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China and the solar industry (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: US imposes hefty tariffs on Chinese solar

Unread postby kanon » Thu 18 Dec 2014, 08:26:29

Yes, domestic US solar panel producer(s) (SolarWorld, I believe -- http://www.greentechmedia.com ) complained and the trade commission acted. My point is these actions seem always to favor the established interests, which does not include renewable energy. If there was a US circuit board maker who complained about IPad circuits from China, what would be the outcome?
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Re: US imposes hefty tariffs on Chinese solar

Unread postby Longtimber » Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:43:25

If you remove 1st Solar and Sunpower from the US mix since product is not on the open market, US product available for installers is a tiny fraction of 1% Global production. IIRC SolarWorld major stockholder is Dubai, Sunpower's is TOTAL. China is dead serious about making PV. US energy consumers/slaves will be energy independent from what again? Since China can make Quality PV for ~55 cents, US Shale can produce LTO barrels under $20. PV is scaleable. LTO?
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Re: US imposes hefty tariffs on Chinese solar

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 18 Dec 2014, 13:04:18

It is worth noting that Chinese manufacturing of anything is not very innovative. The highest efficiency monocrystalline solar panels currently in production are based on 4" and 6" silicon wafer machinery exported to China from Silicon Valley in the 1990's. The design of the present production panels themselves are based on US panels from the 1990's.

I mention this because because the primary materials in these panels are silicon and the aluminum, both of which are produced in electric arc furnaces powered by fossil fuels. Then there is heavy electric consumption in sawing. polishing, and infusing semiconductor junctions in the wafers. The passivating films and wire insulation are made from petrochemical feedstocks and the completed panels are then shipped in container ships across the Pacific ocean.

IOW, the present solar panels need a complete re-design for production in a post-oil world, and thereafter need to be manufactured near where they will be consumed. That is the purpose of tariffs, to protect the companies which innovate and design and re-design products as needed.

The fact that labor is much cheaper in China is only temporarily true. The rising Chinese Middle Class and the falling living standards of the US Middle Class will eventually meet somewhere in the middle. We need a viable and competitive solar production capacity in the USA, and the tariff will help.
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Re: US imposes hefty tariffs on Chinese solar

Unread postby Paulo1 » Thu 18 Dec 2014, 20:17:51

re statement: "I mention this because because the primary materials in these panels are silicon and the aluminum, both of which are produced in electric arc furnaces powered by fossil fuels. Then there is heavy electric consumption in sawing. polishing, and infusing semiconductor junctions in the wafers."

Maybe these should be made in BC at Kitimat where they use hydro (Kemano) to run their aluminum smelter. Plus, we have site C dam just announced. We could build them here using renewable electricity at very reasonable energy rates. Of course, US panel producers would simply cry, "foul, your hydro is too cheap", and put tarrifs up. It's how you do business.
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Re: US imposes hefty tariffs on Chinese solar

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Thu 18 Dec 2014, 21:14:06

KaiserJeep wrote:It is worth noting that Chinese manufacturing of anything is not very innovative. The highest efficiency monocrystalline solar panels currently in production are based on 4" and 6" silicon wafer machinery exported to China from Silicon Valley in the 1990's. The design of the present production panels themselves are based on US panels from the 1990's.


The R&D for Suntech was done in Australia (until we got our latest denialist right wing nut job government removing domestic tariffs.)
Suntech was initially founded based on PV technology researched and developed at UNSW(University of New South Wales), where company founder Shi Zhengrong was a leading researcher.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/suntech ... ites-30225
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Re: US imposes hefty tariffs on Chinese solar

Unread postby Loki » Thu 18 Dec 2014, 21:27:47

Paulo1 wrote:re statement: "I mention this because because the primary materials in these panels are silicon and the aluminum, both of which are produced in electric arc furnaces powered by fossil fuels. Then there is heavy electric consumption in sawing. polishing, and infusing semiconductor junctions in the wafers."

Maybe these should be made in BC at Kitimat where they use hydro (Kemano) to run their aluminum smelter. Plus, we have site C dam just announced. We could build them here using renewable electricity at very reasonable energy rates. Of course, US panel producers would simply cry, "foul, your hydro is too cheap", and put tarrifs up. It's how you do business.

Yep, the tariffs on softwoods are similar to the Chinese solar situation. Government subsidization of the industry in Canada/China and dumping of products below cost in a concerted effort to undercut our domestic industries.

Also wouldn't hurt if Canada advanced its environmental protections beyond that of a Third World country. Be nice to compete on a level playing field.

As for hydro, not much "sustainable" about it. Just ask a salmon.
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Re: China and the solar industry (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 26 Jul 2015, 18:51:19

China 2020 Solar Energy Target = 200 Gigawatts (Rumor)

PV Magazine recently reported that China, as part of its 13th five-year plan, is considering a solar target of 200 GW by 2020. If you have been following recent reports, that’s the milestone globally installed solar PV capacity is expected to cross in the (very) near future.

In 2009, while drafting its 12th five-year plan, China had envisioned a solar goal of 5 GW. That too by 2015. And we all know how that went!

Following several rounds of revisions, the target for the 12th plan was finally hiked to 35 GW. However, by the end of Q1’15, China’s total cumulative solar power capacity had already reached 33.12 GW.

With the annual target for 2015 set at 17.8 GW, the question to ask is not whether China will meet its current five-year goal, but by how much it will exceed it.

China is expected to cross 45 GW — 20% higher than its national target — and overtake Germany (in terms of installed capacity) in the process by this year’s end.

Coming back to the 13th five-year plan, China’s National Energy Administration (NEA), which is the nodal government agency in the matters of energy policy, has chalked out a 100 GW target for solar PV by 2020.

However, it is widely speculated that when the plan is actually announced, this would be raised to an optimistic 200 GW.


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China and the New Energy Economy

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 01 Nov 2017, 12:03:51


There is an increasingly inescapable sense that an energy transition of enormous proportions is taking place. The number of 'bans' announced on Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles is growing, even if governments are placing them relatively far out on the political horizon. More and more car manufacturers are taking note and shifting R&D spending into Electric Vehicles (EVs), a move which has profound implications for the development curves, and thus future cost, of EVs versus ICE vehicles. In October, US automaker General Motors said that it would launch two new pure electric models in 2018 and a further 18 by 2023. Its competitor Ford announced the creation of a new internal team to "think big and move fast" in order to accelerate the electrification of its auto production. Both are some way behind their European counterparts. It is not hard to see why such


China and the New Energy Economy
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Thieves steal chunk of China’s new solar highway

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 10 Jan 2018, 21:10:00

Thieves in China have vandalised a newly opened solar highway, less than a week after the road was christened with much fanfare. The one-kilometre stretch of road in the eastern city of Jinan consists of solar panels under a layer of transparent concrete, allowing cars to drive over the photovoltaic cells. But just five days after it opened on 28 December, workers found a 1.8-metre section had been removed by thieves. Reports of the heist did not emerge until this week. Workers on the project suspected the burglars stole the panel in an attempt to duplicate the technology, since the materials themselves were inexpensive, according to local media. The concept of roads incorporating solar panels into the road has existed for years, but only recently have cities begun to build test projects. A solar bicycle path opened in Amsterdam in 2014 and a village


Thieves steal chunk of China’s new solar highway
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: China and the solar industry (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 10 Jan 2018, 21:51:11

Solar Freakin Roadways!!!

https://youtu.be/O0yn-xBjb9c
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