclear expansion at Plant Vogtle going despite billions of dollars in cost overruns and a five-year delay.

The consumer advocacy group Georgia Watch had asked the PSC to revisit that December decision.

“We still have not seen any analysis of what the actual cost will be to ratepayers and how much more the company’s shareholders will profit as a result of that decision,” said Liz Coyle, director of Georgia Watch.

Georgia Power is the biggest owner of Plant Vogtle, and its customers pay for financing costs and profits on their monthly bills.

Coyle said the PSC didn’t gather all the evidence before voting to allow the project to go forward.

“Some of what they ordered has a real impact on ratepayers, on the customers of Georgia Power,” she said.

For example, allowing Georgia Power to begin collecting money from its customers to pay for the capital costs of the nuclear units as they come online, rather than waiting for the project to be completed.

At a hearing Thursday morning, Georgia Power’s attorney Kevin Greene told the PSC the decision they’d made was legally sound.

“This motion for reconsideration merely asks you to change your decision because Georgia Watch disagrees with it,” said Greene.

The Commission unanimously voted not to reconsider.

Earlier this week, Georgia Power said the nuclear fee on its customers’ bills would be lower starting in April because of the federal tax overhaul. Georgia Power customers will also receive credits on three electric bills this year coming from payments from Toshiba. That company owed money to the owners of Plant Vogtle after its subsidiary Westinghouse, which was the lead contractor on the nuclear project, went bankrupt.

https://www.wabe.org/georgia-regulators ... r-project/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 09:26:33

"Gridweenies".

Cute, some hikamori variant is spouting off about the irrelevance of base load electricity supply to modern civilization. The hinterland simply has no capacity to absorb all the "gridweenies" taking up survivalist lifestyles. So we come to the real essence of the anti-nuke dementia: the desire to cull most of humanity so that the "ready ones" can take over.
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