Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 09:27:53

DEFINITION of 'Treasury International Capital - TIC'
"Select groups of capital which are monitored with regards to their international movement. Treasury international capital is used as an economic indicator that tracks the flow of Treasury and agency securities, as well as corporate bonds and equities, into and out of the United States. TIC data is important to investors, especially with the increasing amount of foreign participation in the U.S. financial markets."


http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tre ... apital.asp

The problem with TIC data is that it has become evident in the last few years that much of it is reported through surrogate holders. The FED is known to have Belgium banks hold Treasuries for them. It is reported as securities held by Belgium, when in fact they are FED assets. As with all FED data it should be taken lightly at best. The FED is an unaudited private corporation owned by elite stockholders. Truth in lending laws have not yet filtered down to it.
Last edited by Tanada on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 20:46:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed broken quote
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 6195
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: VA USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 10:34:30

The FED is an unaudited private corporation owned by elite stockholders.


Good God, nothing could be further from the truth.

The FED is audited by the Government Accountability Office several times each year, their financial statements are audited annually by an outside auditor chosen by the Inspector Generals office, the office of the Inspector General conducts audits and criminal investigations related to FED operations and makes reports to the public on same, Reserve Bank financial statements are audited annually by independent sources and the FED regularly publishes its balance sheet information. In other words, this is as transparent as it gets.

The Board of Governors of the FED are not private but rather government appointed whereas the Fed Reserve Banks are more like private corporations. That being said the stock which is held by member banks does not give it the same control or rights as shareholders of normal common stocks in typical organizations. The stock is not transferable nor can it be sold. The only thing the banks gain is the vote on appointees to the Reserve Bank Directors
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6958
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 02:00:00

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby marmico » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 13:19:37

the FED has been talking about selling off treasuries for several years.


June 14, 2017
FOMC issues addendum to the Policy Normalization Principles and Plans
https://www.federalreserve.gov/newseven ... 70614c.htm
marmico
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1015
Joined: Mon 28 Jul 2014, 13:46:35

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby marmico » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 13:35:38

As with all FEDETP data it should be taken lightly at best.
marmico
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1015
Joined: Mon 28 Jul 2014, 13:46:35

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby creedoninmo » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 15:36:46

I don't know that there has ever been a world where there could be infinite debt stored as fiat money on computers. To some extent that does invalidate debt, but nothing lasts forever. Oil is not infinite and stored on computers and oil and currency are tied together. They will end together. The oil age is just ending differently than we would have thought.
creedoninmo
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun 15 Jan 2017, 09:52:20

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 16:05:03

Good God, nothing could be further from the truth.


The FED does its own audit, and reports the results. No other agency inside of, or outside of the US government ever touches the FED's books. What do you think Ron Paul has been trying to get done for the last 20 years; he has been trying to convince Congress to pass a bill to audit the FED. JFK tried it, but he ran into a bullet, and so did Robert his brother. There has been mountains of literature written about the FED. Why don't you educate yourself to it. Then take a look at the BIS if you want to see pure evil in the works.
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 6195
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: VA USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 16:12:41

creedoninmo wrote:I don't know that there has ever been a world where there could be infinite debt stored as fiat money on computers. To some extent that does invalidate debt, but nothing lasts forever. Oil is not infinite and stored on computers and oil and currency are tied together. They will end together. The oil age is just ending differently than we would have thought.

All we are doing with Debt really is chicanery, Stealing from the future for the sake of the present but as my signature states, we can pretend only for so long that economics is more important than biophysical limits and the environment
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10509
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 16:28:05

I don't know that there has ever been a world where there could be infinite debt stored as fiat money on computers.


A computer is nothing more than a high speed abacus. No smarter than the programer. No matter where you store debt based fiat it is still fiat. Currency backed by debt. When the debt defaults the money disappears. The central banks are now sitting on debt (which they call assets) that will soon not be able to be serviced. Anyone got $40 trillion to fill in for the unfunded liabilities of US pensions? The US has total debt of at least $180 trillion that is being compounded at 3 to 5% per year, and almost no growth to service that debt with. If the central banks stop printing for one day the cascading defaults would consume the entire world in a week. No algo is going to get us out of this situation.
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 6195
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: VA USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 17:23:27

The FED does its own audit, and reports the results. No other agency inside of, or outside of the US government ever touches the FED's books. What do you think Ron Paul has been trying to get done for the last 20 years; he has been trying to convince Congress to pass a bill to audit the FED.


As with most things you haven't a frigging clue what you are talking about but don't take my word for it:

you might think that legislation widely known as “Audit the Fed” would have something to do with auditing the Fed, in the conventional sense of reviewing the institution’s financial assets and liabilities, records, and operations. You’d be wrong. The Fed is already thoroughly audited in the usual sense, by an independent inspector general and by an outside accounting firm (currently, Deloitte and Touche), and the resulting financial reports are made public online. Every security owned by the Fed, up to the detail of the identifying CUSIP number, is also available online. Moreover, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), which does in-depth reviews and analyses (“audits” of a different type) of government activities at the request of Congress, has wide latitude to review Fed operations, including supervision and regulation as well as other functions. For example, as required by the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010, the GAO conducted reviews of the Fed’s emergency lending programs during the crisis and of the Fed’s governance structure. Since the financial crisis, the GAO has done some 70 reviews of aspects of Fed operations.

So what does Audit the Fed actually do? The principal effect of the bill would be to make meeting-by-meeting monetary policy decisions subject to Congressional review and, potentially, Congressional pressure. The bill would do this by repealing existing restrictions, imposed by Congress nearly forty years ago, on what the GAO can examine when reviewing the Fed. The most important such restriction blocks the GAO from reviewing “deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters,” as well as “discussion or communication among or between members of the Board and officers and employees” related to such deliberations. The repeal of the existing restrictions would accordingly allow the GAO to view all materials and transcripts related to a meeting of the Fed’s Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) at essentially anytime and require the GAO, at Congressional request, to provide recommendations on monetary policy, including potentially on individual FOMC interest-rate decisions.


so you are wrong...the FED is subject to external audit by external independent accounting firms, subject to public documentation of all audits and reviews and the piece that Rand Paul and others are pushing for has zip to do with actual external audits of the FED but rather trying to break the independence of the FED decisions on financial matters and make it subject to Congressional approval.
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6958
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 02:00:00

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 17:37:34

to break the independence of the FED decisions on financial matters and make it subject to Congressional approval.

And don't you think Rockdoc, that this is long overdue considering the importance and influence that Fed decisions have on US economic and fiscal matters?
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10509
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 18:03:51

Congressional oversight by politically motivated (perhaps corrupted?) elected officials would be no improvement.- Yes Pstarr. But at least it could be a step in the right direction from an Institution owned by Bankers not beholden not even nominally to anyone and secretly ironing out fiscal policies which have a bearing on all US citizens if not world citizens. Then we can begin to tackle political crony ism
Oh and incidentally those Bankers and Banking institutions being a big part of the corrupting influence
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10509
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby marmico » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 18:29:00

KPMG Independent Auditors’ Report signed March 8, 2017

https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthe ... mt2016.pdf

In our opinion, the combined financial statements referred to above present fairly, in all material respects, the
financial position of the Reserve Banks as of December 31, 2016 and 2015, and the results of its operations for
the years then ended, on the basis of accounting described in Note 3.
marmico
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1015
Joined: Mon 28 Jul 2014, 13:46:35

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 18:35:17

And don't you think Rockdoc, that this is long overdue considering the importance and influence that Fed decisions have on US economic and fiscal matters?


What I think on that matter is neither here nor there on my comment that shortonoil hadn't a frigging clue what he was talking about. That is why I posted what I did regarding the FED. As someone pointed out up thread it is pretty amazing how many people don't have a clue what roles the FED and Treasury actually perform.

That being said there is a reason the FED was kept independent of the government, this from Investopedia:

The primary justification for an independent Federal Reserve is the need to insulate it from short-term political pressures. Without a degree of autonomy, the Fed could be influenced by election-focused politicians into enacting an excessively expansionary monetary policy to lower unemployment in the short-term. This could lead to high inflation and fail to control unemployment over the long-term.
Advocates of autonomy argue that an independent Fed will better address long-term economic objectives. Independence can also make it easier to execute policies that are politically unpopular but serve a greater public interest


To my mind keeping the FED independent from the agenda of each and every President makes some sense.
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6958
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 02:00:00

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby shortonoil » Thu 17 Aug 2017, 08:43:28

What I think on that matter is neither here nor there on my comment that shortonoil hadn't a frigging clue what he was talking about.


That is a rather self righteous claim for an oil industry pimp. A take on the secrecy maintained by the FED can be seen here. Just Google "audit the FED" for about a million references.

Code: Select all
Currently the GAO is prohibited by law from auditing four areas of the Federal Reserve:
1. Transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or no private international financing organization;
2. Deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;
3. Transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or
4. a part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)–(3) of this subsection.


http://www.campaignforliberty.org/audit-fed/

It doesn't sound like the government has much oversight on the corporation that controls their currency; does it? Some claim that 30% of what the FED took from the American taxpayer to fund QE ended up going to prop up other foreign banks. That we will never know for sure because the GAO is not allowed to look at the FED's books to check. They are limited to the oversight of the FED's expenditures on paper clips, and toilet paper.

Why don' you try educating yourself a little on the creation and workings of the FED. This is a classic to get started with.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve"

Clueless, would be a little like the pot calling the kettle black, unless one had a vested interest in maintaining the Rothschilds hold on the world's wealth.
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 6195
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: VA USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 17 Aug 2017, 09:12:37

Clueless, would be a little like the pot calling the kettle black, unless one had a vested interest in maintaining the Rothschilds hold on the world's wealth. ----Yep they are just about the richest family on the entire planet amassing trillions of dollars.Oh and managing to place their Central Banks in almost every country
http://www.univverse.org/politics/only- ... tral-bank/
http://www.activistpost.com/2017/01/rot ... bined.html
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10509
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 17 Aug 2017, 10:23:53

Great way to demonstrate your credibility, guys. Keep it up. LOL

Image

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Gasoline consumption in US is falling fast but why?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 17 Aug 2017, 12:18:49

That is a rather self righteous claim for an oil industry pimp. A take on the secrecy maintained by the FED can be seen here. Just Google "audit the FED" for about a million references.


As I said your comment was that
“no other agency inside of, or outside of the US government ever touches the FED’s books. What do you think Ron Paul has been trying to get done for the last 20 years”


You confused external financial audit (which is done yearly, last few by Deloittes) with the ability of the government to have oversight on the FED policies which requires a change in legislation. Specifically the Transparency ACT which you confuse with Audit is intended to give the GAO the ability to have input on decisions or actions on monetary policy and interact directly with Members of the Board of the FED, And again you are trying to spin this as if you knew what you were talking about….clearly you didn’t.

Secrecy? WTF? The results of the annual financial audits of the FED are public documents, anyone can access them. All the securities that are owned by the FED are public information (they publish the CUSIP #), The Government Accountability Office (GAO) has done some 70 reviews of FED operations since the financial crisis which are published. As an example, the GAO in 2016 reviewed the FEDS stress tests which were released in a report available to all.

Some claim that 30% of what the FED took from the American taxpayer to fund QE ended up going to prop up other foreign banks. That we will never know for sure because the GAO is not allowed to look at the FED's books to check. They are limited to the oversight of the FED's expenditures on paper clips, and toilet paper. 


Shows up in the Deloitte and Touche (or other financial institution) yearly audit as transfers. Have you never seen an audit done…perhaps you should have a look at one of the FED audits and point out what is missing. And once again the GAO doesn't audit FED expenditures, it looks into policy and actions with the exception of monetary policy which was purposefully kept independent to avoid undue political influence.

Clueless, would be a little like the pot calling the kettle black, unless one had a vested interest in maintaining the Rothschilds hold on the world's wealth.


Ah, here we go. Why am I not surprised that someone who thinks 911 was a government conspiracy also thinks the world is run by some elite group? Really adds credibility to that ETP nonsense that’s for sure. First you claim that the FED prints money, then you claim they are not subject to external audit, then you claim the GAO has zero ability to review FED procedures and you also claim it is all somehow secret. And then you have the temerity to tell me to educate myself on the FED? Jesus wept. :roll:
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6958
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 02:00:00

Previous

Return to Peak oil studies, reports & models

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests