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The U.S., energy producing superpower

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 13:38:40

Revi wrote:This whole system is running on debt. Debt worked when there was an increasing supply of stuff, but without growth in the energy supply it is just borrowing from a future that doesn't exist...


????

There's been massive growth in the energy supply in the US over the last 10 years. The equivalent of another Saudi Arabia of oil has been made accessible through fracking TOS in the Permian basin and other areas.

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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 14:34:50

pstarr wrote:Among the world's consumers only a few entitled wealthy Americans can afford $70 tight shale. Sadly that won't prop up the global economy.


It's working so far...and keeping prices at the pump well within people's comfort-zones.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 15:30:33

"Among the world's consumers only a few entitled wealthy Americans can afford $70 tight shale."

Well, let's see how the numbers add up. The price of oil exceeded $70/bbl (sometimes much higher) from July 2007 to Oct 2008. And then from Aug 2009 to Nov 2014. During those periods US drivers burned 118 BILLIONS OF GALLONS OF GASOLINE. And a sh*t load of diesel, propane and other refinery products.

So: "...only a few entitled wealthy Americans can afford $70 tight shale". I gather we have a vastly different idea of how many "a few" represents. Or maybe you start labeling folks as "wealthy" once they start making $20k per year or more. Some might be excited to hear their new status. LOL.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 17:05:57

The Ponzi finance is coming to an end. The Minsky moment when it collapses is coming. All those over valued assets, inflated by the FED's printed money will bust and the debt will turn toxic. Bankruptcies and defaults will bring down the banks in a massive financial meltdown. The central banks will lose control of the situation and there will be total chaos.

It is coming. No one just knows the exact timing of the event.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 17:45:06

pstarr wrote:RM, you made my point talking only about American . . . the wealthiest people in the world. There are another 6.6 billion who don't share you data and opinions.


Demand dearth again. You mean the starving Africans with their swolen bellies can't afford gas? They also can't afford a car and can't access running water, so why fixate on gasoline?

pstarr wrote:Oil consumption in Italy, Spain, Greece and many other European countries remains at recessionary level


Because they are in a recession, not because of peak-oil.

You keep restating your demand-dearth narrative ad nauseum but it makes no sense.

According to your logic even back in the late 90s when we were "drowning in oil" there was a "demand dearth" because you can point to some poor people who aren't going on road trips in cars. Makes no sense at all. There are haves and have-nots in this world. Always have been, always will be. It is not a consequence of a shortage of oil.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 17:47:18

Yoshua wrote:It is coming. No one just knows the exact timing of the event.


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CHEERS!
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 18:11:48

asg70 wrote:
pstarr wrote:Among the world's consumers only a few entitled wealthy Americans can afford $70 tight shale. Sadly that won't prop up the global economy.


It's working so far...and keeping prices at the pump well within people's comfort-zones.


Paid $1.91/gal this morning in Tennessee on my way to Shiloh. Consequences of pstarrs claimed peak oil a decade in....please Mr pstarr, can we please have some more!
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 18:14:27

Plantagenet wrote:
Yoshua wrote:It is coming. No one just knows the exact timing of the event.


Image
CHEERS!


Pstarr's online pix don't show him wearing a suit, and that guy needs a beer in his hand a clear cutting event going on nearby to represent the website clown better. But the symbology is spot on!
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ralfy » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 20:56:50

ROCKMAN wrote:"Among the world's consumers only a few entitled wealthy Americans can afford $70 tight shale."

Well, let's see how the numbers add up. The price of oil exceeded $70/bbl (sometimes much higher) from July 2007 to Oct 2008. And then from Aug 2009 to Nov 2014. During those periods US drivers burned 118 BILLIONS OF GALLONS OF GASOLINE. And a sh*t load of diesel, propane and other refinery products.

So: "...only a few entitled wealthy Americans can afford $70 tight shale". I gather we have a vastly different idea of how many "a few" represents. Or maybe you start labeling folks as "wealthy" once they start making $20k per year or more. Some might be excited to hear their new status. LOL.


About world consumers, only a fraction of people earns more than $10 daily. And oil companies, like many other businesses, need more consumers worldwide to spend more.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 21:45:00

ralfy wrote:About world consumers, only a fraction of people earns more than $10 daily.


Good thing that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But I do understand that your LATOC learning never covered your high priest being full of baloney.

ralfy wrote:And oil companies, like many other businesses, need more consumers worldwide to spend more.


Oil companies are quite happy with the kind donations you, like every other malthusian believer, make on a regular basis with your hard earned income, regardless of the silly things you post on topics you know nothing about.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 22:38:26

pstarr - "Oil consumption in Italy, Spain, Greece and many other European countries remains at recessionary level". Oil consumption in Europr increased from 12.5 million bopd to 20 million bopd between 1990 and 1992. From then thru 2012 it pretty much plateaued around 18-19 million bopd. Did start a slight downward towards the end of that period.

http://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?region=eu&

And found this fairly obvious graphic: seem rather flat European oil consumption between 2000 and 2015. And that's despite periods of oil well above $100/bbl.

https://yearbook.enerdata.net/oil-consumption.html

You might want to toss your sources out here lest everyone thinks you're just making up sh*t yourself. LOL.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 23:41:20

ROCKMAN wrote:You might want to toss your sources out here lest everyone thinks you're just making up sh*t yourself. LOL.


It isn't a source problem Rockman. He is just trolling because what is his alternative...admit he was as clueless as everyone was telling him even a decade ago? His fragile self esteem can't take it, so he manufactures the alternate universe where he was right, peak oil happened, and all the facts and figures and history that has happened since, he just pretends it didn't happen.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 03:39:11

The Euro Crisis

Does anyone remember the euro crisis which took place when oil was $100 per barrel ? The euro crisis is on going and actually getting worse. There is no fix to the problem. The ECB is printing €1T a year and keeping the interest rate at Zero. The economy is still dying. The European periphery has already collapsed.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby marmico » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 04:37:10

Those frugal Europeans. They consume 15% less petroleum than they did in 2000.

Image

Those spendthrift Americans. They consume the same amount of petroleum as they did in 2000.

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/mo ... ec3_15.pdf

Ooops. I guess the increase in petroleum consumption is coming from somewhere else other than the EU and US.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 05:41:55

Marm - You need to be careful when you see "supplied". Not positive about your link but I think about 5 million bbls per day is being SUPPLIED to foreign buyers. And a good bit goes to Europe.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_e ... blpd_a.htm
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 06:48:18

The Petrostate's in the Middle East are shipping out oil and money. A weird situation. How long can they go on ? When they run out of money they will turn into Venezuela.

Europe is still doing fairly well... despite the euro crisis... and the Muslim refugee flood that is spreading hiv, syphilis, tbc, crime, rape and terrorism throughout Europe.

In North Africa some 30 million people are starving, 6 million are ready to cross the Mediterranean. They can't afford the oil and have about 2 hours of electricity per day.

The US should hold on to the Petrodollar. The euro is almost as good as the dollar... without it we would consume a lot less oil than we do today... and Southern Europe would look a lot more like North Africa.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 09:13:33

pstarr wrote:They show that Europe oil consumption is collapsing. Not due to substitution, nor increasing efficiency.


Amy Jaffe, you know, a real energy expert, makes the case for peaking global oil demand far better than you and even better, she lives in this reality.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-wo ... 1430881507

And while comics and cartoons and pretty pictures are all you are capable of understanding, note that she makes the case for peak demand using mostly words, because, you know, she wasn't raised on comic books, or trained at the Stoner Instructional Complex.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 09:17:59

Yoshua wrote:The Euro Crisis

Does anyone remember the euro crisis which took place when oil was $100 per barrel ?


Real prices or nominal? Because the Euro didn't exist back when $100 real oil prices were pervasive during the late 1800's, nor during the 1970's. So you must mean, during some cherry picked nominal time frame exercise?

Also, the crisis about the Euro isn't about oil, it is about political integration, and how it isn't working in Europe. And this is a peak oil site, so maybe you would be better off at one of those conspiracy ones, spinning this tale? And better yet, this thread is about America the world's energy producing superpower, not Europe.

So it does make sense, you and "he who enjoys a good forest clear cutting with his beer" wanting to change the subject....the point of this thread not being in dispute, even in pstarrs alternate reality.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby marmico » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 09:19:04

The EIA doesn't directly measure consumption. It is a residual calculation called "product supplied".

Products Supplied Approximately represents consumption of petroleum products because it measures the disappearance of these products from primary sources, i.e., refineries, natural gas processing plants, blending plants, pipelines, and bulk terminals. In general, product supplied of each product in any given period is computed as follows: field production, plus renewable fuels and oxygenate plant net production, plus refinery and blender net production, plus imports, plus net receipts, plus adjustments, minus stock change, minus refinery and blender net inputs, minus exports.



https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pe ... bldef2.asp
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 13 Jun 2017, 09:21:28

marmico wrote:https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/mo ... ec3_15.pdf

Ooops. I guess the increase in petroleum consumption is coming from somewhere else other than the EU and US.


Thanks once again to those tax payer funded energy analysts for having this one covered, and proving yet again that some folks just don't get the facts of the matter. Not you marmico, you had it pegged exactly right.

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